Mercedes L 4500

[vytautas]

The engine looks fantastic!

If it does not start from half a turn, only the battery is to blame 

 

Vytautas

[Lummox]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:07 PM, vytautas said:

The engine looks fantastic!

If it does not start from half a turn, only the battery is to blame 

Thanks for the kind comments vytautas - guess that means I'll have to start work on the battery soon

 

 

First things first, remember the underneath of that seat a while back? Well it's had a coat of paint...

 

And a reminder of how it may eventually look in situ (viewed obliquely through open cab doors)...

 

 

And now more stuff on the engine (just for a change ). The fuel injector nozzles and pipework have been tidied up and painted. I've also attempted to add the low pressure pipe from the nozzles back to the fuel injector pump for recycling unused fuel (as @Ned kindly explained in an earlier post)...

 

 

Glad all that plumbing work is done now. To be honest I'm getting a bit bored with working on the engine, but the end is in sight (or so I keep thinking). The trouble is the more I look, the more I find - I think I have more than a touch of OCD. 🤪

 

As an example I was checking what is left to do on the engine and spotted the dipstick, Nice easy job I thought, stick the kit part on, give it a coat of paint, et voilà! But then I started thinking the dipstick looked a bit chunky, and one thing led to another...

 

Never mind, the replacement didn't take long to do, just slap it on the engine and move on. Let's just check some reference pictures for the dipstick orientation and colour. Hang on, wait a minute, what's that thing hanging off the oil filler neck...

 

It looks to be some kind of overflow. Hmmm, never mind, I'm sure it doesn't matter that it's missing, I'll just ignore it and crack on with something that's not engine related. Oh...

 

I think I need help - anyone got the number for Modelleraholics Anonymous?

 

Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

[Pig of the Week]

Outstanding ! 👍.... Needs a few oil leaks though..!

[APA]

Outstanding work Lummox 👍

 

Andrew 

[Redcoat2966]

That's one hell of a up detailing of that engine....bravo..........excellent so far.

 

Regards

Simon.

[Jochen Barett]

On 15/05/2021 at 21:44, Lummox said:

Thanks for the kind comments Matt.

+++

Incidentally, the image is a screen shot from an interesting YouTube video of a German chap talking about a L 4500 restoration. Unfortunately I don't speak German as I'm sure there would be many nuggets of information to be had:

 

 

Rough translation:

 

Their 4500 was buil tin 1944 and served as a beer (or beverage) delivery vehicle in Eastern Germany after the war. So it suffered from use and poor spare parts supply (no Western Mercedes spares available in the East).

 

The engine was developed as a "Rohölmotor" (crude-oil engine) a predecessor of the "Vielstoffmotor" (multifuel engine) known in the Bundeswehr (some time later) later.

 

They replaced many gaskets/seals and had to rebuild the "Wasserkasten" (part of the cooling, shown below the exhaust manifiold) cut/milled from full metall, that was a cast part in the original version (see before/after pic).

 

The water pump is driven through the generator by a belt in front. It used to have a Stopfbuchse (gland seal) and was rebuilt to have a needle bearing and "Simmerring" (lip seal, compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_shaft_seal when going through vocational education in Germany you will be "urged" to call it "Wellendichtring" (gemeral designation) and not "Simmerring" (trade mark)!)

 

The generator ("Lichtmaschine" literally translated: "light making machine", try to get a new "machine d'illumination" when you need it for you broken car in France) received a full overhaul (new bearings, new wiring mentioned, new brushes guessed) and they added the roller to keep the belt tensioned.

New wiring and new paint will come next.

 

Right hand side Kompressor (guess what that is) for the brake system, unfortunately manufactured post war in Eastern Germany. But they'll put up with it since the original part can not be found.

Same with the non original (dry) air filters. They do have oil bath air filters but they are rusted "beyond recognition".

 

New Diesel return pipe. Injection pump sealed. The Diesel injectors were still nice, compression was "OK". Engine is running and producing enough "Feinstaub" (particulate matter) <smile>.

