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SAAF Spitfire Vc - Wrap around colour on wing leading edge


Olmec Head
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I am about to brave the new Airfix Vc for the African GB here on Britmodeller.  I looking to do the SAAF version with the kit markings, if only because this photo always sums up Allied air power in WW2:

 

Spitfire-MkVcTrop-SAAF-2Sqn-DBH-on-missi

 

 

But can anyone point me at the leading edge colours please?  @tonyot in his recent posts on the kit wasn't sure if it was the azure blue wrapped around the wing or if it was an elongated yellow ident band.  It looks a nice scheme, but does anyone have any SAAF references on the leading edge colours please?  

 

I could always do it 'Malta Blue', that would add controversy. 

 

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Note the darker cannon bay covers too,...... and the red tips to the tailplane,.... could the covers be red too? 

Edited by tonyot
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13 minutes ago, tonyot said:

could the covers be red too? 

Now that you have mentioned it, and I have had another hard look at that famous photo, it sure does look like the blister fairings and panels are red, as the paint  looks to match the spinner and the red tail plane tips. Sure wish we had its serial and codes- that would be a killer  modeling project. On the  same subject, the more I look at that paint on the leading edges of the wings,  the more it looks like it's either yellow or azure blue- whatever the color, it is the same on the inner and outer bands, but to these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs, the bands seem to be the same shade  as the paint on the Vokes filter. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, the leading edges were painted with fresh azure blue due to the excessive chipping to the leading edges caused by taxying and landing/taking off on dirt strips? There appears to be very little chipping and/or paint erosion on the leading edges of any of the Spits in the formation, so the paint must be pretty fresh, whatever the color- is this a great hobby or what?

Mike

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29 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Now that you have mentioned it, and I have had another hard look at that famous photo, it sure does look like the blister fairings and panels are red, as the paint  looks to match the spinner and the red tail plane tips. Sure wish we had its serial and codes- that would be a killer  modeling project. On the  same subject, the more I look at that paint on the leading edges of the wings,  the more it looks like it's either yellow or azure blue- whatever the color, it is the same on the inner and outer bands, but to these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs, the bands seem to be the same shade  as the paint on the Vokes filter. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, the leading edges were painted with fresh azure blue due to the excessive chipping to the leading edges caused by taxying and landing/taking off on dirt strips? There appears to be very little chipping and/or paint erosion on the leading edges of any of the Spits in the formation, so the paint must be pretty fresh, whatever the color- is this a great hobby or what?

Mike

Hiya Mike,... the Aircraft behind has the dark cannon bay covers too,..... and the red tail tips were a squadon marking. I reckon that the leading edges are Azure Blue and also that the spinner, cannon bay cover and tail tips are all red,..... but that is just my opinion,.... I have no proof.  

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2 hours ago, tonyot said:

but that is just my opinion,.... I have no proof.  

Well, we're either both  steely-eyed styrene surgeons or we're both clueless! On a different note, do you have any idea when HPM might be releasing their announced Beaufort Mk VIII conversion set? I wasn't aware that the nacelles were larger, but I guess that makes sense. The CE props will be a godsend! (Still waiting for the Beaufort I ordered a while back- is there one in that case you bought that has my name on it, by chance?) :giggle:

Mike

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The Beaufort Mk.VIII had P&W engines so the cowlings were not larger, if anything smaller (lesser diameter).  EDIT.  Oops.  See below.

 

Light leading edges were used elsewhere to reduce the head-on silhouette to make them more difficult to see for the defender.  So I suggest the same colour as the underside.

 

The inner cannons were set further forward in the wing to clear the feed mechanisms into the breech.  They look ok to me.

 

 

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Red cannon blisters on the wings seem to be a bit of a stretch to me, unless you have super-powers and can see colours in B/W photos: they could be Dark Green, fresh Dark Earth, Dark Mediterranean Blue or anything in between, red included. Then again, nobody could prove it wrong, if one were to paint them red on a model...

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On my version of this aircraft I just assumed the cannon covers had been painted off the aircraft in a different/non-matching/new coat of dark earth.

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4 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The Beaufort Mk.VIII had P&W engines so the cowlings were not larger, if anything smaller

Graham, I'm confused. The diameter of the R-1830 is listed as being 48 inches, and the diameter of the Taurus is listed as being 46 inches, so the cowlings and most likely the nacelles would be larger than those for the Taurus powered variants. The HPM P&W Beaufort conversion shows what looks like larger nacelles compared to those that come in the new Airfix kit.

Mike

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Thanks: I accept your measurements, accepting that the cowling outside measurement will be slightly different.  I would claim in self-defence that the longer "dustbin" appearance of the P&W engines give an opposite impression, but I may have been influenced by problems in obtaining suitable cowlings for such a conversion because of kits (notably MPM) providing cowlings more suitable for Hercules - which I believe is indeed wider.  I had assumed that the Taurus cowling was much the same diameter as that of the Hercules.

