1/35 T-54 or T-55 Yom Kippur - T-62 Afghanistan

[Peter Browne]

Looking to build either a T-54 or T-55 for the Egyptian side in the 1973 Yom Kippur war.  Any recommendations for a 1/35 kit?  Is there anything I should watch for e.g. OMSh tracks or anything else?

 

One of interest is the Takom T-54B Russian Medium Tank Late Type (TK2055).

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/takom-2055-t-54-b--987320

 

 

There are a number of reviews on this kit, mostly very favourable, with the main problems to do with ejector pin marks on each track link and seams on the rubber wheels.  Including on this forum at https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235004696-russian-t-54b-135/#ipboard_body

 

But is there anything better to model an Egyptian T54 or T-55 in 1973?

[RHWinter]

Miniart, perhaps? Their kits generally are of good reputation, but I don't know anything about this kit. As this one has a full interior it probably won't be to cheap...

https://miniart-models.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/T-55-37018-page-02-724x1024.jpg

 

[Kingsman]

I would go for Miniart, although they seem more complex than the Takom kits to build.  While all Miniart T-54/55 kits come with individual link tracks, only a few of the later releases come with the later workable tracks - although these are available separately much more cheaply than resin or metal options.

 

For the 1973 conflict Egypt had mostly T-55s with a smaller number of T-54s.  Overall about 1,200 T-54s were ordered and delivered vs about 700 T-55.  However, as many as 750+ T-54s were lost in the 1967 war and the majority of new deliveries between 67 and 73 were T-55s.  T-54s were still in service in 73, though.  T-54B was actually a very short-production model, being built for about 2 years during 1957-59.

 

The initial Egyptian buy of 350 new T-54As ordered in 1960 and delivered from 1961-66 were almost certainly Czech-built: Russia stopped building them in 1957.  Their 1967 attrition buy delivered between 67 and 72 was 800 used T-54A/Bs of mixed Russian, Czech and Polish production followed by another 50 used Russian T-54s to replace 1973 losses.

 

The first 150 T-55s, all new-build Russian, were delivered between 1964 and 66.  About half of these were lost in the 67 conflict.  After the 1967 conflict another 550 new-build Russian T-55s were ordered and delivered between 1969 and 73.  The T-55A replaced the T-55 in Russian production in 1970 and re-introduced the cupola MG, among other changes, so it is likely that Egypt received both T-55 and T-55A from that order.

 

So a T-55 seems to be a more likely candidate for an Egyptian 1973 tank than a T-54.  The Miniart T-55 M1963 interior kit (37018) is the only kit in their extensive T-55 range which comes with Egyptian markings.  Egyptian markings are available from Star: their 35-978 set has markings for 2 1973-era T-55s.

[Peter Browne]

3 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

... So a T-55 seems to be a more likely candidate for an Egyptian 1973 tank than a T-54.  The Miniart T-55 M1963 interior kit (37018) is the only kit in their extensive T-55 range which comes with Egyptian markings.  Egyptian markings are available from Star: their 35-978 set has markings for 2 1973-era T-55s.

 

Thanks!  I did look at all the MiniArt T-54 and T-55 offerings, and while the mod 1963 T-55 seemed the most suitable, I do not want an interior kit, especially given the complexity of assembly and over-engineering of MiniArt! 

 

I do however prefer a T-55 and would like to do a MiniArt one.  The question in my mind was which T-55 would be right?  The mod 1966 having the Egyptian decals was an obvious choice, except for the interior.

 

So, would (not knowing what a model 1963 specifically features) the standard MiniArt T-55 kit 37027 be appropriate for an Egyptian T-55 in Yom Kippur?  I can't see any differences externally from the interior kit 37018.  If so, then it's a bit surprising that MiniArt haven't included the Egyptian decals from the previous interior kit 37018.

 

https://miniart-models.com/products/37027-t-55-soviet-medium-tank/

 

 

 

While I'm asking, what are OMSH tracks?  I can't seem to find a good reference anywhere...

 

Thanks for the tip on the Star decals!  I see that decal set 35-878 has Egyptian T-54 and T-55A but not T-55 (35-978 is Tiger 1).  Perhaps I should be looking at a T-55A (early or late??  I presume the early version) to match the decals.

 

 

 

[RHWinter]

Not planning to totally „kidnap“ this thread, but triggered by Star-Decal's sheet of egyptian tanks...

While you're discussing the T-54 and T-55 kits:

Is there a decent kit of the T-62 in 1/35th scale around? The venerable kit from Tamiya is not, as far as I've read.

[Peter Browne]

1 hour ago, RHWinter said:

Not planning to totally „kidnap“ this thread, but triggered by Star-Decal's sheet of egyptian tanks...

While you're discussing the T-54 and T-55 kits:

Is there a decent kit of the T-62 in 1/35th scale around? The venerable kit from Tamiya is not, as far as I've read.

