Mercedes L 4500

[Stef N.]

Brilliant work as always Paul. Shame about the screen. At least it's not too tricky a shape to replicate. All the best.👍

[Jochen Barett]

1 hour ago, Lummox said:

+++

Before I commit to painting and constructing the cab components, I need to consider what preparation work my be necessary for the windscreen replacement. I will definitely need to replace the windscreen (and the back window for that matter) as there is an odd mould flaw which looks like a hair running through the middle of the 'glass'. The transparencies are quite thick too, which although clear, do cause severe distortions:

 

+++

As ever, any comments, suggestions, ideas, etc. gratefully accepted. Cheers, and thanks for looking,

Paul.

 

A very clear material I like is Vivak (PET-G). Unfortunately the thinnest available is 0,5mm (giving "17,5mm armored glass" on a 1/35th model converted in reverse, still a bit thick in 1/24th) but it really is clear and glass-like. (Maybe you can get away with the thickness)

 

Googeling "Mercedes L 4500 Windschutzscheibe" I came across another modeller's solution (but I'm not really convinced): https://www.facebook.com/Zvezda.ModelKits/photos/pcb.822206091215530/822205937882212/?type=3&theater

[Lazy Modeller]

Just wondering...the cheap glass covers for the cell phones could be used for that?

Cheers

LM

[Kelscale]

That fuel tank and battery are looking good.

 

Doesn't one of the Voyager sets come with a brass screen surround and tiliting brackets?

 

As for good scale window plastic.  Buy a Tesco/Sainsbury's/Waitrose cheesecake. The dividing partition is clear plastic and is perfect material.  You also get a nice bonus cake 👍

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Kelscale

[Ned]

6 hours ago, Lummox said:

Ever resourceful I see Andrew, but I think I may find a home for the tachograph in my Maiale human torpedo build going on over in Maritime. Happily I reckon it's just about the right size to be recycled as a compass, which should please Greta.

 

There's absolutely no reason for you to apologise Jochen. You've been an invaluable font of information throughout this build. 👍

 

It's been quite some time since the last update (doesn't time fly!) Unfortunately quality bench time has been as rare as hen's teeth, but I do have some minor progress to report. I'm also taking the opportunity to ask for advice from you smart, charming and highly attractive people, but more on that later...

 

Firstly, the troublesome instrument binnacle has been reconstructed with all the various knobs and switches. There will just about be enough room for the film representing the instrument faces to be inserted behind the binnacle following painting:

 

The fuel tank has been finished, with the filler cap sitting on top as if removed during a refuel stop:

 

The battery has also been completed, this being a flight of fancy as I haven't a clue what the battery may have looked like on a L4500:

 

The fuel tank and battery will 'live' under the seat something like the arrangement below. It's not too clear here, but I've also attempted to introduce some shallow depressions into the seat back where driver and passenger backs and shoulders will have rubbed/worn/stressed the seat. Not sure how accurate this kind of wear is to be honest, but it does temper the pristine 'arrow straight' look of the original seat:

 

And that brings things up to date. We're getting perilously close to paint, but there is one thing I'd like to run past you if I may...?

 

Before I commit to painting and constructing the cab components, I need to consider what preparation work my be necessary for the windscreen replacement. I will definitely need to replace the windscreen (and the back window for that matter) as there is an odd mould flaw which looks like a hair running through the middle of the 'glass'. The transparencies are quite thick too, which although clear, do cause severe distortions:

 

While mulling over how best to replace the windscreen, I came across these excellent illustrations which seem to suggest that the windscreen could open by being tilted forwards:

 

Looks interesting I thought, let's see if I can find any supporting references for an opening windscreen. Easier said than done, but I did mange to find a couple of examples, the first being a poor quality still from a film (I think, which would not be the most reliable of sources), the second being a period shot of a Maultier (which is more promising evidence): 

 

Now I quite fancy going for a tilting windscreen, but don't really know whether they were standard fit in any way, or indeed how the things worked!

I assume there must be some kind of hinge at the top of the windscreen, but I'm unsure what the opening/closing latches may have looked like or operated. Might it have been as simple as this Beetle example, there being a couple of sliding brackets that you pushed forwards to open the windscreen...?