 

At the vehicles rear end "interesting drive and brake concept", the Kardanwelle (propeller shaft) goes throgh the actual rear axle into the differential gear and the drive shafts go into intermediate gears ("Vorgelege") within the brake drums (like in Unimogs). An interesting and expensive concept, that made them stop the production in 1944 in favour of the Opel Blitz. The Opel Blitz was much cheaper to produce and was built at the Mercedes plant(s) from then on.

 

Brake system: compressor fills tanks, if brake pedal is pushed, air is led to the cylinders in the rear and via the shown push rods the drum brakes are activated.

Different set up for the front axle, he points to the brake valve that is actuated by the brake pedal and then to the air reservoir tank with pressure regulator and water sepeartor.

For the front brakes there is an air operated hydraulic cylinder and the front brakes are operated hydraulically "like in a regular passenger car". Unusual but original.

 

The truck platform is made from wood. They couldn't save "too much" front wall original, sides made by them new, still lacking holders for tools (spade, shovel etc,) and the roof bows.

When done they will reunite platform an drive train, lay electrical wiring and get everything painted.

 

Hope there are a few nuggets for you!

[Jochen Barett]

On 18/05/2021 at 23:06, Pig of the Week said:

Outstanding ! 👍.... Needs a few oil leaks though..!

It's not a British car!

 

It even runs without any "Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke"!

[edjbartos]

Just caught up with this thread Paul, you have done some amazing detail work here, fabulous attention to detail. This will look amazing when finished, thats for sure...👍

 

Ed

[Pig of the Week]

7 hours ago, Jochen Barett said:

It's not a British car!

 

It even runs without any "Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke"!

Yes, I'm obviously still thinking " Land Rover" !

[Lummox]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:12 PM, APA said:

Outstanding work Lummox

Thanks Andrew.

 

On 5/19/2021 at 3:42 PM, Redcoat2966 said:

That's one hell of a up detailing of that engine....bravo..........excellent so far.

Cheers Simon.

 

17 hours ago, Jochen Barett said:

Rough translation:

Awesome work Jochen, some nuggets there for sure. Your translated summary is above and beyond the call of duty and I cannot thank you enough. 👍

 

11 hours ago, edjbartos said:

Just caught up with this thread Paul, you have done some amazing detail work here, fabulous attention to detail. This will look amazing when finished, thats for sure...

Appreciate the kind comments Ed.

 

On 5/18/2021 at 10:06 PM, Pig of the Week said:

Outstanding ! 👍.... Needs a few oil leaks though..!

Thanks Pig - hmm some oil leaks...

 

17 hours ago, Jochen Barett said:

It's not a British car!

...or maybe not...

 

...well perhaps just a bit...

 

Thanks for all the kind comments guys - very much appreciated,

 

Paul.

 

[Jochen Barett]

4 hours ago, Lummox said:

...

Awesome work Jochen, some nuggets there for sure. Your translated summary is above and beyond the call of duty and I cannot thank you enough.

+++

...well perhaps just a bit...

 

Thanks for all the kind comments guys - very much appreciated,

Paul.

 

 

You're welcome!

 

I bet that one ran in the British occupied zone (or sector) after the war ... or it is fake news 😎

 

Regarding that tube hanging from the oil filler neck maybe this here applies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system#Atmospheric_venting

 

 

[Lummox]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:03 PM, Jochen Barett said:

Regarding that tube hanging from the oil filler neck maybe this here applies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system#Atmospheric_venting

Thanks Jochen, it looks like you have identified the mysterious 'thing' - a road draught tube. Such a simple idea to stick a tube in the slipstream and it sucks gasses out of the crankcase. Input like this is why I love this place. 👍

 

My previous attempt at scratching the road draught tube was a failure, so here is attempt number two. It's a better length this time, and it also has the box structure at the top (which I assume contains the breather, maybe)...

 

I've also been fiddling with the fan provided in the Voyager etch set. When compared with the kit offering it looks a lot finer and more to scale. I suspect that the fan blades are too narrow though (but I don't plan to do anything there)...

 

Amusingly the Voyager instructions would have you attach the fan to the lower (crankcase?) pulley, which is totally wrong. You do worry how well Voyager have researched the subject if this is what they come up with...

