Tornado G.R.1 - Italeri 1/72 FINISHED!

[Scargsy]

OK with time running short on the GB and lots of other kits in various states of destruction  what better to do than to start another (actually I'm tempted to build a F117 for the GB too).

So I'd been planning to do this in the Tornado GB last year but didn't get around to starting it...

I seem to be continuing in my recent theme of yellow/brown or black vehicles!

It's a pretty basic kit, so hopefully not going to take a massive amount of time, I'm just planning on doing it straight OOB, there doesn't seem a whole heap of bits in the box, in fact Scalemates suggests it may have it's roots back in the 70s.

Instructions seem basic but adequate and decals look good, only possible issue is there are areas with what look like the body paint colour on them which might be a problem matching.

I'm planning to model it in-flight, as I kind of hate doing landing gear and balancing tail sitters on the flimsy legs (the instructions show adding 4g in one step and another 20g in the nose in another???)

Often trying to close up the undercarriage doors can prove a nightmare, unless the kit is designed to be friendly in that way, so the first thing I tackled was checking the fit, since it looked easier to get to the front doors from both sides before I've closed up the fuselage.

The rear doors fitted quite nicely (as seen above), they were just a touch proud from flush when first tested, so I simply needed to persuade them with some sandpaper on the upper side.

The 3 front doors looked like they might be a bit more of an issue - one nice thing on the kit is there are small attachment pins for them (I hate trying to superglue doors on post painting - but that's not of any help here.

Since the underside is pretty flat I attached the 2 forward doors by aligning them on a piece of paper then just running a little extra thin glue down the join.

Whilst that was setting I checked the parts on the interior, normally I'd stick a bit of plasticard or similar at the back of the doors so I cut out the wheel well to check - then I wasn't sure if the cockpit sits directly on that, so I cut out the floor and 2 end cheeks. They're quite nicely designed in that they both fit into small slots to keep the floor in the correct spot, I managed to dry fit them then run some glue in the seams (so the 3 bits are connected in the correct orientation) without hitting the slots so I can remove the cockpit again for now.

I was scratching my head for a while as to which way to orientate the front part (since the horizontal opening isn't central) until I noticed a small arrow on it (handy), also appears to be there in the instructions (though not immediately obvious).

I managed to nicely get the front doors in - just a bit of sanding down needed, one tip for sanding flat edges : place the sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the piece on the paper rather than the other way round (probably obvious to most people but it took me ages to work that one out!)

Managed to get a gluey fingerprint in as the thin solvent ran through from the other side but there's some holes etc. that will need filling and sanding back, hopefully it should cleanup nicely.

 

Once set I took a scrap piece of sprue and flattened a side down by sanding before gluing it on the inside of the doors to add some strength and added the internal wheel well too.

 

So that's it so far.

 

[Jabba]

Nice start, especially getting the U/C doors to fit.

[Charles H]

I'm doing this very Tornado GR. 1 kit! I am still pondering the job of filling the (notorious) misalignment of the fuselage halves; something I have never done before. I've got Tamiya Basic Putty (grey) and also Tamiya Laquer Thinner, as I just can't apply it well straight from the tube, in practice. Also have lots of grades of sandpaper and sandiing sticks, etc, and bought a little scribing tool, for re-establishing panel lines, after all the filling and sanding. All new territory for me. I am still practicing on old spare drop-tanks, which I've deliberately glued slightly misaligned.

 

I think I'm fairly competent on filling simple gaps between two flat surfaces, but I find it difficult with joins where one seam protrudes slightly over on one side - or of course, under, on the other side. And I have no idea which one is actually true, or thusly, which surface to attack, to correct. Maybe in 1:72 scale, I am being ridiculous here, and should just get on with it!

[Scargsy]

On 14/04/2021 at 15:04, Charles H said:

I'm doing this very Tornado GR. 1 kit! I am still pondering the job of filling the (notorious) misalignment of the fuselage halves; something I have never done before. I've got Tamiya Basic Putty (grey) and also Tamiya Laquer Thinner, as I just can't apply it well straight from the tube, in practice. Also have lots of grades of sandpaper and sandiing sticks, etc, and bought a little scribing tool, for re-establishing panel lines, after all the filling and sanding. All new territory for me. I am still practicing on old spare drop-tanks, which I've deliberately glued slightly misaligned.