 

 

As ever, any comments, suggestions, ideas, etc. gratefully accepted. Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

Those illustrations do look just like the opening windows that early VW vans had, called Safari windows, starting from the mid 50s so not beyond the possibilities of wartime. A slotted bar with a thumbscrew to tighten and hold them in place, and a catch in the bottom corner to lock them shut. That Beetle has been modified, probably with the bits from a van. Google 'Type 2 safari windows' for more pics. Hingeing the windscreen wipers might not be easy though...

[Pig of the Week]

Certainly opening windscreens were a common enough thing in the 30s on cars, so makes perfect sense, especially for a military vehicle.....I'd agree with a simple slotted bar at each side to secure/adjust it's tilt..

[Lummox]

20 hours ago, Stef N. said:

Brilliant work as always Paul. Shame about the screen. At least it's not too tricky a shape to replicate. All the best.

Cheers Stef. You're right about the shape being easy enough to replicate, especially as I have the kit version as a ready made template. Both the windscreen and the rear window are totally flat which simplifies things no end.

 

20 hours ago, Jochen Barett said:

A very clear material I like is Vivak (PET-G). Unfortunately the thinnest available is 0,5mm (giving "17,5mm armored glass" on a 1/35th model converted in reverse, still a bit thick in 1/24th) but it really is clear and glass-like. (Maybe you can get away with the thickness)

 

Googeling "Mercedes L 4500 Windschutzscheibe" I came across another modeller's solution (but I'm not really convinced): https://www.facebook.com/Zvezda.ModelKits/photos/pcb.822206091215530/822205937882212/?type=3&theater

Many thanks Jochen for taking the time to search around. I think I'll reserve judgement on the other modeller's solution until I've had a go myself. 

The Vivak (PET-G) looks interesting, but I'll initially run with some Evergreen sheets which I have used in the past with good results. We're still in 'armoured glass' territory with 0.25mm, but it looks OK in situ:

 

20 hours ago, Lazy Modeller said:

Just wondering...the cheap glass covers for the cell phones could be used for that?

Cheers

LM

Thank you Lazy M, that's an interesting suggestion too. Definitely one to keep in mind if things don't go to plan.

 

18 hours ago, Kelscale said:

That fuel tank and battery are looking good.

 

Doesn't one of the Voyager sets come with a brass screen surround and tiliting brackets?

 

As for good scale window plastic.  Buy a Tesco/Sainsbury's/Waitrose cheesecake. The dividing partition is clear plastic and is perfect material.  You also get a nice bonus cake

Cheers Mr K, and another glazing option with food thrown in to boot - what's not to like!

The Voyager set does indeed come with a surround which is what I plan to use as the basis for the new windscreen. Strangely the surround isn't mentioned in the instructions in any way, this also being the case in the equivalent etch set for the Maultier. There are other 'mystery' items on the frets that have escaped the attention of Voyager's authors, but sadly none of the bonus items appear to be tilt mechanisms:

 

16 hours ago, Ned said:

Those illustrations do look just like the opening windows that early VW vans had, called Safari windows, starting from the mid 50s so not beyond the possibilities of wartime. A slotted bar with a thumbscrew to tighten and hold them in place, and a catch in the bottom corner to lock them shut. That Beetle has been modified, probably with the bits from a van. Google 'Type 2 safari windows' for more pics. Hingeing the windscreen wipers might not be easy though...

Many thanks for the feedback and the search hint Ned. I seem to be finding mostly 'splitty' camper vans rather than full screen, but I get what you mean about the slotted bar and thumbscrew:

 

As for the wipers, I naively assumed that the arm would hinge in a similar way to as they do on modern vehicles (although I may well be missing something)?

 

8 hours ago, Pig of the Week said:

Certainly opening windscreens were a common enough thing in the 30s on cars, so makes perfect sense, especially for a military vehicle.....I'd agree with a simple slotted bar at each side to secure/adjust it's tilt..

Cheers Mr P. Blowing up the image of the Maultier, I think I can just see something in the blurriness that could perhaps be the slotted bar - maybe?

 

Finally a big thank you to everyone for the feedback - it is very much appreciated.

 

Paul.

[Jochen Barett]

On 16/11/2021 at 17:42, Lummox said:

+++

The Vivak (PET-G) looks interesting, but I'll initially run with some Evergreen sheets which I have used in the past with good results. We're still in 'armoured glass' territory with 0.25mm, but it looks OK in situ:

+++

Paul.

0,25mm x 35 is giving 8,75mm "real world thickness", that shouldn't be too bad. I think it will even be OK for rolled down door windows (where you may see the edge).

