USAAF 4th Fighter Group Spitfire (Tamiya 1/48 Mk Vb) * FINISHED 30 NOV (+ few extra photo’s)*

[Fritag]

12 hours ago, TheBaron said:

What can be said about work as crisp and smart looking as yours that hasn't already been said Steve?

 

How about too much hubris in stating that priming was imminent?  

 

Masked up the canopies using a mixture of an Eduard mask set (didn’t like it much and only used the windscreen front panel and I cut down the windscreen side panels just to use the bottom edge) and Tamiya tape.  So far so good:

 

 

Touch of interior green.  Had to be done but was a bit worried as the Mig Ammo paints aren’t very robust and I was concerned it wouldn’t adhere well without a primer.  I was right to be concerned as it happened…

 

 

 

Work to be done on the join between the windscreen and the fuselage.  It’s very prominent on the 1:1 as the windscreen framing stands proud.  Can’t do too much  about that but I can make the join junction stand out with some judicious scribing.

 

Meanwhile.  On a whim (danger warning) I oversprayed the framing with some Tamiya dark aluminium lacquer.  Thinking (without thinking) of possible chipping later.

 

 

Them started gently scribing and tidying up the canopy joins.  And the the paint just started peeling off…..and then the rear canopy decided to join the protest and detached itself.  Cyano?  hate it……

 

So masking off.

 

Paint removal in progress.  At least that’s easy

 

 

May or may not have to crash mould a new rear canopy.  Good job I kept the buck.  Not a big deal.

 

And then it’ll be round two!

 

Note to self.   Think things through a bit more. Might try to source some enamel interior green.  And possibly exterior colours too.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Fritag

[perdu]

Bugger!

 

Very brave using cyano on a model Steve, I hate the way it lurks quietly, acting as if it has done the job, then stands back shouting "Ha Ha Got You"

 

You will recall that Jamie at Sovereign Hobbies sells enamel, better known as 'tough enough for thin coats to stay stuck' paint.

 

 

As you can tell I also hate scrumbly acrylic paints too, they make layers not thin films on the models.

 

Tamiya and Gunze acrylic lacquers are far better because they make filmy coats rather than thick layers

 

The actual paint on the armoured screen looks pretty good (but there is a seam to attend to behind the cockpit back window and the ghost of one on the nose which I know you have in mind.)

[Fritag]

1 hour ago, perdu said:

You will recall that Jamie at Sovereign Hobbies sells enamel, better known as 'tough enough for thin coats to stay stuck' paint.

 

I’ve bitten the bullet and just ordered some colourcoats  inside and out paints from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Bill.  I was worried in principle about odour but I’ve got some of the colourcoats thinner as well which is said to be minimal odour.  I know I’m behind the drag curve in only trying colourcoats now.  I’ve always been a bit slow….

 

1 hour ago, perdu said:

The actual paint on the armoured screen looks pretty good (but there is a seam to attend to behind the cockpit back window and the ghost of one on the nose which I know you have in mind.)

 

It wasn’t that good close up Bill.  The whole peeling-off malarky just made the decsion to strip back and start again an easier one to make.

 

The seams are pretty sound I think. The visible lines on the photo are the residual cyano/Mr Surfacer hopefully perfecting the seam - rather than the seam itself.  Leastways that’s what I’ve told myself - don’t burst the bubble Bill 

 

Trouble is I’ve a tendency to over-polish the surface (possibly a modeller-specific anxiety condition which I’m quite surprised hasn’t found it’s way into the American Psychiatric Association, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), which seems sometimes to have the detrimental effect of pulling-out of the seam the very fine filling of Mr Surfacer or whatever - and leaving a really really fine visible line - which then becomes a vicious circle of fill-polish-fill-polish…….head explode……

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Fritag
typo

[perdu]

👌  Phew

 

I should keep my gob shut I know, promise to be more circumspect from now on...

 

Sorry, but not that you've ordered some good paint.

 

My future acrylics will only be Tamiya or Mr Paint-y with a non aqueous base.

 

[Terry1954]

This all re-enforces my own modeller-specific anxiety condition/observation ......... that the prep/prime/paint/mask/paint again cycle of our hobby seems to be far more fraught with challenges, than the good old put together/scratch bits/super detail cycle which I think I enjoy more! Maybe it's all the different brands/types of paint/filler/products we have at our disposal these days ............... or maybe I'm just getting old! I will say though that Bill's suggestion of Sovereign Hobbies paint is a very sound one.