 

I think I'm fairly competent on filling simple gaps between two flat surfaces, but I find it difficult with joins where one seam protrudes slightly over on one side - or of course, under, on the other side. And I have no idea which one is actually true, or thusly, which surface to attack, to correct. Maybe in 1:72 scale, I am being ridiculous here, and should just get on with it!

Hi Charles - can't say I'm brilliant at filling / sanding - but here's my take/results:

I've haven't tried the Tamiya putty yet but one thing I want to try is melting styrene sheet into Tamiya extra thin cement (chop it up, drop it in the bottle, wait) - apparently you can make a great filler that has the same hardness as styrene (well you're making a kind of liquid styrene) - the issue I usually have is the filler being different hardness to the plastic so you end up sanding away one faster than the other.

Anyhow I'm using AK white (hard) filler - just because it's what I have to hand and am familiar with, it dries pretty fast but it cleans up with water - meaning I can usually dollop some on, wait a minute then take the excess off with some moist paper towel.

Here's the fit I had with the kit - the panel lines don't meet up and there's gaps, plus a lump of extra stuff where I didn't neatly cut off the sprue on one side and a chunk missing on the other where I cut a little too close...

I like to fit as best as possible, then run extra thin cement all the way down the joins - holding them together as I go to try and get a good seam all the way round.

So my 'method' is to lather on some filler along the joins with an old blunt knife blade - it's pretty wet but not runny stuff...

The knife back/flat helps you get it squeezed into the holes.

Anyhow about a minute or so later this stuff is starting to go off, so out comes the slightly damp kitchen towel and I try and get as much gunk from where it shouldn't be.

Wax on, wax off...

I then let it dry, repeated on a few bad spots and wait a few hours till it's fully cured.

After that it's down to wet sanding - this filler gunks up the sand paper but as it's wet and dry paper I just need to occasionally clean the paper in some water...

Now it's not great and I may try another application or a finer grade smoothing paper once everything is put together but it's a lot better than it was to start with!

 

Other than that I've been trying to fit all the other bits and pieces, build up the drop tanks, etc.

A lot of the fit on the kit isn't great - for example those little key points where the air intakes go seemed too big so I had to remove them.

Since I'm modelling this in flight I'm going with fixed wing position (swept back) so won't be attempting the kit suggestion of melting the ordinance fins (not sure if that's the right word) so they can rotate and I can get a nice tight fit hopefully on the wing.

The air-intakes had some pretty bad fit and trying to get the refueling probe correctly aligned was a pain, there's a slight mark on the plastic if you look closely which helps but when semi-dried I had to check with the clear parts in place, to check they wouldn't foul (which is nerve wracking - in case you get glue on the clear parts and fog them up).

So here's where it's at, starting to look like a Tornado...

 

 

[Charles H]

Well, our putty applications look rather similar! I still think, trying it on scrap styrene, that it needs to be diluted with (Tamiya) Lacquer Thinner, but only by a bit. The lacquer thinner isn't friendly to styrene - and also the putty itself seems to leave an immediate "stain" on it (maybe simply a binding agent?). You're a step ahead of me - I will try it on my Tornado in the next couple of days.

 

cheers!

 

Charles

[Jabba]

Looking fine with it all in one piece. Getting the refuelling probe on most Tornado models aligned is not that much fun. A quick one the bomb dispenser that you show with all the other weapons is a MW-1 and was only used by the Luftwaffe. The RAF would fit 2 JP233s to an aircraft during the early stages of conflict and is a totally different weapon.

[Wandering Minstrel]

I'm midway through building this kit too and I've found it a struggle from the off. I used strips of plastic card to reinforce the horizontal fuselage joins and hopefully resolves some of the worst alignment issues but it's still taken a lot of filling and sanding to get things even moderately square. I've also found it a struggle to get the LRMTS to fit at all, and the general mess that's been assembling the underwing things has been somewhat demoralising.

 

Other than that, the kit's been a delight and I've been happy to indulge my wife's request for an aircraft with saucy nose art!

