Back in the Saddle Posted April 17, 2021 Posted April 17, 2021 Those who have followed my recent builds will know of my affinity with the 747. Whilst my current 747-436 tribute build is stalled (I'm still waiting for replacement decals), I thought I would turn my attention to some more modern 747 kits. Hopefully they will be far less hassle and go together much more easily than the venerable Revell 747-400! The only modern version of the 747 is the -800 variant. Both Revell and Zvezda have 1/144 versions of this aircraft, but which is best? There's only one way to find out - build them both! To start, here are the two boxes: First impressions - the packaging on the Revell box is superior, as are the decals. The quality of the sprues looks pretty comparable - time will tell as the build progresses... More on that later! Regarding the schemes, I am going to venture into the world of custom decals and build these two as 'what ifs'. Both models will be finished in a 'Utopia' or 'World Image' livery, used by British Airways at the turn of the century and then dropped in favour of the current 'Union Flag' scheme. It was a bit marmite(!), but I quite liked it and thought it would be an interesting side project to design something completely different and previously unseen on a 747. One model will be finished in the 'Youm al-Suq' design, representing Saudi Arabia. This scheme was only ever used on two aircraft - an Embraer 145 (G-EMBJ) and a 737 (G-GBTA). Images of these two aircraft can be seen on the artist's website: https://www.shadiaalem.com/british-airways-utopia-project I purchased some decals designed for the 737 and set to work on photoshop, amending the design to fit a 747. Here's the original decal: Then after many, many hours of work, I created something 747 sized: The other airframe will receive a variation of the 'Colum' livery used on my tribute build. This design was quite well received and there were several different versions of this design in use. I am basing my decal on G-BGDR, a 737-236. I bought these decals earlier in the week and have a few hours of work ahead of me... Here's how they look, compared with the 747: Obviously they need enlarging and I will have to make a few modifications and additions along the way! I hope to turn my attention to these two models soon - I need a break from the endless round of filling/sanding/priming which seems to be happening with all my other projects at the moment! Just gluing plastic together will make a pleasant change...😀 14
Alex1978 Posted April 18, 2021 Posted April 18, 2021 Nice to see another 747 production line...😉 Last year I managed to finish 12 747s,this year 3 are under construction currently. 747-200 in the old SAA livery,a 747-300 and a 747-400F in 1/144. As for the -800s Both the Revell and Zvezda offerings are superb kits. The Revell offering is a bit more detailed,landing lights,antennas etc. but suffers already from flash on some parts. Esp. the fan blades.Be aware of that . For me,I prefer the Zvezda kit,as its a bit simpler in construction. Once finished,its difficult to tell the difference between the 2. Looking forward to those 2 beauties 1 1
Alex1978 Posted April 18, 2021 Posted April 18, 2021 Ohh,just came to my mind .. Revell has the front wheels too small.About 2mm in diameter smaller than they should be. If you have spares from a -400 it should be an easy fix. If built as is,it just looks strange,so if its not gear up,better replace them 1 2
Back in the Saddle Posted April 18, 2021 Author Posted April 18, 2021 @Alex1978 Thanks for the heads up - I’ll check the nose wheels tomorrow. The Zvezda kit certainly looks simpler - just a page of instructions instead of Revell’s booklet. There are a few differences in construction, hence this thread - I will compare the two and see which is best.👍 2
Milczacy Posted April 21, 2021 Posted April 21, 2021 Nice „challenge” 👌 Revel’s wheels are also too small regarding original, Zvezda made it better.