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9 hours ago, malpaso said:

On my version of this aircraft I just assumed the cannon covers had been painted off the aircraft in a different/non-matching/new coat of dark earth.

The conversion to 4 cannon had apparently been done on Malta, which would have had a large supply of bulged panels left over from Spitfire attrition and salvage.   So maybe Dark Mediterranean Blue is the likeliest option?  Nonetheless, I think Dark Earth is perhaps a better choice.

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14 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Now that you have mentioned it, and I have had another hard look at that famous photo, it sure does look like the blister fairings and panels are red, as the paint  looks to match the spinner and the red tail plane tips. Sure wish we had its serial and codes- that would be a killer  modeling project. On the  same subject, the more I look at that paint on the leading edges of the wings,  the more it looks like it's either yellow or azure blue- whatever the color, it is the same on the inner and outer bands, but to these tired old Mk 1a eyeballs, the bands seem to be the same shade  as the paint on the Vokes filter. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, the leading edges were painted with fresh azure blue due to the excessive chipping to the leading edges caused by taxying and landing/taking off on dirt strips? There appears to be very little chipping and/or paint erosion on the leading edges of any of the Spits in the formation, so the paint must be pretty fresh, whatever the color- is this a great hobby or what?

Mike

I'd say DB-H of 2sqn SAAF? There are photographs of that Squadron in flight, so it could be the same photo session.

 

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Just to thank you all for the information around the 2 Sqn SAAF colours as above.  I think if I built the new Airfix Vc it would be with wrap around lower paint- Azure Blue and the cannon panels being Dark Earth, red though attractive may well be a step to far.  It was interesting to see Graham Boak getting a possible 'Malta Blue option in for the cannon panels!

 

Having said all that, it is sobering to note and remember that the Airfix Kit SAAF markings version are for  JL115 which went missing presumed shot down by flak nr Khalkados 31-9-44 (from the Spitfire database).  I am a bit superstitious about building a model of an aircraft that failed to return.

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23 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Well, we're either both  steely-eyed styrene surgeons or we're both clueless! On a different note, do you have any idea when HPM might be releasing their announced Beaufort Mk VIII conversion set? I wasn't aware that the nacelles were larger, but I guess that makes sense. The CE props will be a godsend! (Still waiting for the Beaufort I ordered a while back- is there one in that case you bought that has my name on it, by chance?) :giggle:

Mike

LOL,.... I only bought two Beauforts,..... then two arrived from Airfix a a way to say thanks for some help that I gave them when the kit was being developed,....... keeping it quiet for 2 years was hell! 

Not sure about when the High Planes conversion is due,..... best to monitor their Facebook page. Most of the work is done apparently,.... just tweaking the parts to make sure they fit the Airfix kit.

https://www.facebook.com/HPMHobbies

 

All the best mate,

                          Tony    

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22 hours ago, Super Aereo said:

Red cannon blisters on the wings seem to be a bit of a stretch to me, unless you have super-powers and can see colours in B/W photos: they could be Dark Green, fresh Dark Earth, Dark Mediterranean Blue or anything in between, red included. Then again, nobody could prove it wrong, if one were to paint them red on a model...

Just matching up the known colours,...... red spinner= theatre marking,...... red tail tips= squadron marking,...... and the cannon covers are a very close tonal match,......., and I never said that they were definitely red,......  I did say "but that is just my opinion,.... I have no proof. ",..... but hey!

 

The third Spitfire looks to be an ex Malta aircraft,..... and it too has the light coloured leading edges.

 

Cheers

         Tony

Edited by tonyot
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I was going to query the redness of tailplane tips and cannon bay covers based on comparison with the roundel centres, but then realised these are SAAF machines and the roundel centres are going to be orange. :blush:

Colourful subjects for sure!

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Has anyone considered asking the SAAF museum or the local SAAF experts in South Africa (Murray Baxter and co, or Ettiene - he is on this Forum)

 

Tim

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Hi all

 

Chatted to our in-house expert Eric at the Durban IPMS meeting tonight (yes, we are back to in-person meetings). He suggested not to look too far off the norm - he suggests a book that may help and will look up the aircraft once I send him the squadron code. He said it is unlikely to be any color than yellow leading edges and a dark red around the guns, similar to other Spitfires. He is not aware of any SAAF spits having a scheme different to the AM requirements. Will revert once I have more feedback from him.

 

Tim

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Hi all

 

Found some pics and a potentially useful book - maybe helpful? @Olmec Head: PM me and I will share - cannot seem to post pictures into the text-post and I do not have Flickr or similar.

 

Tim

 

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