advice about paint instructions?

[mrodent]

Resuming plastic model-making after a short break of 45 years or so (second childhood?), I bought myself a 1/32 model of the Mossie (Revell rather than Tamiya I'm afraid).

 

By using the Interweb's resources I was able to find the Revell page saying what paints would be needed, and then a page saying which Humbrol enamels these corresponded to. Then I went and bought the paints.

 

But I'm confused by two in particular:

1) various bits are to be painted, according to the instructions, "anthracite grey, matt" (9) .. this I believe corresponds to Revell paint 36109, as found here.

... and the corresponding Humbrol paints are found here: this says "85 + 49". 85 is "Coal Black" and 49 is "Matt Varnish".

Some other parts are to be painted with Revell "black, silky-matt" (302), which the Revell-to-Humbrol chart translates as 85... these (engine block) have come up pretty shiny, and essentially black.

 

For the "matt anthracite grey" I mixed the 85 and the 49 ... this produced something very odd. Is the idea to apply 85 and *then* apply 49 (matt varnish)? Various other sites seem to be quite disparaging about 49. And I can't understand why the Revell-to-Humbrol chart didn't say "use Humbrol 33" (matt black) - which I haven't bought yet.

So first question is: how best to apply some "matting" effect, on a small part? I can see that one might use a spray or something on a large part like a wing or a fuselage, but what about a small part?

 

2) one of the paints to be applied to quite a few areas here seems to be a mix of 3 Revell paints: 33% yellow, matt (15), 33% sea green (48), matt and 34% stone grey, matt (75).  This adds up to 100%, so I appear to have interpreted this correctly. But usually when you mix 3 paints of any colour you just get a horrible browny sludge colour. Is this the intention?  I find it difficult to believe that with all the Revell colours they couldn't have found 2 to mix to achieve the desired effect.  The parts of the aircraft concerned are the inside of the fuselage, pilots' seats (back and front), inside of the landing gear housings, inside of the engine housings, etc.

Anyway, I have bought the equivalent Humbrol colours (Yellow Matt, Sea Green Matt and Stone Grey Matt) and will try experimenting in a bit.

Second question: does anyone know where I can get an idea of the actual colours used on the real aircraft in such relatively inaccessible areas?

 

[ckw]

Many companies promote their own colour range which may not include the colours that were actually used, but are their closest approximation. Sometimes they will suggest a mix (but not always). If you then use this possibly inaccurate colour and translate it to another brand (using a conversion table which itself is going to be an approximate match in many cases) you are heading for a world of trouble.

 

Humbrol 85 is essentially a semi-gloss black. How shiny it is in application can vary - esp. with brush painting - it does need to be extremely well mixed before using. 

 

Anthracite grey is in fact a very dark grey. I have no idea where a mix of humbrol 85 and 49 comes from. Possibly something like Humbrol 32 would be better.

 

As for the interior - I think the colour you want is Humbrol 78 (cockpit green) which is a pretty good match for the green used by RAF WWII aircraft.

 

Ultimately, you best bet is to research the actual colour used - probably some 90% of the references for a colour match to the real thing will be found here on Britmodeller rather than trying to interpret the colours suggested in the instructions.

 

I appreciate you may be using Humbrol for reasons of availability/convenience, but I think most would agree that Humbrol is no longer the enamel paint it used to be. If you don't mind ordering on line, then the Colourcoats or Xtracolor ranges are both better paints and offer a better range of subject specific accurate colours.

 

If you are not wedded to enamels, you might also want to look at one or more of the acrylic paint ranges which have developed and improved immeasurably since you last modelled.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[mrodent]

Thanks! That's really informative. But also sad: Humbrol not what they were? What is the world coming to?

 

You say that 90% of these colours can be found here... so... where do I go looking for them? I just had a check to see if I could find anywhere and found this part of the forum (WWII aircraft) - and some of the questions do seem indeed to be about specific colours. But for something like the Mosquito is there a more specific part of this site where I can find the colours ... or do I just have to ask (and look at photos)?

 

Also you don't say anything about trying to turn a gloss into a matt ... I assume that implies that I should just use a matt paint where a matt paint is needed and forget about matt sprays or varnishes.

[Giorgio N]

Since this seems to be your first ever post, let me first of all give you my welcome to the forum !

I can understand your confusion, unfortunately Revell is well known for their way of suggesting colours in their instructions. Very simply the matter is that they have their own line of paints and they will either suggest the one in their range that look closer or a mix of their own paints.

So my advice is.. disregard their instructions ! Or better, follow the ones relative to the details but look at any mix as something for which it's necessary to do your own research.

For camouflage colours and the main cockpit colours the best way to find is... ask here ! Or search the forum, you will find that the camouflage scheme of your aircraft has likely been discussed before. Over time you'll learn what the main schemes are for your favourite subjects and which paints are best. More on your kit later...

For the various details really most of the time you don't need that many colours. A black is a black, at least in most cases. Anthracite is a very dark grey, you may use one or another and it may not make much difference... for example, they may suggest to use a certain dark grey for the tires... these things do not have a specific colour, once you have a dark grey that looks realistic for a tire this will do. Of course certain elements may show variations, for example an engine may have different shades of grey or metal. Best way to find out ? Google something like "dh mosquito engine" and you'll find plenty of pictures to use as reference. If you see largely different colours, you may need different paints, if you see only small variations you can still mix something that looks good enough from what you have.

Matt, semimatt or gloss finishes can be easily applied on small parts using a coat of a clear matt, semimatt or gloss paint. And yes, in this case you don't need to mix the clear paint to the original one, it's best to apply a coat on top of the paint. All companies have these in their catalogue, I'm sure Revell and Humbrol do as well. Keep in mind that these can also be mixed, so if you can't find a semimatt varnish just mix some matt and some gloss.