mitchem Posted April 21, 2021 Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 9:14 PM, Back in the Saddle said: Regarding the schemes, I am going to venture into the world of custom decals....... Stop before it's too late Matt ! There's no cure 😆 mike 2
Back in the Saddle Posted April 21, 2021 Author Posted April 21, 2021 On 18/04/2021 at 17:17, Alex1978 said: Revell has the front wheels too small.About 2mm in diameter smaller than they should be. 13 hours ago, Milczacy said: Revel’s wheels are also too small regarding original, Zvezda made it better. Thank you both for alerting me to this. I've now had a look at the wheels and there is a definite size difference as you've described... Guess I will have to use the Zvezda wheels to make a mold and then cast some resin replacements - another new skill to learn! 😉 13 hours ago, mitchem said: Stop before it's too late Matt ! There's no cure 😆 Too late Mike! 😆 The scheme on my third 747-8 will be one you should recognise...😉 Talking of schemes, I've been busy with this over the past couple of days and still haven't really looked at the kits. To be fair, I need to complete a couple of builds first to make space for this project, so hopefully I can be forgiven! Instead, I have concentrated on the livery which will be used. As mentioned earlier, the second 747 in this build will be in the 'Colum' design, but using a variant not seen on a 747 in real life. The two BA 747's that received the "Colum' design were G-CIVP (the subject of my tribute build) and G-BYGB, which had something very similar but with some colour variations. Here's the design on G-CIVP, taken from a well known website with the permission of the photographer Andy Vanderheyden - thank you Andy: The variant I want to depict was used on G-BGDR (see the decals above) and also G-MSKB and G-BZAU shown below. These images are again used with permission of the photographer Toni Marimon - thanks Toni! I set to work on photoshop and came up with this, which matches the 737 design quite closely: I was quite happy with that, as it looks like a good approximation of how this variant would appear if applied to a 747. I then made the fatal mistake of continuing to play with the design and came up with this variation: Completely different from planned and totally unique, as this variant was never applied to any aircraft at BA. So I now have a quandary... which version should I develop for the finished model? I like them both and so far in the household two people have said the top design is best and two have gone with the bottom one! Fortunately I have a few weeks to think about it and ultimately, as this build is a complete 'what if', there is no right or wrong answer - I will just see if one design grows on me more than the other! 4
mitchem Posted April 22, 2021 Posted April 22, 2021 11 hours ago, Back in the Saddle said: So I now have a quandary... which version should I develop for the finished model? I like them both and so far in the household two people have said the top design is best and two have gone with the bottom one! Fortunately I have a few weeks to think about it and ultimately, as this build is a complete 'what if', there is no right or wrong answer - I will just see if one design grows on me more than the other! Hmmm 🤔....... I didn't sleep last night worrying about this, but I've eventually come to the conclusion that you have no choice but to build both of them! Not for us of course, but purely for the sake of the household. 😀 mike 1
Back in the Saddle Posted June 11, 2021 Author Posted June 11, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 07:46, mitchem said: Hmmm 🤔....... I didn't sleep last night worrying about this, but I've eventually come to the conclusion that you have no choice but to build both of them! Not for us of course, but purely for the sake of the household. 😀 Hi Mike. I wasn't ignoring your comment - I have just been ignoring this entire build! I started this thread when I was designing the decals for my 747-436 build and it seemed logical to work on the decals for these kits at the same time. Since then I have been slowly clearing my work bench to make room for these models - it's taken a while but I'm finally ready to start! Regarding the tail fin design, now I've had time to reflect I will probably do something completely different from the 'Colum' design... Anyway, on to the kits. I had a good look at the wings and fuselages today. The construction of the wings is probably the biggest variation between the two kits. Revell (white kit) has their traditional four piece wing, which slots into the fuselage sides and has a panel in the belly: From recent experience, this will need reinforcement! Zvezda (grey kit) has what appears to be a more elegant (and stronger) approach to this area, with a single piece for the lower wing with integral gear bays: The Zvezda wing simply attaches to a reinforced box area in the lower fuselage: Time will tell, but I think Zvezda has the best solution... The fuselage sections are almost identical in size, perhaps a 1mm difference between the two. The front sections match very closely: And the rear is pretty similar too. Revell has more detail around the APU exhaust and more panel lines on the tail fin. At first glance, the Revell tailplane attachment also looks to be more sturdy: Comparing the two fuselages, the Revell one has a few additional windows (marked in red): Enough looking - time to get started...! 4
Terry1954 Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 More 747's Matt, how can I be expected to keep up! Will of course follow these. Terry 1