[Charles H]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks for replies - much appreciated. This newbie stuff must be a bit frustrating for some expert modelers to read, though!

 

Anyway, I diluted Tamiya Basic Putty (grey) with some Tamiya lacquer thinner, and applied it to my Tornado, with results similar to yours. When I used the putty undiluted on my previous MiG-29 model (sample size=1!) it absolutely looked like yours. I maybe diluted it too much this time, plus it shrinks on drying, as is indeed abundantly stated... and not necessarily a bad thing, perhaps(?)

 

I've got a LOT of sanding/scraping to do! Now, in experimenting [1] on scrap styrene, I found the following results in the last couple of days: I got a big 1:72 drop tank I don't need, and deliberately glued its halves together clumsily, so it ended up around 1/3 to 1/2 a millimetre or so out of true, all over. I attacked the horrible seam in sections, with different actions:

 

a) increasingly finer grades of sanding sticks (claimed to be 600, 800, 1000, 2000+ etc) - but these sticks seem too huge for an average sized 1:72 plane(?)

 

b) little bits of abrasive paper held in forceps (360, 600, 1200), followed by the finer grades of sanding sticks, as above.

 

c) scraping the "proud" side of the seam with a scalpel blade (or Excel, whatever, hobby knife) before applying abrasives variously, as above.

 

I was provisionally pleased with my scraping attempts, which I'd never tried before.

 

Next, I'll paint with Humbrol enamel primer, and see what this newbie experiment looks like. I've already learned you MUST prime before painting with Vallejo acrylics, which I need for this model!

 

[1] I was a research assistant in a physiology lab for 25 years, so it's what I do!

 

 

 

 

[Scargsy]

So some progress.

The multi-launcher (MW1) isn't getting fitted, it was just too large a couple of bits of styrene to not attach together!

 

I got all the weapons pylons, drop tanks, etc. attached - this is probably one of the worst parts of this kit. Since I'm going for a fixed wing position in the build I could better attach the pylons than simply melting the back sides to stop them slipping back out (as suggested in the instructions), this also meant I could fill the somewhat over-sized holes at the wing/body joins.

The drop-tanks have slots in the top for fit but the pylons don't have a corresponding tab! They also have angled sub-pylon but fitting these is a pain - one side on mine is now a bit too low! They also seem somewhat oversized when compared to photos (including the box art!).

 

So next paint and decals - and with only a week left what better to do than start another build in the GB (maybe some clues in those above pictures).

 

 

[exdraken]

Great progress!

By the way, we got a very welcome 2 week extension

use it well

 

[Scargsy]

So by the skin of my teeth it's finished!

Primed in Alclad brown primer.

I tried painting it in Xtracrylix to start with (great colour) but I seem unable to find anything to nicely thin it enough to get it through my airbrush! So I switched to Vallejo - using their US Desert Sand (71.140) modulating it slightly with a drop of 'red earth' for the underside and IDF Sand for the top. Sometimes I have issues with Vallejo airbrushing but it went on well (thought I'd overdone it but it self-levels nicely being water based).

Decals went on - I lost the nose 'stripe' as I had an accident with my Microscale decal-set, spilling it everywhere!

After that Tamiya clear - I can never seem to do nice clear coats, tends to be grainy rather than smooth? I then brushed a coat of Microscale gloss clear to better seal it.

After that a bit of Tamiya rattle can flat clear. 

I'd messed up when masking the cockpit (the main canopy split across the middle) - it was off centre so I'd just taped over the join (as can be seen above) before airbrushing. Unfortunately I'd kind of scored a little deep and scratched the canopy when trying to cut it before, but I masked up and brush painted (had to clean up the bleed through with a cocktail stick) - that covered the worst of the scratch I think!

I gave the whole thing an oil wash with a thinned brown filter and I;m going to call it done, not the nicest of kits, my filling and sanding skills still need some work but it's finished at least!

 

[Jabba]

This one seems to have been battling you all the way along its journey, but you have beaten it into submission. Well done.