 

Apart from various Trumpeter kits (of which there are 15 including an IDF Tiran), of which this one which is meant to be an improvement on the Tamiya kit, there is a new Zvezda kit due this year:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zvezda-3622-t-62--1318470

 

See ScaleMates https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?q=t-62*&fkSECTION[]=Kits&fkSCALENORMALISED[]="1:00035"&fkGROUPS[]="Vehicles"&fkTYPEGROUP[]="T-62"

[RHWinter]

53 minutes ago, Peter Browne said:

 

Apart from various Trumpeter kits (of which there are 15 including an IDF Tiran), of which this one which is meant to be an improvement on the Tamiya kit, there is a new Zvezda kit due this year:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zvezda-3622-t-62--1318470

 

See ScaleMates https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?q=t-62*&fkSECTION[]=Kits&fkSCALENORMALISED[]="1:00035"&fkGROUPS[]="Vehicles"&fkTYPEGROUP[]="T-62"

Thank you very much, Peter! 

[Kingsman]

20 hours ago, Peter Browne said:

 

So, would (not knowing what a model 1963 specifically features) the standard MiniArt T-55 kit 37027 be appropriate for an Egyptian T-55 in Yom Kippur?

That kit is the baseline T-55 Model 1958, the very first of the T-55s.  Looking at the timeline of Egyptian purchases their first T-55s were almost certainly the M1963 I mentioned as they were not ordered until 1963 and deliveries did not begin until 1964.  Of course you don't have to use the interior parts but the interior kits tend to be more expensive.  I mentioned the M1963 kit only because it has the Egyptian markings included.

 

You could look at either of the T-55A M1965 early or late non-interior kits, 37057 or 37023.  These would be appropriate for the 2nd (1967) Egyptian buy delivered from 1969-73.  Potentially the M1970 kit 37064 could be used as the tail end of that order probably included some M1970s.  Russia did not keep older models in concurrent production for the sake of delivering export customers a singular build standard.  Production transitioned and customers got whatever model was then being built.   But for all of these kits you will have to source markings from Star or elsewhere.  I'm not aware of any other Egyptian T-55 marking sets, although Egyptian markings of the era were quite generic so you might be able to adapt something else.

 

Omsh and Rmsh are just slightly differently shaped track links.  Don't get hung up about these.  Rmsh are later and more commonly seen on T-62 and T-72 but could be re-fitted to T-55s, although the sprockets were different.  Essentially the Omsh type have fully enclosed holes for the sprocket teeth whereas the Rmsh type have open outer edges.

[Peter Browne]

Thanks again Das Abteilung! 

 

Yes, a 1970 model could conceivably be part of the 550 T-55 Soviet deliveries between1969 and 1973 (SIPRI Arms Transfers Database).

 

This has now piqued my interest in the 1970 and later models!  But I want to restrict my tank models to a historical chronology.

 

So, for the Soviet-Afghanistan War, a 1970 model, and later models of course including the T-55A Model 1981 (I'm referring to the MiniArt kits). 

 

So I'm thinking a 1965 (late or early) for Yom Kippur and a 1981 for Afghanistan or maybe a T-62 or T-64.  What would be most representative for Afghanistan?

 

Can anyone tell me what model/s tanks are in this photo from Afghanistan (mid 80's)?  I assume they are T-62 by the road wheel spacing and mid-barrel smoke eliminators.

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

AFAIK there were no T-64s in Afghanistan. Russian tank units in Afghanistan had T-55s or T-62s.  T-64 was an expensive premium tank assigned to "elite" units and mostly seen with Russian forces facing NATO.  The T-62 was the low-cost fall-back alternative development of the T-55 platform with the same 115mm gun as originally carried by T-64. T-62 was in almost every respect more successful, seeing much wider service.  T-64 was never exported.

 

The tanks in this photo are all T-62s, although which model is hard to tell.  The fume extractor further down the barrel is an obvious identifier.  As with its predecessors there were a number of producion evoloutions and in-service upgrades.  As a rough rule model changes entered production in the year following their designation, after the redesign had been approved and production changes initiated.    The T-62's improved anti-armour lethality compared to T-55 was of little or no use in Afghanistan and its survivability was little better.  Mobility was similar.

 

M1980 was the last of the Russian-built T-55s and was actually out of production by the end of 1981.  The Czechs carried on with their version of the T-55 until 1983, never having taken up the T-55A.  Indeed they actually carried on with the T-54A until 1966, concurrently with the T-55 for about 9 years.  Most Czech production was exported whereas almost all Polish production went to Warsaw Pact members.  For many export customers the changes from T-54 to T-55 were of little or no benefit.  China of course famously stuck with the T-54 design for the Types 59 and 69.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Das Abteilung
addition

[Peter Browne]

Thanks again!  I was just about to ask RHWinter's question when I realised I had already answered it...(makes note to himself, need to turn fan on spray booth for fume extraction...).  I wonder what the Trumpeter T-62 kits are like...