Back in the Saddle Posted June 13, 2021 Author Posted June 13, 2021 On 12/06/2021 at 00:17, Terry1954 said: More 747's Matt, how can I be expected to keep up! I don't know Terry, but how many gliders am I going to be following...? 😁 I've already encountered my first (and completely unexpected) problem. The Zvezda fuselage is seriously warped... The photo below shows the wing seat area on the fuselage aligned, but the mis-match around the area of the upper deck is huge: It's even worse than the 1/48 Airfix Buccaneer that I finished last year - and that's saying something! The other minor issue with the Zvezda kit is a lack of a flight deck. That was easily fixed with some rough scratch building - quite adequate once it gets painted, as it will be barely visible through the windscreens: The Revell flight deck was only two pieces of plastic, but it makes such a difference! My next challenge is going to involve trying to close up the Zvezda fuselage. I think slowly, section by section should do the trick. I add reinforcement tabs along the joint lines on models this size, so will use those to help force the correct alignment. 6
Terry1954 Posted June 13, 2021 Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Back in the Saddle said: I don't know Terry, but how many gliders am I going to be following...? 😁 Fair cop! I had a warped fuselage on an Airfix 1/48 Meteor, and it took a fair bit of bending and clamping to sort it. Hope you can sort that one. Your plan sopunds like it might work. Terry 1
Back in the Saddle Posted June 15, 2021 Author Posted June 15, 2021 On 13/06/2021 at 20:24, Terry1954 said: I had a warped fuselage on an Airfix 1/48 Meteor, and it took a fair bit of bending and clamping to sort it. Hope you can sort that one. Your plan sopunds like it might work. Thanks Terry. I tried soaking it in hot water and trying to remove the warp, but to no avail. Back to my original plan...! Before joining the fuselage, I had to complete some other bits and bobs. The Revell kit needed the nose gear bay to be build up (Zvezda supplied a single piece, which was glued straight in): If you look closely, you can see some surgery on the nose gear location pins for the Revell kit - this should allow the nose gear to be added at the end of the build. The instructions would have you gluing this in now... I also added some ballast to prevent tail-sitting: I have some lead offcuts for this sort of job, donated by my father-in-law when he had some flashing replaced. But could I find them...? 😁 The Zvezda kit has three screws instead, which should do the trick. I've added two to the Revell kit for now; more can be added later if needed, due to the belly panel giving access. Some locating/strengthening tabs were glued into the Zvezda fuselage, to help force the correct alignment: I also glued the wings together: These were quite useful on the Zvezda kit, to help force the alignment into place: The Zvezda trailing edges are more crisp, as they are molded into the top sections of the wing. The wing joint can be seen on the underside (above), but this can be easily hidden with filler. Revell has the joint line exactly on the trailing edge, which whilst still being neat, doesn't look quite so good. Pros and cons so far: Quality of the box, instructions and decals - Revell is better Degree of surface detail - Revell is better Construction method (joining the wings to the fuselage) - Zvezda is better The warped fuselage is a major issue, but possibly an isolated incident...? I'm not aware of quality issues in general with Zvezda kits. The Zvezda kit is more basic (such as undercarriage bays and no navigation lights on the wing tips). Whether this is a pro or a con is down to personal choice! I can't say that I favour one kit over the other at the moment... Ask me again when I've joined the fuselages together! 4
Alex1978 Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, Back in the Saddle said: Thanks Terry. I tried soaking it in hot water and trying to remove the warp, but to no avail. Back to my original plan...! Before joining the fuselage, I had to complete some other bits and bobs. The Revell kit needed the nose gear bay to be build up (Zvezda supplied a single piece, which was glued straight in): If you look closely, you can see some surgery on the nose gear location pins for the Revell kit - this should allow the nose gear to be added at the end of the build. The instructions would have you gluing this in now... I also added some ballast to prevent tail-sitting: I have some lead offcuts for this sort of job, donated by my father-in-law when he had some flashing replaced. But could I find them...? 😁 The Zvezda kit has three screws instead, which should do the trick. I've added two to the Revell kit for now; more can be added later if needed, due to the belly panel giving access. Some locating/strengthening tabs were glued into the Zvezda fuselage, to help force the correct alignment: I also glued the wings together: These were quite useful on the Zvezda kit, to help force the alignment into place: The Zvezda trailing edges are more crisp, as they are molded into the top sections of the wing. The wing joint can be seen on the underside (above), but this can be easily hidden with filler. Revell has the joint line exactly on the trailing edge, which whilst still being neat, doesn't look quite so good. Pros and cons so far: Quality of the box, instructions and decals - Revell is better Degree of surface detail - Revell is better Construction method (joining the wings to the fuselage) - Zvezda is better The warped fuselage is a major issue, but possibly an isolated incident...? I'm not aware of quality issues in general with Zvezda kits. The Zvezda kit is more basic (such as undercarriage bays and no navigation lights on the wing tips). Whether this is a pro or a con is down to personal choice! I can't say that I favour one kit over the other at the moment... Ask me again when I've joined the fuselages together! Nice progress there. As for the warped fuselage on the Zvezda kit; I built 2 of them already and both were perfect,so I guess this is an isolated incident,esp. seeing this to that degree that you are having. In any way,I prefer the Zvezda kit over the Revell. Both are great but my last Revell -8I kits suffered already from some heavy flash and very thin plastic in some places,the fanblades in general.A shame for such new moulds. 1
Back in the Saddle Posted June 15, 2021 Author Posted June 15, 2021 29 minutes ago, Alex1978 said: Both are great but my last Revell -8I kits suffered already from some heavy flash and very thin plastic in some places,the fanblades in general.A shame for such new moulds. I’ve noticed that - the Revell fans look horrendous!