[Charles H]

Great job, Scargsy! I'm still working on this Italeri GR.1 Tornado kit. Pretty much finished filling/sanding the ill-fitting parts of the fuselage join. Next, I'll be installing the weapons pylons, ordnance, etc, before priming (Humbrol matt enamel 01) and painting (Vallejo Model Color 70.876: Brown Sand was all I could buy locally).

 

One question, please... I experimented with painting (oil-based) Humbrol Gloss Clear Cote over this Vallejo acrylic paint, on scrap styrene, and slightly to my surprise, it seems absolutely fine. No peeling or flaking. Local hobby shop said it is OK, but only (as I did) by allowing the Vallejo at least a week to thoroughly cure. Does this make sense, or should I really get an acrylic clear gloss coat to use, when I'm ready to apply decals?

 

Thanks! 

 

cheers, Charles

[Scargsy]

On 31/05/2021 at 13:37, Charles H said:

Great job, Scargsy! I'm still working on this Italeri GR.1 Tornado kit. Pretty much finished filling/sanding the ill-fitting parts of the fuselage join. Next, I'll be installing the weapons pylons, ordnance, etc, before priming (Humbrol matt enamel 01) and painting (Vallejo Model Color 70.876: Brown Sand was all I could buy locally).

 

One question, please... I experimented with painting (oil-based) Humbrol Gloss Clear Cote over this Vallejo acrylic paint, on scrap styrene, and slightly to my surprise, it seems absolutely fine. No peeling or flaking. Local hobby shop said it is OK, but only (as I did) by allowing the Vallejo at least a week to thoroughly cure. Does this make sense, or should I really get an acrylic clear gloss coat to use, when I'm ready to apply decals?

 

Thanks! 

 

cheers, Charles

Hi Charles,

 

Sorry I missed your question!

I'm really not the best person to ask about clear coats, it's always very hit or miss to me so far -

I've used 'hot' (lacquer ones) and sometimes melt the decals a bit, or used acrylic and it goes on grainy (I think this is a thinning to airbrush pressure issue), or goes a bit cloudy/frosty (Tamiya flat - this is going too heavy BUT it doesn't show up until the paint completely dries, though I found a cotton-bud dipped in a little Vallejo airbrush cleaner helps remove the worst)

I have a bottle of the Humbrol Gloss Clear (the one with the red swish label which is acrylic, but I've yet to test it), I think the 'cote' is enamel based, should be OK if you've left the paint alone long enough (I do enamel/oil washes over acrylic with no issues so far), but I take no responsibility if it goes wrong! The best clear I've found so far is Mr Topcoat Gloss acrylic (haven't tried the 'super' stuff but that maybe harsh on decals) - only problem is it's expensive using rattle cans!

I'm planning to try the Microscale again and the Humbrol acrylic - thinned and brushed on with the biggest brush I can use (maybe not a Bob Ross 2 inch job though!), bigger brush = less brush marks, but less control!

[Charles H]

Please, what does 'hot' (lacquer) actually mean, Scargsy? I'm not even sure of the exact definition of "lacquer" itself, and although I vaguely know "acrylic" does not always mean water-based, I don't understand why.

 

Seems like you agree with my experiment, anyway (that oil-based gloss Clear coat, in preparation for decals, over very well-dried acrylic paint topcoat is OK). Thank you very much for your reply.

 

Now, looking at your wonderful photos, on the belly of the Tornado, just to starboard of the nose undercarriage, there is a part (A73) which is "supposed" to be there - some sort of quite large bolt-on "pod", which you haven't installed. Is that because the kit instructions are wrong, that it should be there? Just asking because I'd like to get things "right" as far as possible, as to the real Gulf War Tornado GR. 1 variant of the kit. I bloody somehow lost another part (a much smaller "pod" of some sort) near the port air intake (42B), which I carved up spare sprue to replace, with acceptable results.

 

This 1:72 Italeri Tornado kit sure has its issues! It is a bit daunting for a newbie - I have just discovered how hard it will be to install the IFR probe assembly, too! There's not enough room between the fuselage and the air intake to fit part B50 in, so I'll have to do surgery there. Maybe it's my assembly error, but margins for error here are low.

 

I WILL persist, however! 

