Tamiya x-21 with lacquer paints?

[Michael Morris]

I presently use mainly Tamiya lacquer paints for airbrushing.  I would like to try using X-21 flat base with a couple of colours that Tamiya only produce as gloss paints.  I know that Tamiya acrylics are not true acrylics, but rather are alcohol-based.  So here is my question.  Has anyone tried using X-21 with a lacquer-based paint?

 

Thanks

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Their lacquer thinner will thin their acrylics too, so I can't see why it wouldn't work 'in theory'.  Is there a reason you want to matt the paint before you apply rather than  applying a matt varnish afterwards though?

cheers

Jonners

[Michael Morris]

3 minutes ago, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:

Is there a reason you want to matt the paint before you apply rather than  applying a matt varnish afterwards though?

Yes.  I need to paint lots of small areas of a colour which need to be matt on a background colour of white gloss.  It would be much simpler to do this with Matt paint than gloss paint then Matt top coat.

[Michael Morris]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

Didn't work when I tried it with Humbrol enamel

Wouldn't expect it to.  Have you tried Tamiya's version of X-21 for enamels?

https://www.car-model-kit.com/x-21-flat-base-enamel-paint-x21-tamiya

[Stef N.]

Are the lacquer flat bases no good or are you just going with what you already have on the shelf?

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

6 hours ago, Michael Morris said:

Yes.  I need to paint lots of small areas of a colour which need to be matt on a background colour of white gloss.  It would be much simpler to do this with Matt paint than gloss paint then Matt top coat.

Well this afternoon I mixed up some X-21 flat base with LP-20 ( Light gunmetal) and LP-11 ( Silver). Thinned with Tamiya lacquer retarder thinner and airbrushed onto some RAF Mk III lightweight RP rails,  It dried extremely matt.

I used two large brushfuls of it with about a total of 4 brushfuls of paint and then about twice as much thinner, and I'd say I overdid the X-21 by loads, but then I was just doing it as an experiment. ( interestingly with this amount of matting agent in metallic you get a very, very flat grey speckled fined which could have a use I'm sure)

So in short: does it intermix with Tamiya lacquer paints? Yes. Will it thin with Tamiya lacquer thinner too? Yes.

cheers

Jonners
 

[Michael Morris]

10 minutes ago, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:

Well this afternoon I mixed up some X-21 flat base with LP-20 ( Light gunmetal) and LP-11 ( Silver). Thinned with Tamiya lacquer retarder thinner and airbrushed onto some RAF Mk III lightweight RP rails,  It dried extremely matt.

I used two large brushfuls of it with about a total of 4 brushfuls of paint and then about twice as much thinner, and I'd say I overdid the X-21 by loads, but then I was just doing it as an experiment. ( interestingly with this amount of matting agent in metallic you get a very, very flat grey speckled fined which could have a use I'm sure)

So in short: does it intermix with Tamiya lacquer paints? Yes. Will it thin with Tamiya lacquer thinner too? Yes.

cheers

Jonners
 

Brilliant, thank you.

[Michael Morris]

48 minutes ago, Stef N. said:

Are the lacquer flat bases no good or are you just going with what you already have on the shelf?

Bu**er, just spotted that Tamiya do a lacquer flat base (LP-22)!  I looked for one before I posted, but completely missed it.  Tamiya's really does have a completely inconsistent paint numbering system.

[Stef N.]

56 minutes ago, Michael Morris said:

Bu**er, just spotted that Tamiya do a lacquer flat base (LP-22)!  I looked for one before I posted, but completely missed it.  Tamiya's really does have a completely inconsistent paint numbering system.

In fairness if you didn't ask the question we wouldn't have got Jonners brilliant answer. And as I am veering to lacquers a lot more it comes in handy to know my shelf of old tamiya acrylics are not as redundant as I thought.

[GPBooth]

On 4/11/2021 at 3:20 AM, Michael Morris said:

I know that Tamiya acrylics are not true acrylics, but rather are alcohol-based.  So here is my question.  Has anyone tried using X-21 with a lacquer-based paint?

 

Thanks

A "true acrylic"?  What's that???

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_paint

 

"Otto Röhm invented acrylic resin, which was quickly transformed into acrylic paint. As early as 1934, the first usable acrylic resin dispersion was developed by German chemical company BASF, which was patented by Rohm and Haas. The synthetic paint was first used in the 1940s, combining some of the properties of oil and watercolor.Between 1946 and 1949, Leonard Bocour and Sam Golden invented a solution acrylic paint under the brand Magna paint. These were mineral spirit-based paints [My bold]."

 

Golden today offers a similar product with it's MSA paint line (ie: mineral spirit acrylics)

 

Short answer: yes, what you propose will work, as Johnners demonstrated.  By the by, tamiya's acrlic line paints are miscible with GSI-Creos' Mr. Color lacquer paints, also, so you could use Mr. Color 30 Flat Base Standard in a pinch if lacking the Tamiya.

 

Sincerely, 

 

A. Pedant

 

 

[Michael Morris]

5 hours ago, GPBooth said:

A "true acrylic"?  What's that???

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_paint

 

"Otto Röhm invented acrylic resin, which was quickly transformed into acrylic paint. As early as 1934, the first usable acrylic resin dispersion was developed by German chemical company BASF, which was patented by Rohm and Haas. The synthetic paint was first used in the 1940s, combining some of the properties of oil and watercolor.Between 1946 and 1949, Leonard Bocour and Sam Golden invented a solution acrylic paint under the brand Magna paint. These were mineral spirit-based paints [My bold]."

 

Golden today offers a similar product with it's MSA paint line (ie: mineral spirit acrylics)

 

Short answer: yes, what you propose will work, as Johnners demonstrated.  By the by, tamiya's acrlic line paints are miscible with GSI-Creos' Mr. Color lacquer paints, also, so you could use Mr. Color 30 Flat Base Standard in a pinch if lacking the Tamiya.

 

Sincerely, 

 

A. Pedant

 

 

I was using the term 'acrylic' in the vernacular usage, i.e. a water-based acrylic paint, rather than the strictly correct meaning you so correctly alluded to.

I suppose we could really do with splitting so-called acrylic paints into two distinct categories, water-based acrylics and solvent-based acrylics.

Yes I know this too is strictly incorrect as water is a solvent, but for all practical purposes it is a useful short-hand distinction.

A. N. Other Pedant 😁