 

Rant over. Tis all looking very fine indeed Steve, despite this slight setback.

 

And since this is a Spitfire thread, I thought it worth a mention that I had the pleasure of watching one of these beauties performing over the river Exe estuary most of yesterday afternoon. Came out of Exeter airport four or five times over the course of the afternoon. It looked like a two seat variant, likely offering the lucky passengers the ride of their lives! Must start saving up my pocket money for a ride sometime perhaps........ 🤔

 

Terry

[hendie]

UUurghhhh.  I know exactly how that feels Steve. It was all so going so well too.

Have you considered diluted PVA to hold that rear canopy?  It's a method that's never failed me yet. I do several applications over a few minutes. As each dollop starts to become transparent I wick in some more, and excess is easily wiped off while wet.  

Perhaps use cyano just to tack it in place, then use the PVA to do the hard work.

[Graham Boak]

I normally use one of the PVA-based products (KrystalClear and the like) for canopies.  I was under the assumption the cyano glue would tend to fog transparencies, so I never use it for those.

[Cheshiretaurus]

I'm finding UV cure glue good for transparencies (of course do the UV bit before painting) also have you tried MRP paints?

[The Spadgent]

Real shame about your paint woes. Looks like you have this in hand though. 👏 good luck with the next steps. 
 

johnny

[Fritag]

On 9/18/2021 at 1:51 PM, hendie said:

Have you considered diluted PVA to hold that rear canopy?  It's a method that's never failed me yet. I do several applications over a few minutes. As each dollop starts to become transparent I wick in some more, and excess is easily wiped off while wet.  

Perhaps use cyano just to tack it in place, then use the PVA to do the hard work.

 

On 9/18/2021 at 2:39 PM, Graham Boak said:

I normally use one of the PVA-based products (KrystalClear and the like) for canopies.  I was under the assumption the cyano glue would tend to fog transparencies, so I never use it for those.

 

I did use a PVA based product - Gator’s Grip thin.  But I only used small drops to tack the canopy in place before wicking in cyano to (purportedly!) do the hard work.  So the reverse of your method Alan.  P’raps I’ll reverse my approach.

 

I’ve read about the transparency fogging tendency of cyano - but never had a problem with that when using it on my PETG thermoformed canopies.  Dunno why.  But I’m generally sparing (seemingly too sparing!) with it .

 

Anyways.  The rear canopy cleaned up well.  No need to thermoform another one.

 

 

And after some hesitation - but distressingly little persuasion  I popped the windscreen off as well:

 

 

 

 

Deja Vu…..

 

I’ll probably (carefully) re-fix the windscreen with TET seeing as it’s the kit part and there’s fairly broad contact point to ‘fuse’.  I’ll wait for the colourcoats paints first to re-do the interior framing.

 

The rear canopy I’ll use the silver sharpie again to do the interior framing and just use thinned Gator’s Grip wicked around all the edges ala hendie.

 

In both cases I’ll try and make sure that the appearance of the join is as good as I can get it before sticking the transparency on - so as to minimise any work/pressure on the join afterwards.

 

I’m sure I’ve learned that lesson before…….

 

 

 

 

[giemme]

FWIW, before getting to know about Formula560 and Gator's Grip, I always used CA gel for canopies and the likes (except where TeT would have been suitable). It retains some sort of "flex" in it, which I think improves the join resistance (or resilience? )

 

Glad you were able to save the rear piece

 

Ciao

[Fritag]

1 hour ago, giemme said:

FWIW, before getting to know about Formula560 and Gator's Grip, I always used CA gel for canopies and the likes (except where TeT would have been suitable). It retains some sort of "flex" in it, which I think improves the join resistance (or resilience? )

 

Tried and failed to get a secure enough join earlier today using Gator's Grip wicked all around the edges.  I think the problem is a combination of the nature of PETG and the thinness of the contact edges (somewhere between 0.3 and 0.5mm) all around.  The Gator's Grip would have been ok if it was just a case of attaching the rear piece and leaving it but it wasn't up to any stresses imposed in trying to fill or otherwise improve the join.