(do get some Vivak anyway to see how clear it is and do get some of that Tesco/Sainsbury's/Waitrose cheesecake it sounds promising!)

 

In case anybody objects 8,75mm glass: "Zat's Mercedes Glas, zey did everyssing a little sturdier."

 

The split window L4500 shown before ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/L_4500_Innenraum.jpg ) has a more elaborate screen tilt mechanism. We will surely find more pics or videos of the real thing as soon as you have completed, painted, decaled, and weathered your solution and will let you know.

[Pig of the Week]

Interesting to see that windscreen opening mechanism in Jochen's link.. I'd perhaps be tempted to go for that one as there's actual photo evidence at least, unless there's more pics turn up showing something different of course !

[diablo rsv]

I used some microscope cover slips to replace the plastic windows on my B-Type Battle bus build. They are pretty cheap and you get loads in a box. You can see how I used them HERE towards the bottom of the page. They will only work for flat glass though.

 

Wayne

 

[Lummox]

On 11/17/2021 at 7:25 PM, Jochen Barett said:

The split window L4500 shown before ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/L_4500_Innenraum.jpg ) has a more elaborate screen tilt mechanism. We will surely find more pics or videos of the real thing as soon as you have completed, painted, decaled, and weathered your solution and will let you know.

I noticed the screen tilt arrangement in the image you linked Jochen. I must admit I discounted it as an option due to that particular example appearing to be a very different beast to a 'standard' L4500 (not just the split window, but also the wipers moving from the cab roof to the bottom of the windscreen, the 'plank' dashboard, etc.) The whole cab seem to be substantially larger than the norm (note the position of the steering wheel and pedals). I'm wondering about the cap on the seat and whether this may give some clue as to why the cab is so different. Might it be something like a firetruck conversion?

 

On 11/18/2021 at 5:27 PM, Pig of the Week said:

Interesting to see that windscreen opening mechanism in Jochen's link.. I'd perhaps be tempted to go for that one as there's actual photo evidence at least, unless there's more pics turn up showing something different of course !

I'd agree that photo evidence is king Mr P, but as mentioned above, I'm not convinced that this particular photo is representative of what I'm building. I may well be wrong though (I frequently am).

 

On 11/18/2021 at 7:34 PM, diablo rsv said:

I used some microscope cover slips to replace the plastic windows on my B-Type Battle bus build. They are pretty cheap and you get loads in a box. You can see how I used them HERE towards the bottom of the page. They will only work for flat glass though.

Your representation of glass in your battle bus is fantastic Wayne - extremely realistic. Thanks for posting the link. 👍

 

I made a start on the windscreen, in that I soldered sections of brass tube onto the etch surround to represent a hinge. I planned to make the hinge workable, but solder went where solder wasn't supposed to go, so a fixed windscreen it is:

 

One of my (many) failings is that I get too easily distracted. Instead of focusing on the windscreen, I found myself looking at the cab door latch housing things:

 

The housings are quite evident, but are totally missing in the kit. No matter, a few swipes of a scalpel, attach some scraps of suitable spare etch, and we have housings:

 

My next distraction were the trafficators (I didn't know what these were called until @Kelscale happened to mention them in his L4500 & trailer masterclass). Voyager provide etch replacements for the kit offerings:

Looking through references there appears to be several trafficator variations, the kit and etch representations being closest to these examples. Note the wire leading out of the cab body into the bottom of the trafficator (I must remember to include this):

 

I made a couple of modifications when building the etch; namely drilling a hole in the mounting bracket so it may be pinned to the cab, and removing the plate at the bottom of the trafficator as photos seem to suggest it was open (and the wire has to go somewhere!):

 

I haven't yet fixed the semaphore indicators so allowing the trafficators to be shown in the 'on' or 'off' position. I quite fancy showing one of then 'on', but as I plan to have the L4500 parked I'm not sure whether the trafficator would remain 'on' when the engine is switched off...?

 

The Voyager instructions look to be incorrect as I suspect they'd have you insert the semaphore indicators upside-down (as per the left in the image). I reckon that the indicators should be as per the right in the image, similar to the Lucas example. I've no photographic evidence to confirm this though:

 

I'm also unsure about the size of the etch trafficators, they being much bigger than the kit versions. I don't have a suitable L4500 'head on' shot to confirm one way or the other, but I suspect the kit version may be a tad undersized, and the etch version too 'jug-eared':

 

I'm committed to using the etch though as I've sacrificed the kit versions to use as a base to attach the etch brackets. Nothing is attached here, I'm just preparing the bases prior to construction of the cab. The plan if for the trafficators to be added much later when they have a chance of surviving clumsy fingers:

 

That's it for now. Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

[Kelscale]

Shame about the screen. It would have been cool to have it tilted. Good work on the door latches and good spot on the trafficator cables, I never noticed them before.