 

Also, the fan blades are too long and would foul on the lower pulley (the blades on the kit fan have the same problem). It was a minor task to give them a trim, giving them a slight bend along the blade axis at the same time...

 

After a trip to the paint shop, the dip stick, road draught tube, fan belt and pulleys, and fan were added to the engine...

 

There's not much clearance between the road draught tube and the chassis, but it seems to fit just fine, the tube end sitting nicely in the slipstream...

 

The fan has detail on just one side, the other side being plain. I attached the detail side to face backwards towards the engine which may seem counterintuitive. The fan, however, sits very close to the radiator, so if the detail was facing out (as indicated by the instructions) it would be totally hidden. Facing backwards the detail can be seen...

 

The list of jobs to do on the engine is slowly getting smaller. Next will be the air filters, which leaves me pondering on how to represent the filter mesh structure... 🤔

 

Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

 

[APA]

You want something that looks like mesh? Well you've already seen one solution. In fact your interest was piqued if I remember right. 🤣😉

 

Andrew 

[m4rky]

Really enjoy following your build. 
Love all the scratch parts youve added they look spot on.

Can you expand on how you have painted the engine? What paints, colours and weathering have you used as it looks so realistic.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Lummox]

21 hours ago, APA said:

You want something that looks like mesh? Well you've already seen one solution. In fact your interest was piqued if I remember right. 🤣

Hmmm, not sure that surgical gauze will fit the bill Andrew 🤪

 

But yes, mesh of some kind, similar to your electric razor foil, but a lot finer. The diameter of the air filters is only around 4mm or so. This is the finest etch I have in my spare box, which I'm guessing will be similar to your razor foil. I think it will look clunky for the filter mesh (and I wouldn't fancy rolling it into a small enough cylinder to be honest)...

 

This may be an option, which is an Archer treadplate surface decal. Could do with being a bit 'higher resolution', but may give an impression of fine mesh, and should be easy enough to apply. Not 100% sure about it, but may give it a go and see what it looks like...

 

 

9 hours ago, m4rky said:

Really enjoy following your build. 
Love all the scratch parts youve added they look spot on.

Can you expand on how you have painted the engine? What paints, colours and weathering have you used as it looks so realistic.

Many thanks for the kind comments Mark,

It's a pleasant surprise that you like the painted engine as I just see the bad and the camera is a harsh mistress. I know different people prefer different stages of the modelling process, Some dislike the build for example and relish the paint stage. I'm the opposite though, preferring the build and viewing the painting as a 'necessary evil'. During painting I probably cut corners and do things that would have other shaking their heads. I'll attempt to explain what I do, but not necessarily as a 'this is how you should do it' guide to others.

My painting process for something smallish and dirty like the engine can be summarised in one picture...

So clockwise from the top:

1) Good old Humbrol enamels and paint brushes. These pots are at least 10 years old and still paint nicely. I generally don't bother priming small components, just give a good clean, then apply at least two coats of thinned paint for the base colour. I find the enamel provides a nice tough base coat without the need for primer.

2) Detail painting with acrylics, generally Vallejo Model Color, but also other makes like these Citadel pots here (again years old but still work fine). The paint is brushed on after being thinned and with flow improver added.

3) Next the washes. The engine is dirty so it gets a liberal umber shade sludge wash. No gloss coat before hand here, you want the engine to look filthy all over, not just in recesses, panel lines, etc. This can be a 'Oh no, what have I done' moment, but the filter step later subdues and blends things together. I always thin the washes, never using them neat as they can be too harsh (especially the black). Targeted pin washes then follow (around rivets, bolts, panels, etc.)

4) Now filter layers (using old Mig ones that again I've had for some time). If you've never used filters you'll think 'what's the point with this, it's not doing anything'. It is doing something though, subtly altering tones and hues. Several filter coats may well be needed depending on the effect you are looking for. Different filters can be applied to different areas to shift colour hues. The engine for example has the same grey base coat, and the same umber sludge coat, but different filters have been applied to the sump and cylinder head areas to give a blue tone, where the rest of the engine has a brown tone.