 

Plan C next.  

 

There isn't a Plan C at the moment - but there will be one shortly 

 

 

[Terry1954]

44 minutes ago, Fritag said:

Plan C next.  

 

There isn't a Plan C at the moment - but there will be one shortly 

 

Watching with interest. Having similar challenges on the glider canopies!

 

Terry

[giemme]

1 hour ago, Fritag said:

The Gator's Grip would have been ok if it was just a case of attaching the rear piece and leaving it but it wasn't up to any stresses imposed in trying to fill or otherwise improve the join.

Hence the CA gel. Might be worth a try...

 

Ciao 

[rob85]

I’m with G, I’ve been using the Gel super glue a lot of late and appears to be working well, especially with plastics that are tricky to glue. Also I find the gel isn’t instant bonding like some thinner glue, gives a little time and wiggle room.

 

it’s looking the business though! As I would expect in your very capable hands.

 

Rob 

[Fritag]

11 minutes ago, giemme said:

Hence the CA gel. Might be worth a try...

 

May as well.  I’ve got some thick Cyan - I’ll try that.

[Terry1954]

15 minutes ago, Fritag said:

May as well.  I’ve got some thick Cyan - I’ll try that.

 

Is thick Cyan the same as Gel?

 

I think my frosting issue was down to small enclosed canopy, little airflow other than down the wheel hole at the rear lower end of the cockpit. You might be OK given the the fact it's more open to air and it's not polystyrene ....... maybe!

 

Terry

[Cheshiretaurus]

51 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

May as well.  I’ve got some thick Cyan - I’ll try that.

eeeek....Cheapest replacement kit at the moment seems to be Model hobbies....  fingers crossed

[perdu]

Is it still only September???

[Fritag]

Been faffing rather getting a neat attachment of the fixed transparencies and (obviously) knocked-orf the gun sight in the process.  Just about back to where it was 10 days ago now……

[perdu]

Glad I asked, me that is.

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Fritag said:

Been faffing rather getting a neat attachment of the fixed transparencies and (obviously) knocked-orf the gun sight in the process.  Just about back to where it was 10 days ago now……

 

Tell me about it. Having similar recursive troubles here mit dem  Segelflugzeug herr Fritag!

 

This modelling lark can be a right pain!

 

Terry

[Fritag]

2 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Having similar recursive troubles here mit dem  Segelflugzeug

 

Well, as I said above, I'm back to about where I was 10 days ago before the recursive troubles (nice phrase Terry) began.

 

I got the rear fixed transparency back on - having spent a fair bit of time fettling a better fit - only then to knock the gunsight off and have to start again:

 

 

Made it second time around out of some fine copper wire stuck into a couple of 'oles drilled into the body of the gunsight:

 

 

Isn't any better or worse than the first one:

 

 

And now the fixed transparencies are masked up again.  Deja Vu.

 

I s'pose one new thing is that I've added a bit of interest to the windscreen by adding some 0.1mm strips to pretend to be the flanges at the edges of the bullet proof windscreen.

 

What can't be seen is that I've scribed the bottom edge of the windscreen side frames.

 

The windscreen lower edge isn't the shape that Tamiya have moulded.  So when you stick the windscreen on - you either get a visible lower edge of the canopy that's the wrong shape - or you blend the windscreen in and then don't have a defined lower edge of the windscreen at all.  So I faffed about scribing a new line - but we'll have to wait until it's primed to see if looks any better....

 

 

Believe it or not that's several (albeit short) modelling sessions worth of faffing.

 

More faffing when I'm back from Scotland in a little over a week's time.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Fritag said:

Believe it or not that's several (albeit short) modelling sessions worth of faffing.

 

I can well believe that Steve, and I will say it shows that recursive troubles require recursive perseverance to resolve, and to me that looks resolved. Also like that neat solution to the lower front windshield.

 

May your travel to Scotland be blessed with sufficient fuel supplies!

 

Terry

[hendie]

Recursive - using the same expletive repeatedly. I like it.

Steve, have you considered GS Hypo for the transparencies. I've had good luck with that on several builds, especially when using vac-form transparencies.  It has precision application, and retains a certain amount of flexibility when cured.

 

Enjoy the Big Country