 

Is that a KTD-2 (or 1) on the front tank on the right?

[Peter Browne]

OK, I think I have the Afghanistan tank sorted, I will go for a T-62 Model 1972, with 1984 BDD mod.

 

 

A much larger image for those interested:  http://cdn.nwmgroups.hu/s/img/i/1412/20141223afganisztan-megszallasa-armed-forces-red.jpg

 

 

Any ideas why in the first image the tank is missing the rear fuel drums?

[John Tapsell]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:27 AM, Peter Browne said:

Thanks again Das Abteilung! 

 

Yes, a 1970 model could conceivably be part of the 550 T-55 Soviet deliveries between1969 and 1973 (SIPRI Arms Transfers Database).

 

This has now piqued my interest in the 1970 and later models!  But I want to restrict my tank models to a historical chronology.

 

So, for the Soviet-Afghanistan War, a 1970 model, and later models of course including the T-55A Model 1981 (I'm referring to the MiniArt kits). 

 

So I'm thinking a 1965 (late or early) for Yom Kippur and a 1981 for Afghanistan or maybe a T-62 or T-64.  What would be most representative for Afghanistan?

 

Can anyone tell me what model/s tanks are in this photo from Afghanistan (mid 80's)?  I assume they are T-62 by the road wheel spacing and mid-barrel smoke eliminators.

 

 

 

The tank closest to the camera is an earlier T-62 without the loader's MG ring. The one leading the column on the right is a T-62A with the modified turret casting and later loader's hatch with MG ring. In fact, apart from the tank closest to the camera, they mostly appear to have the later turret.

T-55s and T-62s are appropriate for Soviet forces in Afghanistan. The Afghan Army also fielded both types but still had significant numbers of older T-54s (which still pop up in photos of far more recent conflicts).

 

Very few countries around the world can afford to 'throw away' older tanks so they keep them in service for many years after richer/more profligate nations have retired them. Also, many countries received 'gifts' of older vehicles (quite apart from the ones they were buying) from countries whose influence they are/were under at the time. It's not a neat and tidy timeline in most cases.

[Cyberduck]

To go back to the original question. Could you use one of the Miniart Tiran kits and backdate it to model a T-55 as it's original owner?

[Bullbasket]

32 minutes ago, Cyberduck said:

To go back to the original question. Could you use one of the Miniart Tiran kits and backdate it to model a T-55 as it's original owner?

Unless you had a Tiran kit that you didn't want to build as one, why would you want to, when T-55 kits are available in substantial numbers?

 

John.

[Cyberduck]

I have found that the Tiran kits tend to be cheaper. 

[Bullbasket]

2 hours ago, Cyberduck said:

I have found that the Tiran kits tend to be cheaper. 

But you could find that the work needed to backdate it, which could include purchasing AM parts, could prove to be more expensive.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

I've got 3 different variants of the Miniart Tirans and all have different sprues.  Some are common.  Like Dragon they do mix and match common-ish sprues.  But unlike Dragon they don't indicate unused parts on the sprue diagrams.  My Tiran 4 Late, for example, has 3 different turret shells and some other parts that look like a DshK mount.

 

But they're all Tiran 4's, so T-54s.  They have indicated that they plan to do a Tiran 5 but it isn't in the 2021 catalogue.

 

The closest to a baseline T-54 is the Tiran 4 Early (37010) as this is barely modified from a T-54: it has the one-piece engine deck grille so I believe it is an M1955 - certainly very early.  The split grille and wading gear came in with the T-54A.  Other parts might be on the sprues, I haven't looked that closely.  But there are 2 potential wrinkles.  It is an interior kit, so still commands a high price.  And it has Starfish wheels when Spider would be more appropriate for that age.

 

The other candidate would be the exterior version of the Tiran 4 Late (37041).  This is a later model T-54, possibly a T-54B but as I noted above there seem to be a number of excess parts in the box.  One great advantage is that, uniquely, it comes with full sets of both Spider and Starfish wheels and has the nice workable Omsh tracks.  I actually have one of these in my surplus pile if you're interested @Cyberduck.  PM me if you are: perhaps we can come to an accommodation.  I also have a surplus T-55A M1965 Late if that might be of interest.  I might have some relevant after market parts like gun barrels too. 

[Kingsman]

I've just had another look at the Tiran 4 Late kit and the box lid is incorrect.  The track links are NOT workable in that kit, although it says they are.

 

Miniart released both workable and non-workable Rmsh tracks a while back but these only work for T-55A and later.  A few kits do come with the workable links while others don't.  The T-55A Late M1965 does.  Yes, I've checked inside.   Although they have released their non-workable Omsh tracks separately they have yet to release a workable set of Omsh.

 

Which means that I have 5 sets of the wrong type of workable tracks for the tanks I want to put them on, and now I need to find some workable  Omsh.  D'oh...........!