[Charles H]

Please, can someone advise me on applying Humbrol enamel primer paint (Matt 01) with a flat brush (#4; "X.D.T brush 860")? I put the first primer coat on this blasted Italeri Op. Granby Tornado kit two days ago, and it has dried "puddly". I painted the belly first, then stood it on the installed undercarriage to paint the dorsal surfaces, using it undiluted. Should I thin it with Humbrol enamel thinners, and if so, by what ratio? It "crept" over the top surface of wing edges (etc) and formed a messy puddly line on the bottom edges, in particular.

 

I have spent ages sanding etc, to get it all smooth again, and REALLY just want to get on with it! The "puddles" weren't even 100% dry - under the [apparently properly dry] surface skin it was crumbly. The coverage is so uneven, too, all over! I know I need primer, as I am painting Vallejo acrylic topcoat, for the Desert Sand colour scheme.

 

The outside temperature here hovers around 5-15C at the moment, but when I've been painting, the heater is on for at least a few hours after, until we go to bed.

 

We're in total COVID lockdown here, so all hobby shops are closed, so I can't call anyone local. I'm confused as to when (or not) to thin enamel paints for brushing, whether primer or topcoat, but I know I need to thin the Vallejo acrylic topcoat with some water.

 

I've finally got all parts installed (after all the well-documented fitting issues), and just want to get it finished!

 

thanks,

 

Charles

[Scargsy]

Hi Charles,

 

Sorry for the delay - I seem not to be getting notifications from this thread anymore?

Also sorry to hear about all the issues you're having (and the lock downs in Australia - we do get some small news of it here, mainly via social media).

 

By 'hot' I mean chemically reactive and likely to activate/react with previous paint coats (unlike say water based products which tend to be ).

I agree that the terms like 'lacquer' and 'acrylic' can be a bit wide but lacquer generally refers to paints thinned with cellulose thinners and the like (several manufacturers make 'lacquer' paints now - Tamiya, Mr Color, Hataka, Zero Paints).

In my mind there are 4 kinds of paint (not in reality but in how I think about them):

Lacquer - strongly binds to plastic (chemically), dries quickly, applies nicely but chemically quite nasty substances, thinners reactivates paint so you get less issues with 'tip-dry' when airbrushing but brush touch-up can be a nightmare (pulling previous paint coat up) and can react with previous paint coats, also clear coats can melt decals!

Alcohol based - (standard Tamiya range, Mr Color 'Aqueous'), a kind of middle ground, can be thinned with lacquer thinners, alcohol or water), fairly quick drying.

Water based - (Vallejo, etc.), not as toxic as other paint substances / thinners (don't eat/inhale though!), slower drying - can be useful (blending / getting a smooth coat), I tend to find it very easy to flood surfaces with though - putting far too much paint down before it dries!

Enamel and oil based paints. Can be very slow drying (not always a bad thing if blending / etc.) - I don't tend to use them other than washes, use white spirit / odourless oil thinners to thin.

 

Regarding the small part on the underside - I think I know the one you mention, I think the instructions weren't overly clear and I only discovered it after painting so left it out!

The probe also I had some issue with fitting, though I did notice some small markings on the body to show where to fit it (a very small raised lip in the plastic).

 

I haven't ever used Humbrol primer so couldn't comment on thinning it, though it does sound like either it's not been well mixed (separated in the pot), needs thinning or has been put down a bit thick (which thinning would help with), have a look on the paint section in the forum, hopefully the question should have been answered there or someone might be able to offer help if you post your issue there!

Enamels can be very slow drying however (24+ hours) and I generally use the 'sniff' test for paint curing - if I can still smell paint on the model a couple of days later then it's not fully cured, even water based Vallejo stuff can take a few days in my experience to fully dry off. You might be able to wipe off some of the lumps with some thinners though, if not fully dry BTW.

 

Also I'd suggest to do some experimentation on some scraps of plastic (sprue parts, plastic disposable spoons, etc.) - e.g for putting water based paints over enamel primer (you'll want to ensure it's fully dry) and thinning the primer. I've used Vallejo primer (water based) before and tend to get good results with it (even as a colour coat) though I find oddly their black primer can go 'bitty' if I mix it with water (oddly seems fine with a few drops of their thinners and not had such issues with their paints / other colours).