 

TBH looking at up close pics of the kit trafficators  they really do stand out in close up pics as a bad representation. I don't have any etch one's in the stash but I think I need to find a solution to making them look more authentic.

 

 

[vytautas]

Great as always.

Thanks for the information about the trafficators, I find it very helpful.

 

Vytautas

 

 

[Pig of the Week]

I remember as a kid the older morris minors having the trafficator type indicators, I bet they got busted pretty frequently !

[Bullbasket]

Hi Paul. Just catching up with a load of the builds on here. Great work as always. One thing that does strike me as a little strange. Looking at those photos which you posted of the real thing, the kit item appears (to me anyway) to be more akin to the real one than the etched brass one. Just an observation.

 

John.

[NIK122]

Hi Paul. Really enjoying following all of your work on this project. I don't know if it is too late but here is an image of the mechanism for opening part of the Sd.kfz 9 windscreen. Its possibly what's hidden behind the pillar of your reference photo. Looking forward to your next post

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by NIK122

[Lummox]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:13 AM, Kelscale said:

Shame about the screen. It would have been cool to have it tilted. Good work on the door latches and good spot on the trafficator cables, I never noticed them before.

 

TBH looking at up close pics of the kit trafficators  they really do stand out in close up pics as a bad representation. I don't have any etch one's in the stash but I think I need to find a solution to making them look more authentic.

Thanks Los. The windscreen will still be tilted (more of which later) but without a 'working' hinge (probably a crazy idea in the first place to be honest!) Your solution to paint a grey stripe on your trafficators has worked really well - sometimes the simple solutions are the best. 👍

 

On 11/24/2021 at 6:51 AM, vytautas said:

Great as always.

Thanks for the information about the trafficators, I find it very helpful.

Cheers Vytautus. I started to worry that I was a bit 'strange' in enjoying to learn about the traffictors, so it's reassuring to find I'm not the only strange person around. 

 

On 11/24/2021 at 8:49 AM, Pig of the Week said:

I remember as a kid the older morris minors having the trafficator type indicators, I bet they got busted pretty frequently !

They'd be nicely at shoulder height on good old Moggy Minors so likely did take some hammer Mr P. Quite a bit higher on the L 4500 though so probably a tad safer, unless Shaq O'Neil happens along! 

 

On 11/25/2021 at 10:46 AM, Bullbasket said:

Hi Paul. Just catching up with a load of the builds on here. Great work as always. One thing that does strike me as a little strange. Looking at those photos which you posted of the real thing, the kit item appears (to me anyway) to be more akin to the real one than the etched brass one. Just an observation.

Thanks John. I agree with you that the etch trafficators don't look very much like the real thing, which is something that has been bothering me. I've been mulling over what to do about this and have come up with a kind of compromise (more of which later).

 

On 11/29/2021 at 7:22 PM, NIK122 said:

Hi Paul. Really enjoying following all of your work on this project. I don't know if it is too late but here is an image of the mechanism for opening part of the Sd.kfz 9 windscreen. Its possibly what's hidden behind the pillar of your reference photo. Looking forward to your next post

Cheers Nik, I appreciate your kind comments. Thanks for the Sd,Kfz. 9 picture too - very interesting, and certainly not too late, in fact just about perfect timing! 👍

 

 

Right, first things first, a loose end to tie up. A while ago @Jochen Barett kindly posted a cab interior picture which I thought was strange and 'non standard'. Coincidentally I stumbled across an interesting site on fire trucks based on the L 4500 chassis. One of the examples appeared to tally with the odd cab interior picture (split screen, bottom wiper location, wide cab, and the 'how on earth did I miss that' spotlight thing):

 

Here's a fire-truck with the standard cab for comparison (note the full screen, top wiper position and slim cab). I reckon this would make a fantastic scratch build project, but I mustn't get tempted, no I really mustn't:

 

