Jump to content

Gladiator interior colour?


Recommended Posts

Gladiators in brown/green early war camo...would the fabric on the interior be CDL, brick red or the greeny-grey found in Hurris and Spits?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, wombat said:

Gladiators in brown/green early war camo...would the fabric on the interior be CDL, brick red or the greeny-grey found in Hurris and Spits?

Spitfire's don't have visible internal fabric, the inside of Hurricane fuselage fabric is brick red.  This is the Finnish HurricaneIMG_6631.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The grey green was typically applied to metal surfaces by some manufacturers (though apparently not usually Hawker early on)  I think, possibly for anti corrosion.  I'd go with that slightly smeary reddish hue seen on the Finnish Hurricane. I think it was a non-tautening red dope put on immediately after the tautening cellulose dope coat.  I think it was a coating to reduce fabric deterioration.  Slight doubt on the reasoning, since I think UV was the main cause of conventional fabric ageing and a sliver coat should be more effective for that.  Too long ago, though I do recall using that red dope, way back !  

 

Perhaps someone with a better memory will comment...

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

I think it was a non-tautening red dope put on immediately after the tautening cellulose dope coat.  I think it was a coating to reduce fabric deterioration.  Slight doubt on the reasoning, since I think UV was the main cause of conventional fabric ageing and a sliver coat should be more effective for that.  Too long ago, though I do recall using that red dope, way back !  

 

Perhaps someone with a better memory will comment...

AFAIK the red dope is the first coat, which is why it can be seen bleeding though.the fabric. Aluminium was applied for UV protection, though this was not used under camouflage dope, certainly as the war progressed and aircraft lives were much shorter.  A big chunk of original Hurricane fabric that was on eBay recently showed no sign of alu dope.  (I'll add in link when I find it)

 

19 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

 

 

19 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

The grey green was typically applied to metal surfaces by some manufacturers (though apparently not usually Hawker early on)  I think, possibly for anti corrosion

Grey green was initially for cockpits, the rest of the internals on Hurricanes and Spitfires (and other types) until at least mid war was aluminium paint..

 

One point,  the rear of fabric visible in the cockpit would likely get painted grey green, though the metal access panels which form the lower walls of the Hurricane cockpit were painted aluminium.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, junglierating said:

CDL?

If you hold your mouse cursor over the abbreviation it will show the words - Clear Doped Linen.

Whenever you see "canvas" or "fabric" mentioned they usually mean CDL. Without added colouring it is usually a cream colour.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

'AFAIK the red dope is the first coat, which is why it can be seen bleeding though the fabric.' (Troy Smith)

 

I agree Troy, first coat after the (normally clear)  tautening coat. What I can't recall is why we used  the red dope.  Do you know? And yes the next coat used to be called Aluminium; it was for UV protection. Thanks.

 

Intrigued you think the fabric interior at rear of cockpit would be painted grey green. Just for neatness?  No significant weight impact, just another small cost I suppose.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

'AFAIK the red dope is the first coat, which is why it can be seen bleeding though the fabric.' (Troy Smith)

 

I agree Troy, first coat after the (normally clear)  tautening coat. What I can't recall is why we used  the red dope.  Do you know? And yes the next coat used to be called Aluminium; it was for UV protection. Thanks.

 

The red dope IS the taughtening coat. It contains iron oxide, hence the colour. I think that the iron oxide acts as a fungal inhibitor.

 

Basically, dope can be clear, coloured, shrinking or non-shrinking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

Intrigued you think the fabric interior at rear of cockpit would be painted grey green. Just for neatness?  No significant weight impact, just another small cost I suppose.

 

I don't.  This was a more general point about RAF Cockpits and internal colours, which are often thought to be all grey green,  when only the cockpit is, and the other internal bays are aluminium paint,  though this did change it seems in 1943 or 44.  

 

While I can bore for Britain on Hurricanes,  I'm not so up on Gladiators, and their construction, and if there were fabric covered panels in the cockpit, or more precisely,  visible while seated in the cockpit.  (for example, the Spitfire cockpit is grey green to the seat bulkhead, and aluminium paint behind  see here http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html   )

so if there was were areas visible while seated,  they would be painted grey green,  otherwise, as per the Hurricane above. 

 

The Hurricane in Finland, which has not been changed internally since it was built, 

 

The metal access panels for the Hurricane cockpit, just visible here, are painted aluminium, as is the rest of the internal frame work.  A tiny bit of red dope is visible by the flare tube.

 

42089303420_2bbde7a1a2_k.jpgHawker Hurricane Mk. I "HC-452/Black 5" by Nils Mosberg, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

I was a little tablet earlier, and it's a pain to use compared to a computer, so didn't dig any further.

 

A look about shows lower panels in metal,  so no fabric to paint grey green,  but

 

a look at the one in Sweden shows all grey green panels, and look unrestored. but the Swedes may have requested a different paint scheme, 

detail_gladiator_08.jpg

 

though this image of the Shuttleworth Gladiator  shows the lower cockpit in aluminium paint

 

7985%2020.jpg

From

 

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

At the risk of hijacking this thread, and since Spitfire cockpits have been mentioned, I have not been able to find a definitive answer to the question of the color applied to the open bulkhead at the rear of the section aft of the seat bulkhead. Given aluminum paint for the area, was the bulkhead aluminum as well, or green?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Troy. Super photos. Since I still have a half completed 1/24th scale Hurricane to detail I may use some of that to help prompt me.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently working on a Kora Fairey Gordon where they say it's all aluminium for the cockpit interiors.

 

Period's the same-ish, so unless there were manufacturer differences, maybe that's the answer for the Gloster Gladiator?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So far the only colour pics I has found were the shuttle worth restoration...and restorations can be as untrustworthy as profiles! The Swedish one is new.  But what Troy implies is fascinating...the area painted green (Humbrol 78 in old money) is defined as what’s visible to the pilot?  So not necessarily a case of external visibility (which might be a good reason not to have bright red doped fabric on show).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...