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Dido class light cruiser.


Faraway

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1 minute ago, EwenS said:

 

Looking at that pair of photos, it appears to me that the turret roofs are darker than the turret sides and hull. The upper part of the gun barrels then seems to match the turret roofs.

 

Would that darker colour match the colour of her steel decks?

Now you’ve pointed it out, I see the colour on the turret roof is possibly the same as the upper surface of the gun barrels. As for the deck, that’s possible, I guess.

Jon

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15 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

My father-in-law served on HMS Dido in the Med and the Russian convoys; unfortunately he's not about to ask about camo.

Iain. That is now the problem, the questions we should have asked, but now too late. My reason for this build, which I will dedicate to him, is in memory of someone I never met, and who might well be in one of the photos, but whose death affected others very deeply. 
Jon

Edited by Faraway
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Hi Jon

Checkecd "British Cruisers of WW2", Raven and Robert and Friedman's "British Cruisers".  Nothing I'm afraid.

I think the boys have done a good job above.  Jamie has captured the line drawing in "Warship Perspectives " by Raven and his profile is clearer than if I copy the original

There's this further pic purporting to be Hermione From UBoat.net   https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/1817.html

 

All the evidence seems to suggest Home Fleet Grey 507A as Jamie has alrady said for most of her time at war

Rob

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2 hours ago, Our Ned said:

In Photo A9403, the southern (left-hand) carrier appears to be INDOMITABLE (what can be made out of the camouflage pattern matches, and, in A8890, she seems to have a larger for'd lift, and the deeper for'd 4.5" gun sponson of this ship); the camouflage pattern on the northern carrier appears to match Illustrious.  I have seen a photo similar to the one iang describes, showing Hermione from her port quarter, with Devonshire behind her and Ramilles off Hermione's starboard quarter.  The aspect matches that which would be visible from the northern carrier's position.    As iang says, the quality of the photo is not ideal, and any camouflage pattern is rather indistinct!

 

A later (or earlier?) photo taken looking to seaward (IWM A9404) shows Devonshire much further offshore, so that ship may have been under way when the photo with the motor boat was taken.

Yes, the carrier in A8890 is definitely Indomitable. I clearly had a senior moment with A9403.

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22 hours ago, Our Ned said:

As completed....  She seems to have worn overall medium grey (presumably AP507A) from completion, but was repainted in a two-colour angular pattern at some point in early 1942 - I've only seen a very indistinct photo of this scheme, although there is a drawing of her port side in Alan Raven Camouflage Vol Two: Royal Navy 1942 (New York: WR Press, 2001).

 

Raven is obviously wrong with his "early 1942" and "By May of 1942 " repaint to an angular pattern as Hermoine was still in her (much weathered) overall scheme at the time of her involvement in Ironclad during May 1942. Where have you seen this very indistinct photo please?

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Raven wrote "By may [sic] of 1942 ..." and "... by computer enhancement of a poor photo ...", which led me to look at Ironclad photos as a potential source of his drawing of a port-side pattern.

 

As ever, interpretation of grainy long-range B&W photography is "challenging".  My take, for what it's worth, is that IWM photo A9403 may show some sort of pattern, which, I agree, is not obvious in photos taken from sea level off Diego Suarez.  That said, the difference in shades of various segments of the ship's side in the aerial views are quite pronounced - and the segments don't change between the three IWM photos to which I referred earlier.  The segments could be shadow effects - but I'm hard put to think of any parts of Hermione which could cast such shadows.

 

As Hermione and Ramillies anchored off Diego Suarez on the evening of 7 May, and (if the IWM date is correct) the photo was taken on 13 May (although another source states that Hermione was released to join the Mediterranean Fleet on 10 May), I wonder if the Commander took the opportunity of a time at anchor to paint ship?

 

 

 

Edited by Our Ned
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42 minutes ago, Our Ned said:

...My take, for what it's worth, is that IWM photo A9403 may show some sort of pattern, which, I agree, is not obvious in photos taken from sea level off Diego Suarez.  That said, the difference in shades of various segments of the ship's side in the aerial views are quite pronounced...

 

 

 

There is a destroyer (A-I Class) alongside Hermoine in those aerial photos. It is the destroyer's pattern.

 

Here is a photo of Hermoine at the same anchorage - no sign of the pattern on her: 

Hermione 1942 5 Ironclad b

 

Edited by dickrd
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Thank you - it seems I may have jumped to an unjustified conclusion; I wonder if Alan Raven did the same?  The destroyer may well be HMS Anthony - the other three mentioned in reports were, by this stage, offshore, according to some references (eg Battle Summary).

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This is the clearest picture I have. I believe it shows RFA Derwentdale in the foreground. It confirms Dick's observation that Hermione was not in the camouflage scheme depicted by Alan Raven during Ironclad.

 

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Edited by iang
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8 minutes ago, iang said:

This is the clearest picture I have. I believe it shows RFA Derwentdale in the foreground. It confirms Dick's observation that Hermione was not in the camouflage scheme depicted by Alan Raven.

 

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@iangThanks for this, I’ve 90% sure I’ll be painting her as per this photo

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205139979

Plain grey with darker on the turrets, not sure if I’ll be able to do the wavy line on the barrels, they might be a bit small.

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While on the subject of Dido class cruisers, could anyone venture a positive ID on this one please? It is from a photo album/journal compiled on Eagle during 1940/41, that contains many photos of RN ships at Alexandria.  It has been identified by the compiler as Bonadventure, but from the erased notes to the right of the photo this seems tentative. The photo is also facing a page detailing Eagle's operations in July 1940 and Bonadventure did not arrive at Alexandria until January 1941.