Moving on, John mentioned that the etch trafficators don't much look like the real thing, and he is bang on, certainly with respect to the brackets. Voyager have been a bit too cute in attempting to cater for two trafficator variants using the same etch. The instructions indicate that the bracket (B17) merely has to be flipped to produce either the '\/' (top/right option) or '/\' (bottom/left) variant. Unfortunately in reality it's not that simple. For the '\/' variant, the etch housing is OK but the simple bent bracket is totally wrong. For the '/\' variant, the simple bent bracket is OK but the housing is wrong (it being more of a simple rectangular box). So, in attempting to provide both variants Voyager have, in effect, provided neither:

 

What to do? Well I thought I'd have a go at manufacturing replacement brackets, which was very fiddly, with a disappointing end result (being too crude and chunky in my mind):

 

So I was left with a compromise of leaving the bracket alone but enhancing the cab attachment point to more resemble the real thing. You'll see from this shot that I've attached the cab roof to the cab back, where the fit was excellent needing only the slightest smear of filler. The door fit is very good too, which is reassuring even though I'll probably have both doors open:

 

It was about at this point that I noticed that the attachment point on the kit looked to be much lower than on my 'go to' reference picture. 'Oh bother', I said (or something similar ), but thought I'd check further references before attacking things with a scalpel. Strangely, there appeared to have been variations on the attachment point location, some being around 2/3 up the window, others 1/3. The cable exit hole however, looks to have been pretty much at the same point:

 

We have the low attachment point, so all is good. Phew!

Here's what the compromise looks like with the trafficator in place (nothing is fixed here pending paint). I don't see how to improve this any further, so I'm afraid this is about as good as it's going to get:

 

Finally, news on the windscreen replacement, in that we have a proof of concept! It's just tacked on at the moment to see what it looks like, it being nice and clear and suitably to scale (perhaps a bit too thin if anything?):

 

 

Looks pretty good doesn't it? Well yes, and no. In a certain light and at a certain angle you see these bubbles. I'm kicking myself as this is self inflicted, being due to the Klear/Future I brushed on (an old trick used on aircraft canopies to give a glassy look). I'll see what it's like in better natural light (if we ever see the sun again!) before I decide whether I'll need to drum up some mojo to strip it back and start again:

 

And that's things up to date. Cheers, thanks for looking and thanks for the feedback,

 

Paul.

[Pig of the Week]

I'm wondering if in "active service" the trafficators sometimes got removed and stashed to avoid the inevitable breakage.. just leaving the bracket in place ? Any wartime around pics to illustrate?

What you've done looks great anyway 👍...does the unit stick out a bit more on your version than the real thing pics tho ?

[Bullbasket]

I like the compromise with the trafficators Paul. They're certainly better looking than the etched ones. Nice work.

 

John.

[Lummox]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:02 AM, Bullbasket said:

I like the compromise with the trafficators Paul. They're certainly better looking than the etched ones. Nice work.

Cheers John. 👍

 

On 12/14/2021 at 8:35 AM, Pig of the Week said:

I'm wondering if in "active service" the trafficators sometimes got removed and stashed to avoid the inevitable breakage.. just leaving the bracket in place ? Any wartime around pics to illustrate?

What you've done looks great anyway 👍...does the unit stick out a bit more on your version than the real thing pics tho ?

Thanks Mr P. I've not seen any examples of the trafficators removed just leaving the attachment brackets, although there are a few cases of nothing there whatsoever. It's an interesting point you make about them being a bit sticky-outy as I've thought the same thing. They certainly look to protrude more than examples seem in photos, but I'm not sure if it's camera angles and perspective - that what I keep telling myself anyway.

 

The trafficators in this example look to be quite pronounced, although this is a L 6500 (I think) so may well not be representative. As an aside it's an interesting load being carried here, don't really know what those things are - searchlights maybe? :

 

Could really do with a period head-on shot but I haven't managed to find one. The best I could come up with is this extant example where I've tried to mimic the photo angle. I don't think there's much difference in sticky-outiness to be honest?:

 

Ultimately the raison d'etre of trafficators is that the semaphore signal needs to be visible to other road users, so the unit needs to protrude enough to provide clear sight for following vehicles. Here's an impatient Kubelwagen drivers eye view when attempting an overtake maneuver. I'd say just about right protuberance?:

 

I'm glad that the question was asked as taking these pictures has highlighted an issue that would have been really annoying further down the line. Let's see if the eagle eyed among you can spot the problem:

 

Spotted it yet? Yup, that's right, the stored tilt supports interfere with the trafficators. It's only a mm or so, but it's enough to spoil your day.: 

 

Hey ho, better to find out now than during final assembly when everything is painted. I suspect that the etch tilt support holders are to blame - you do wonder sometimes whether all this etch malarkey is worth the grief.  