 

Now camouflage and cockpit... for these it is of course still worh googling to find pictures of the real thing, particularly the cockpit. It will give you a good idea of the various colours used on the many details, much better than any instruction sheet can do

The main cockpit colour is a different story: these were (not always...) specified by the end user, so it is useful to do some research. Colin's reply appeared while I was typing and you'll see that he suggested a specific colour, that is made to represent the colour used on British WW2 aircraft cockpits. Just using Humbrol 78 is much simpler than mixing the paints as Revell suggests
Same for the camouflage: I don't know what colours Revell suggests, in any case I know that these are meant to represent Dark Green, Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey... I have used capital letters as these are not generic descriptions, these are the official names used by the relevant authorities in WW2 to indicate specific colours. Once I know this, I can search for information on which paint best represents these colours, at least within the ranges locally available. For example in the Humbrol line Ocean Grey is 106 and Medium Sea Grey is 165. Dark green is a bit more complicated as they often suggest 30, but 116 and 163 are much better representatons... personally I would use 163, 106 and 165 for your subject. I mention Humbrol because they are paints I know, while I don't know Revell paints much..

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Giorgio N

[Giorgio N]

I forgot to add.... in doubt, just ask on the forum ! You're not sure of the best paints for a certain colour scheme or a certain detail? Just go to the relevant section here and post your questions, you'll find plenty of modellers glad to help you finding the answer.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Giorgio N

[ckw]

26 minutes ago, mrodent said:

But also sad: Humbrol not what they were? What is the world coming to?

Yes, unfortunately Humbrol has undergone a number of re-formulations over the years and sadly have nothing like the Humbrol authentics range of old (one of the best model paint ranges ever).

 

28 minutes ago, mrodent said:

But for something like the Mosquito is there a more specific part of this site where I can find the colours ... or do I just have to ask (and look at photos)?

Sometimes the answer you need can turn up in an unexpected section (it is not unkown for discussions to go off on a tangent!) So I would suggest using Google to search the site (unfortunately the site's own search engine is a little lacking).

 

For example, try the following in Google

 

mosquito interior color site:britmodeller.com

 

(that last bit restricts the search to Britmodeller)

 

32 minutes ago, mrodent said:

Also you don't say anything about trying to turn a gloss into a matt ... I assume that implies that I should just use a matt paint where a matt paint is needed and forget about matt sprays or varnishes.

Deliberately avoided that hornet's nest! There are various opinions on this as well as pros and cons. In my case, I am (almost) always going to give the exterior of the model an appropriate final coats to produce the desired matt/gloss finish and protect the decals, so it doesn't matter what finish the underlying paint is. My favorites Colourcoats and Xtracolor have a satin and gloss finish respectively. For interior details, I will usually use paint with the desired finish and not varnish. For details work I often use acrylics, partly because of the fast drying.

 

As to what varnish to use ... can open, worms everywhere! Though probably safe to say you should avoid the Humbrol tinned varnishes. A search on recommended varnishes will offer plenty of recommendations, including materials from the fine art world, or in my case, Future floor polish.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[mrodent]

Thanks again, both. Whew, this is already becoming quite involved.

 

Right, I think I've identified the interior Xtracolor (X010) ... slightly cheaper than Humbrol, which is nice.  But, at hannants.co.uk P&P £6. Min. spend £7.98. Ah. Hmm.

 

And also the Colourcoats: Colourcoats ACRN28 - RAF Interior Grey-Green... no doubt spends are similar at sovereignhobbies.

 

So for this present model I think I shall revert to mixing colours, by eye (this concept is probably sacrilege here), and matt varnishing (details and big areas) and for the moment stick with the 10 or so Humbrols I've already got ... with a view to switching to another brand when I've identified a need to get quite a few things from one of these places (though Giorgio seems OK with Humbrol). Ha. Opinions.

 

But it appears the next step search is to search on matt varnishes.  Unless I can get this Humbrol 49 to work, for details at least.  Winsor and Newton Galleria seems popular.

Edited March 31, 2021 by mrodent

[ckw]

12 minutes ago, mrodent said:

Unless I can get this Humbrol 49 to work

I really wouldn't waste my time - if for no other reason than it takes ages to dry properly (days). If you want to use a Humbrol varnish, try Matt Cote (comes in a glass bottle). More reliable and faster drying and does not go yellow.

 

15 minutes ago, mrodent said:

Whew, this is already becoming quite involved.

Yes - it can do - in recent years, the issue of paint has become very complex and confusing. As to the costs of buying online, this is because paints are now considered a hazardous material when it comes to shipping. A lot will depend on how committed you are to the hobby. If its just going to be the occasional model then maybe making do with what you can find locally may be the sensible thing to do.

 

If, like me, you've returned to the hobby as a big part of your life, you can apply some strategy to your purchases to make the shipping more paletable - for example, from Hannants you can combine paint with model purchases for the same shipping costs. As the kits are often cheaper than the local hobby shop, this helps offset the costs. 

 

Also - especially as you are just restarting - you will need a number of different paints, so by thinking of what you might need in advance you can stock up. If I need one or two colours now, I'll try and anticipate what I might need in a few months time and/or buy 2 or 3 tins of the same colour I know I will be using a lot of.

 

Ultimately, compared to 45 years ago you have many more options, and thanks to the 'net, much more (too much?) information. That said there is nothing wrong with going old school and building kits the way you used to. Whatever you enjoy more. But it is worth having a think about where you see yourself going in the future.

 

Cheers

 

Colin