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Apologies for the scan quality. My scanner has just died and so I'm using an integrated printer/scanner, which has its limitations.

Edited by iang
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I suspect Ian's photo does indeed show Bonaventure (no "d"); the scanned photo is too indistinct to make out the obvious clincher (lack of "X" 5.25" turret), but the camouflage pattern does match other views said to be of the same ship (one taken from HMS York's quarterdeck, and another showing her in Piraeus - both from the port bow).  A further photo showing her port side, apparently taken in Suda Bay, shows the same pattern from the bridge forwards, and on both funnels, but with the hull aft of the bridge all in the darker of the two shades - perhaps she was part-way through a repaint at that stage?

Edited by Our Ned
typo
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On 12/04/2021 at 22:13, Our Ned said:

As completed, HMS Hermione was very similar to Naiad; the only obvious differences were in the RDF (radar) fit.  NAIAD carried AW.279 aerials at her mastheads, whereas Hermione carried AW.281, plus SR 284 on her LA.DCT above the bridge.  In November 1941, Hermione's two quadruple 0.5" gun mountings were removed, and five single 20mm Oerlikons were fitted.  She seems to have worn overall medium grey (presumably AP507A) from completion, but was repainted in a two-colour angular pattern at some point in early 1942 - I've only seen a very indistinct photo of this scheme, although there is a drawing of her port side in Alan Raven Camouflage Vol Two: Royal Navy 1942 (New York: WR Press, 2001).

@Our Ned once the kit arrives and I get a look at the parts and instructions, then I’ll know what I’ll have to replace(if the parts exist to do it) to change from Naiad to Hermione. And as this is my first go at altering a kit, I don’t really know where to start, I will undoubtably be in touch, hope that’s ok ?

Jon

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For a look at the parts and instructions of the basic version of the Flyhawk kit, see http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/hms/cl/Naiad-700-fh/FlyHawk-Review.html.  The photo-etch fret contains parts for quite a good representation of RDF Type 279; Type 281 had smaller aerials, which are not included, but are available from various aftermarket producers, as is Type 284 (in various configurations).  Disregard comments about Type 281 - see dickrd's later email.  Depends how accurate you are planning to be!  If you're intending to depict Hermione after November 1941, you will need to source five 20mm Oerlikon guns - these are not included in the kit, but are widely available as aftermarket items (to varying level of accuracy!).  The photo-etch in the "deluxe" edition doesn't help with either the RDF changes of Oerlikons.

 

There is a build of the kit depicting Hermione in July 1941 at http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cl/hms/Hermione-350-dh/index.htm; however, the builder has retained Type 279 aerials, and omitted the Type 284 aerial.

Edited by Our Ned
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39 minutes ago, Our Ned said:

For a look at the parts and instructions of the basic version of the Flyhawk kit, see http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/hms/cl/Naiad-700-fh/FlyHawk-Review.html.  The photo-etch fret contains parts for quite a good representation of RDF Type 279; Type 281 had smaller aerials, which are not included, but are available from various aftermarket producers, as is Type 284 (in various configurations).  Depends how accurate you are planning to be!  If you're intending to depict Hermione after November 1941, you will need to source five 20mm Oerlikon guns - these are not included in the kit, but are widely available as aftermarket items (to varying level of accuracy!).  The photo-etch in the "deluxe" edition doesn't help with either the RDF changes of Oerlikons.

 

There is a build of the kit depicting Hermione in July 1941 at http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cl/hms/Hermione-350-dh/index.htm; however, the builder has retained Type 279 aerials, and omitted the Type 284 aerial.

@Our Ned Thanks for this info.

looks like I’ll be searching the web for a while.

Jon

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On 4/12/2021 at 10:13 PM, Our Ned said:

As completed, HMS Hermione was very similar to Naiad; the only obvious differences were in the RDF (radar) fit.  NAIAD carried AW.279 aerials at her mastheads, whereas Hermione carried AW.281, plus SR 284 on her LA.DCT above the bridge....  

Sorry but I don't agree with with the idea that Hermoine had Type 281. She had Type 279 just like Naiad. Photos show this (as does contemporary documentation): 

Type 279 Naiad and Hermoine

 

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59 minutes ago, dickrd said:

Sorry but I don't agree with with the idea that Hermoine had Type 281. She had Type 279 just like Naiad. Photos show this (as does contemporary documentation): 

Type 279 Naiad and Hermoine

 

Being a complete novice here, what am I looking for in the two photos ?

Jon

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44 minutes ago, Faraway said:

Being a complete novice here, what am I looking for in the two photos ?

Jon

 

The antennae at the top of the masts are the same on both Naiad and Hermoine and match the appearance of Type 279 rather than Type 281. 

Type 279 and Type 281

 

Type 281 on a Dido looks like this: 

Type 281 on Dido

 

 

Edited by dickrd
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9 hours ago, iang said:

While on the subject of Dido class cruisers, could anyone venture a positive ID on this one please?

 

No question in my mind Ian: Bonaventure. No other Dido wore that camouflage pattern.

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Apologies - I have no idea I have discovered why I had listed Hermione as carrying Type 281.  A (very) old reference (Alan Raven & H T Lenton Ensign 2: Dido Class Cruisers (London: Bivouac Books, 1973)) stated "... the Hermione (WA.281) had radar control (AR.285) fitted to the HA.DCTs ..." - I realised the latter was incorrect but so was the former, which I didn't check - apologies to those I may have confused - and thanks to dickrd for correcting me.  I will amend my previous posts.😬

Edited by Our Ned
Found why!
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