5) Finally Tamiya weathering powders are applied here and there as required.

 

Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

 

[APA]

You might me right about the actual mesh, pic for reference;

 

 

how about the edge strip? Anything smaller and your talking molecular!!😂

 

 

I agree it might be a bit hard to bend. Might be able to anneal it. I'll let you know how I get on 😁

 

Andrew

[vytautas]

1 hour ago, Lummox said:

But yes, mesh of some kind, similar to your electric razor foil, but a lot finer. The diameter of the air filters is only around 4mm or so. This is the finest etch I have in my spare box, which I'm guessing will be similar to your razor foil. I think it will look clunky for the filter mesh (and I wouldn't fancy rolling it into a small enough cylinder to be honest)...

For a similar thing, I used metalized paper inside a pack of cigarettes. The texture of the metalized paper differs depending on the species of cigarette. Some of them have a relief very similar to a filter:

 

Vytautas

[APA]

49 minutes ago, vytautas said:

For a similar thing, I used metalized paper inside a pack of cigarettes. The texture of the metalized paper differs depending on the species of cigarette. Some of them have a relief very similar to a filter:

 

Vytautas

Also some yoghurt pots etc have textured foil lids. 

 

Andrew 

[m4rky]

Lummox, thanks alot for the awesome explanation. I have a load of old humbrol enamels that are left in a drawer. Will get some of them out and experiment with the washes. Not got any filters so may invest as i have a feeling its those that are creating that extra bit of realism.

 

For your filter could you use one of those really posh fine mesh tea bags? Might be a bit floppy though??

[Lummox]

21 hours ago, APA said:

I agree it might be a bit hard to bend. Might be able to anneal it. I'll let you know how I get on

The mesh on that razor foil is surprisingly fine Andrew, and the edge pattern looks like it could have uses too. I haven't seen one in years, but I'm guessing the foil is super springy? It'll be interesting to hear what effect annealing may have.

 

21 hours ago, vytautas said:

For a similar thing, I used metalized paper inside a pack of cigarettes. The texture of the metalized paper differs depending on the species of cigarette. Some of them have a relief very similar to a filter:

Hmmm, that embossed paper looks useful vytautas.  The problem is I gave up smoking last year (447 days ago, but who's counting!), so I'm not sure I can trust myself to buy a pack and throw the contents away.

As I remember the packs I bought in the UK didn't have the paper anyway, being more encased in a 'stay fresh longer' foil thing?

 

20 hours ago, APA said:

Also some yoghurt pots etc have textured foil lids. 

Yoghurt pots too - I'll keep an eye out for those.

 

19 hours ago, m4rky said:

For your filter could you use one of those really posh fine mesh tea bags? Might be a bit floppy though??

And tea bags! Don't think my Yorkshire Tea ones are posh enough, I'll have to go upmarket!

Good luck with the painting experiments Mark. I'm sure you probably know this, but make sure you thin the enamels appropriately - two smooth thin coats are a lot better than one thick gloopy.

 

 

I appreciate all the comments and suggestions guys - cheers!

 

Paul.

[Lummox]

Hello everyone,

 

There's a change of tack for this update, highlighting work that's been bubbling away in the background and will continue to be periodically chipped away at going forward. It relates to the Voyager etch upgrades for the bed sides as per these instructions...

 

It all looks innocuous enough, just bend some etch and slap it on. The work involved, however, is considerable and quite tedious. The kit components that are to be replaced have to be removed, which is easier said than done. Careful cutting, paring and scraping of plastic is required, removing unwanted areas but striving to retain (and where necessary repair) the underlying detail for the wooden boards. I've competed one side of the bed, which was a bench time hog, representing about 6 hours work (over a few sessions)...

 

A close up may help to illustrate the work that has been required, Quite substantial areas of plastic have been eradicated, board boundaries have been scribed, and an attempt has been made to replicate the wood grain on bare plastic areas. I'm hoping that once the etch has been applied much of the 'roughness' will be hidden...

 

A production line has been set up to produce the shiny stuff that replaces the removed plastic. Great, let's stick the etch on and see if all the work was worthwhile...