Back in the Saddle Posted June 18, 2021 Author Posted June 18, 2021 I have tackled the warped Zvezda fuselage and initially glued the rear, as this area looked relatively OK compared with the front: The Revell kit was also glued together. This has some nice detail in the tail cone, with a clear plastic insert to represent the navigation lights and also a better APU exhaust than Zvezda: The front fuselages were then glued together, section by section, to try to get the alignment as accurate as possible: A dry fit with the wings looks promising! Finally a shot of the engine sprues, to show the flash that was mentioned previously. The white sprue is Revell's and the fans are particularly bad. They are also going to be harder to remove than Zvezda's... 3
Terry1954 Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Seeing that third picture above of the two of them reminds me what a graceful wingplan the 747 has. A graceful beauty! Eye of the beholder perhaps. Terry 1
Back in the Saddle Posted June 26, 2021 Author Posted June 26, 2021 On 18/06/2021 at 20:21, Terry1954 said: Seeing that third picture above of the two of them reminds me what a graceful wingplan the 747 has. A graceful beauty! I must admit, the 747-8 has even more graceful lines than the -400. The stretched fuselage and swept wingtips look very elegant.👍 A little more progress to report... I have attached the windscreens: The Zvezda transparencies were in a different league from Revell, being far superior in every way - softer plastic, crisply molded and very clear. I now wish I'd taken more time to scratch build the Zvezda cockpit, as the (rather basic) details can be seen easily. Ironically the Revell kit, with the far better flight deck, has more opaque plastic... I will get these masked soon and apply primer, to see what needs further attention.👍 5
Terry1954 Posted June 27, 2021 Posted June 27, 2021 I see what you mean re the Zvezda canopy, very clear indeed, although the Revell one is not that bad. Front upper fuselage of both look pretty good too. Terry
Back in the Saddle Posted August 5, 2021 Author Posted August 5, 2021 I've turned my attention back to these two again and have started work designing the decals for the second model. I have changed my mind completely regarding the colour scheme I plan to depict; originally I was going to use a variation on the 'Colum' world image design, but as I already have this scheme on my tribute 747-436 build I have decided to use to a different design instead. Following my self imposed criteria of finishing these models in schemes that were never used on the real aircraft, I will use this variation of the 'Poland' artwork, which was only ever painted onto one aircraft, G-OGBC as seen below: My grateful thanks to the photographer Don Gilham, for allowing me to use his image. I did find some artwork showing how this design could have looked on a 747: However, as this is a 'what if' model I have decided to change the design slightly to make it even more colourful. My starting point was getting an image of the artwork used on G-OGBC and I have to thank @mitchem for his help with this, providing me with the basic building block to get started - cheers Mike! I then decided to expand the above design, in order to show the area cut off by the edge of the fin. I managed to get this image showing the missing section: Some intensive work on Photoshop gave me this: It still needs some work, but the basic design is now in place. The next stage will be converting this image into something that fits a 747...! 3
busnproplinerfan Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 Quite good. How much do you have to compensate for the curve of the fuselage? Very similar to the Coreldraw I use, which I'm no expert at. I want to do the same with Westjet's disney planes, at least now I have a 144 set.
Back in the Saddle Posted August 5, 2021 Author Posted August 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, busnproplinerfan said: How much do you have to compensate for the curve of the fuselage? I can't really answer that, as I use 'trial and error' as my main technique! I allow for the curvature of the aerofoil on the tail fin at the base, which also affects the shape of the top of the decal for the rear fuselage. Apart from that, I just print on paper, cut it out and see how it looks. I then modify and repeat this process until it looks correct. 1
busnproplinerfan Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Back in the Saddle said: I can't really answer that, as I use 'trial and error' as my main technique! I allow for the curvature of the aerofoil on the tail fin at the base, which also affects the shape of the top of the decal for the rear fuselage. Apart from that, I just print on paper, cut it out and see how it looks. I then modify and repeat this process until it looks correct. Kind of what I thought, about all you can do. Paper is helpful.
Back in the Saddle Posted August 5, 2021 Author Posted August 5, 2021 On 05/08/2021 at 18:38, busnproplinerfan said: Paper is helpful. It certainly is! Ironically, the artwork for this tail fin was based upon paper cut into shapes with shears - information about this can be found here if you want to read more about this design (scroll about halfway down the page to get to the required section). I have had a tweak with my version and have come up with this: I suspect this will not be the final version of the decal, but it gives an idea as to how it will look. It still needs a bit more work... 5
mitchem Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 I've got to congratulate you Matt. Your decal designing has come a long way since you started making repairs for one of your previous builds 👍👍 (I won't ask if the replacement set ever arrived.....) Best Regards mike
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