AFV Division / Regiment signs at El Alamein

[diablo rsv]

I am currently working on a Crusader Mk.III form the El Alamein period and looking at reference photos I have noticed that none of the vehicles are displaying the Division or Regiment/Unit signs. Would these have been removed during battle periods as the photos don't appear to be censored? I'm sure I have seen photos of Grants and Shermans with the signs so I don't know if it was just something that  applied to the cruiser tanks.

It would make tactical sense to have not displayed them.

 

  

 

Wayne

 

  

[John Tapsell]

It's not uncommon to see British vehicles in North Africa without any unit badges. It's not immediately obvious why this was the case but Crusaders in particular routinely suffered mechanical problems and so there was a fairly constant cycle of tanks going backwards and forwards to the maintenance and repair crews (quite apart from any battle casualties). Contemporary accounts suggest that crews might swap between 2 pounder and 6 pounder Crusaders on an almost daily or weekly basis, depending on what had come back from the workshops. Under those circumstances, it is not unlikely that there was little time or inclination to apply unit markings and the vehicles are likely to have circulated between regiments.

 

If the subject interests you, try to get hold of a copy of 'Alamein to Zem Zem' by Keith Douglas, a Troop Leader in the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry. He comments several times on the types of Crusader he was commanding and the fact that he swapped between the two types. Alamein to Zem Zem was written during WWII and published posthumously - Douglas died in Normandy on 9th June 1944, whilst on a dismounted recce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Douglas

[JackG]

Found a couple photos of T126053 that at least show C squadron markings, though are captioned 1943, so post El Alamein.

http://panzerserra.blogspot.com/2019/05/crusader-mk-iii-a15-cruiser-tank-6pdr.html

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Mike Starmer]

Look closely at the fronts of the track-guards on the first image .  Those scruffy patches are the censor's markings.   John is correct though.  Not all units carried the correct or even had unit markings due to the ground situation and ongoing events.  Generally these markings were properly applied during 'down time' and training when there was time and materials to do the job.  The idea of these marking was to allow the Provost Police to ensure that units were directed into the correct areas.    In the desert the use of these was often not necessary due to units being well spread out.  Alamein needed such control due to the limited area.  In Italy and NWE where vehicles were generally confined to roads they were essential.  Think for a moment.  How much road did an armoured brigade take up?  At 20mph convoy speed and 20 yds apart, it would cover 48 miles. And that has the tanks on transporters and the slowest vehicles.

[diablo rsv]

Many thanks for the information John @John Tapsell, Jack @JackG and Mike @Mike Starmer. 

I have tracked down a copy of the book John and look forward to reading it.

Wayne