 

Hang on, what's this, the etch hinge strap looks to be longer than the kit originals. Notice that Voyager, in their infinite wisdom, decided to alter the strap fastener locations, moving them from the board centres (which is the obvious and correct place to put them), resulting in the bottom most fastener hitting fresh air ...

 

I guess I better check references for the hinge strap lengths to check whether I need to trim the top ends a little. Here comes a can of worms!

 

Surprisingly, I could find very few examples of the detail provided on the kit that is being replaced by the etch. The only example I could find is for a L 4500R Maultier. Hmmm, the hinge appears to be below the level of the bed - is it this that Voyager are attempting to represent...?

 

Let's look for more examples. I love this picture of a holzgas conversion (yup, that is definitely a four man job!) - we see that the hinge is again below the bed...

 

Looking further you see several further examples...

 

But then again you also see a different orientation for the hinge, these being attached on the side of the bed rather than below. It's this orientation that is represented on the kit...

 

So it seems that there were different designs for the hinged bed side; one where the hinge is below the bed, and one where the hinge is at the same level as the bed. Wonder why they would do such a thing, can only imagine it was some kind of incremental design improvement?

Anyway, going back to the etch, which variant are Voyager trying to represent? Well it looks like it's the 'same level' variant, just about. It's maybe a tad long, but I think it should be OK...

 

Sorry, bit of a ramble this one, but just goes to show the kind of rabbit holes you can quickly disappear down.

 

Cheers, thanks for humouring me, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

 

 

[Pig of the Week]

Interesting, I also notice the thru bolts aren't necessarily in the middle of the planks either.. In fact very close to edge in some cases, This suggests to me there may be a steel backing strip the other side of the planks, which are sandwiched between the two ??

[APA]

Ha! I totally get the rabbit hole you can go done. It can take some discipline to stop yourself from going in too deep with detail.

 

As for the hinges, if you look at the top set of pics where the hinge is below, this is because the side panels come below the decking and sit in front. In the second set, your option, the side panels sit on top of the decking. (Your first picture with the red square detailing is the exception as it looks like the panel sits on top of the decking but has the lower hinges) Possibly because of different factories, specs over time etc.

 

Either way these are a good use of PE, I approve 😁.

 

As usual, some excellent work 👍🏻👍🏻

 

Andrew

Edited May 30, 2021 by APA

[Jochen Barett]

22 hours ago, Lummox said:

Hello everyone,

+++

So it seems that there were different designs for the hinged bed side; one where the hinge is below the bed, and one where the hinge is at the same level as the bed. Wonder why they would do such a thing, can only imagine it was some kind of incremental design improvement?

+++

Paul.

 

I can't come up with the specific reason, maybe conservation of raw materials, less hours of labour, more reliability?

 

In general in the olden days you could categorize countries and the way they built / build cars.

US: Make technology reliable, change exterior every year for marketing purposes (your neighbour sees you have an old car).

Germany: Produce a car (VW bug) for decades and improve every detail for reliability, performany, and ease of manucfacture every year and only make small cosmetic changes when neccessary.

Great Britain: Produce a car for decades and NEVER fix any well known bug or improve any pourly designed detail.

 

Later the Germans went to four year cycles of cosmetic changes (after Japan entered the market with two year intervalls) and the British decided to sell their car industry to other people who know better. Today German cars are a total mess too. (sorry for Italian and French cars, the insults will be added later)

 

It would be interesting to know wether Mercedes changed the width of the bed when changing the position of the hinges and which version is "early" and which is late, or if it is something linke "Stuttgart plant" vs. "Darmstadt plant" (if they had more than one plant in those days) or "bed made by local GCME company".

With the hinges below the bed and the bed sides ending next to the bed (not on top) they may have gained "two board" in bed width.

One of the versions looks "more elaborate" (getting thinner towards the top) saving some steel, the other version is made of a U-profile, easier to make, more solid, using more steel.

 

You will have to build more than one L 4500.

And one of the bedsides shown even has a "metal frame" all the way around it.

[Pig of the Week]

You'd think the hinge pivot pins would be removable so you could quickly remove the sides and make a "flat bed" too..