 

Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

[vytautas]

25 minutes ago, Lummox said:

It's only a mm or so, but it's enough to spoil your day.: 

Compared to what you have already done, I think you will definitely solve this problem.
Even with this problem, everything looks fantastically good.

 

Vytautas

[Pig of the Week]

The trafficators certainly look about right as seen from the "car behind" point of view as you say .

The things on the back of the orig. pic look like posh cement mixers !!!

Some kind of searchlight or related anti aircraft kit would seem the most likely, though for serious AA kit I'd maybe expect it to be a Luftwaffe truck and crew rather than Heer, but no doubt the army had it's own anti aircraft capability.

As for all the photo etch malarkey, it's looking really stunning mate 👍

Edited December 15, 2021 by Pig of the Week
Spelling!

[Jochen Barett]

Interesting payload (I have no idea what it is and why they load Anhänger (trailer(s) onto the Ladefläche (flat bed)) and even more "interesting" google results for "WH 142893":

https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/zvezda-3596-cargo-truck-l-4500-a--106619

"Mercedes-Benz L 4500

German Heavy Cargo Truck L4500A

Wehrmacht Heer (German Army 1935-1945)

WH-168543
World War 2
Base German yellow, green brown patches

WH-142893
1942 World War 2 - Kharkov
German grey"

[Jochen Barett]

A few days ago you showed us

 

 

and

 

 

so in a way my clowded mole eyes could come to the conclusion we have three smaller Spriegel (tarp hoops) (stored "inside") and two taller Spriegel (stored "outside" / over the smaller ones), thus using a length of three Spriegel width for the Spriegel stowage boxes in total rather than five Spriegel width.

 

The other idea would be to check the diameter of the real life Spriegel and calculate 1/35 the resulting thickness, here 1/10th of a millimeter, there 1/10th of a millimeter and all of a sudden ...

 

There is no doubt what https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/profile/22071-totally-mad-olivier/  would do.

[Lummox]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:12 PM, vytautas said:

Compared to what you have already done, I think you will definitely solve this problem.
Even with this problem, everything looks fantastically good.

Many thanks for your kind words and your vote of confidence Vytautas. They do say there's no such thing as problems, just challenges and opportunities.

 

On 12/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, Pig of the Week said:

The things on the back of the orig. pic look like posh cement mixers !!!

They do look like cement mixers Mr P now you mention it. They must be on their way to build an extension to the Führerbunker

 

On 12/16/2021 at 8:10 PM, Jochen Barett said:

Interesting payload (I have no idea what it is and why they load Anhänger (trailer(s) onto the Ladefläche (flat bed))

That is a good point Jochen, why have they loaded the trailer onto the flat-bed rather than just tow it? It reminds me of something like this:

 

On 12/16/2021 at 8:10 PM, Jochen Barett said:

and even more "interesting" google results for "WH 142893"

Another good spot Jochen. Zvezda do indeed provide a option for 'WH 142893' this supposedly being a 64th infantry division L4500:

 

The pictured truck is most definitely not a L4500 though, it apparently being a L3750 (see pg 48 entry here). The L3750 is quite different (as can be seen in this comparison) so I don't know how Zvezda could make such an error (assuming that the license plates weren't reallocated to different vehicles over time?):

 

On 12/17/2021 at 1:03 PM, Jochen Barett said:

so in a way my clowded mole eyes could come to the conclusion we have three smaller Spriegel (tarp hoops) (stored "inside") and two taller Spriegel (stored "outside" / over the smaller ones), thus using a length of three Spriegel width for the Spriegel stowage boxes in total rather than five Spriegel width.

I'm with you 100% on this Jochen. The problem stems from the etch Spriegel holders being narrower and longer than the kit equivalents. There is a mm or so difference in length (hmmmm, that sounds familiar!): 

 

The narrowness of the etch holders only allow one row of Spriegels, but if we switch to use the kit equivalents we can achieve the two rows of three and two as you describe:

 

It's clear that the route forward is to dump the etch holders. The only question is whether I attempt to manufacture new holders of the correct size, or just use the kit versions (which may well be OK after a touch of thinning). Two steps forward, one step back (as Totally Mad Olivier may well say).

 

Cheers, thanks for the input, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.