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Help Cammo P-61 A tail number color!


Tokyo Raider

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Hi Guys...  hope you can help me!  

 

I am starting a great wall 1/48 P-61A, and building a Cammo version with Olive Drab over Neutral Grey...

 

I have many decal sheets and they all have the P61 tail numbers in RED, even for cammoflaged olive P61s.  I have seen profile art for Olive P61s with YELLOW tail numbers.  This is typical of USAAF olive cammo planes, that tail numbers are YELLOW.

 

But what was correct tail number color on Olive P61s?

 

Thanks for any help you can provide!

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There are a couple of contemporary colour photos of an OD P-61, 42-5507, in a feature in Wings of Fame Vol 15. The colour reproduction differs so much that I didn't realise they were both of the same aircraft until I read the serial but it's certainly red: one of the photos shows that unambiguously. There are black and white shots of 42-5512 (I think) and 42-5544 in which I couldn't swear which colour the serial is. The latter looks yellow to me but then the OD finish also looks a very light colour in that particular photo.

 

For what it's worth, there are colour profiles in the feature showing one OD P-61 with red serials and two others with yellow.

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1 hour ago, AWFK10 said:

For what it's worth, there are colour profiles in the feature showing one OD P-61 with red serials and two others with yellow.

Yes, i see many profiles in yellow codes on the OD p61s, just like the USAAF painted on ALL OTHER OD cammo planes.  I think red codes appeared on the factory painted all gloss black planes.

 

I am looking at b/w photos of OD p61s and there is contrast between the numbers and the OD, and the numbers are almost as light as the insignia white, which could only be with yellow codes.

 

The codes on black p61s appear darker than the codes on the OD p61s.  I was looking at the classic B/w photo of the 3 p61s flying in formation.  One OD with invastion stripes and others in black.  In that photo, the numbers on the OD plane look lighter than the numbers on the black planes.

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Hope someone knows the answer to this.  All decal sheets i have on p61s have red codes.  But why would USAAF have red codes on a OD cammo plane when the standard is yellow?

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Hi guys,

 

They should have been red, but I'm sure there were exceptions.  The revision to Spec 98-24105R of 20 September 1943 added the following note on radio call numbers for night fighters: "...except that the numbers for night-fighting aircraft shall be insignia red in accordance with color chip No. 45 of Bulletin No. 41."

 

This note came into the spec at the same time that the OD scheme was approved instead of the flat black scheme.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

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21 minutes ago, Dana Bell said:

Hi guys,

 

They should have been red, but I'm sure there were exceptions.  The revision to Spec 98-24105R of 20 September 1943 added the following note on radio call numbers for night fighters: "...except that the numbers for night-fighting aircraft shall be insignia red in accordance with color chip No. 45 of Bulletin No. 41."

 

This note came into the spec at the same time that the OD scheme was approved instead of the flat black scheme.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

ok thanks Dana...  I went back to the Creep photo, and at least this OD P-61 the tail number (Like Husslin Hussey) is clearly very light color, so must be yellow for at least for these two.  Maybe they were repainted?

Edited by Tokyo Raider
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Found this web site https://vistapointe.net/northrop-p-61-black-widow.html#google_vignette

 

A number of different aircraft both overall black and OD. It does show the serial numbers in red. One aircraft in particular is (so the article says) number 3 off the line. Hope this helps.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

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4 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said:

But why would USAAF have red codes on a OD cammo plane when the standard is yellow?

Likely because red is less visible at night, especially when reflected in moonlight and/or searchlight beams. Probably why the RAF used red codes and serials for night fighters and bombers and the USAF/USN/USMC for night fighters and interdiction aircraft in Korea.

Mike

 

As to why OD/grey P-61's had yellow serials, it might be for the same reason that the red surround to the national insignia remained in use long after it was officially discontinued- somebody either didn't get the memo or have the time/supplies to make the changes.  Since only the thirteen YP-61's and the first batch of P-61A's were painted OD/neutral grey at the factory, perhaps in the PTO red was still considered a no-no until the color for night fighter serials  was changed, as Dana Bell pointed out- thus the yellow serials.  Just a guess! (With it's distinctive planform, the P-61 could hardly be confused for a Japanese airplane, regardless of what color markings it wore!)

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Yes i considered the visibility issue, but then next to it is a huge white star and bar...  but it would lessen the visibility.

 

The red numbers on an olive drab photo are almost unreadable due to lack of contrast red to olive drab.  You can see this too in usaaf planes with red rimmed insignias.

 

However in THE CREEP photo, the numbers are far away and are just as bright and light against the olive drab as the yellow in the nose art and the yellow spiders on spinners.

 

I think maybe it was repainted in yellow?

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5 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

(With it's distinctive planform, the P-61 could hardly be confused for a Japanese airplane, regardless of what color markings it wore!)

I would be more circumspect, likely :) anything unknown and not clearly US would get some rounds sent its way, just to be sure.

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  • 2 years later...
On 02/04/2021 at 11:47, AWFK10 said:

There are a couple of contemporary colour photos of an OD P-61, 42-5507, in a feature in Wings of Fame Vol 15. The colour reproduction differs so much that I didn't realise they were both of the same aircraft until I read the serial but it's certainly red: one of the photos shows that unambiguously.

Some photos of 5507 here. Definitely red, but the above 3/4 shot in particular seems to suggest a yellow outline on the starboard side. Overpainted?

 

https://postimg.cc/gallery/YQyY7R0
 

Edited by Dave Fleming
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