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A Couple of Gals - Two Revell B-17Gs


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Just nipping in a bit late to sit at the back. Great start so far. Love to see a B-17, two already in the cabinet, so delighted to see the stash reduction program producing another one where I don't need to store it. 😁👍

Still got that E3 Sentry for you when you're ready. 😄

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On 02/04/2021 at 17:16, CedB said:

Aluminium has been started:

Perhaps for this project you should drop the "i" and we can all just call it "a-LOO-minum" for the duration 😎

Some a-LOO-minum Metal foil on the outside of these, Ced ❓👍

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48 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

Perhaps for this project you should drop the "i" and we can all just call it "a-LOO-minum" for the duration 

NO! Having lived in the US for 20 years that is NOT acceptable! 

 

Ian

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20 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Perhaps for this project you should drop the "i" and we can all just call it "a-LOO-minum" for the duration

A little known fact it was called alumium initially by its discoverer Sir Humphrey Davy, he then changed his mind and used aluminum, before finally changing it to aluminium in line with other metals  like chromium and sodium etc. 
 

So in the interest of annoying everyone equally I think you should refer to it as alumium from here on.

Edited by Marklo
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On 02/04/2021 at 17:16, CedB said:

 the 'leather' coat has been added to the 'wood':

 

 

 

Still wet but you'll see the effect later

Utter filth.

Disgraceful etc.

#marquisdeced

 

 

 

 

 

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Back to the airframe, that photo of Sleepy Time Gal doesn't have the deicing boots on the mainplanes that the decal profilist shows. It's hardly rare to find profiles that don't match photos, so I would always believe the photo evidence if available. 

 

I suspect some profilists just paste over a new colour scheme on their standard base fuselage drawing, to get them out the door / paid.  That said it was a popular song so there are multiple google B-17 nose photos of different airframes with her in varous shades of "déshabillée"!  Not to count many B-24s, B-29s and P-61s, so a mistake isn't impossible.  May be she took the artist's "eye out with that one"...

 

I read somewhere that the boots were often removed as if damaged (flak?) they became more of a menace than the ice!

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Well that'll teach me to go away for the weekend… :)

Let's see what you've been saying.

 

On 03/04/2021 at 08:41, tomprobert said:

Here we go, Ced: https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/amp/

 

Lots of great pictures and information here - this seems like a really accurate source of B-17 interior colours and certainly corresponds with all that I have found over the years. 
 

There is a mix of all models here - make sure you refer to the G-specific info! 
 

You’ll also see there’s not a spec of Interior Green in sight and the cockpit is the only area on the G models that has any type of paint - all other areas of the fuselage are bare aluminium. 
 

I hope that’s useful.

 

Tom

 

 

Thanks Tom, very useful. I'll make sure I follow the guidance :) 

 

On 03/04/2021 at 09:32, perdu said:

Nice dummy work Ced, I perzooms the footwear in that space belongs to Madam B.

 

Although there is no accounting...

 

The B-17?

 

Of ziss I know nozzings...

 

But looks like a good start.

Thanks Bill. Yep, Mrs B's space - my 'weekend shoes' are elsewhere :D

 

On 03/04/2021 at 09:52, The Spadgent said:

Great start Ced. No body does wood more good. (Or was that Willie  rushton? 🤣)  Nice fix on the 1:1 scale too. Correct me if I’m wrong but are you priming things these days? Interiors etc. sometimes I can’t be bothered then the paint goes on and I remember why I need to. “Enquiring minds are the devils tea spoon”. Or something like that. 😀 

Priming? Hmmm. I don't tend to bother priming internals as I usually brush paint and any filled ejector marks etc get extra coats.

Primer always required over different materials on the outside of course. 

 

On 03/04/2021 at 13:24, hendie said:

 

Bloomin 'eck Ced... does nothing survive with legs intact in your house?   

 

What was your excuse this time - wouldn't fit in the family limo?

 

(apologies for not being able to keep up recently. I'll try harder in future)

 

 

 

 

Nope. Legless here, usually. Red wine you know… :D 

 

On 03/04/2021 at 16:34, VT Red Sox Fan said:

CedB, I am going to follow along—along with some of the discussion topics on this thread which are a Britmodeller 1st for me 🤣 really impressed so far with your progress.  Really looking forward to how you will sort out plexi glass nose cone issue—the clear rim is a common pic at the Revell kit—I was not able to figure it out on my 1/72 Chow Hound—but if there is anyone who knows how to resolve this, it’s you—best, Erwin 

Welcome Erwin :) 

Nose cone issue? Not heard of that one…

 

On 03/04/2021 at 16:44, dnl42 said:

FWIW, the book Graphic War: The Secret Aviation Drawings and Illustrations of World War II by Donald Nijboer has a contemporaneous color cutaway illustration of the B-17. While it's a drawing, I suspect the colors are reasonably correct.

Thanks dnl :) 

 

On 03/04/2021 at 17:48, Johnson said:

Hi Ced,

 

May I squeeze in somewhere?

 

I have the same kit sitting on my SOS about 1/3 done. I lost one half of the fuselage, which takes some doing (later found down the back of the stash). But not before I'd carefully painted the inside - interior Green!

 

 

You live and learn. I'll tag along and hopefully learn some more.

 

Best wishes for the B-17 production!

Of course Charlie, good to have you onboard :) 

 

On 03/04/2021 at 18:36, Brandy said:

Hendie beet me to it. There must be a big container chez Ced with nothing but legs in it!

 

Looking forward to seeing how the woodwork turns out

 

Ian

Hendie beet you to it? There's a turnip for the books :D 

 

On 04/04/2021 at 01:26, stevehnz said:

Well, I'm here, I wasn't going to be, I mean, B-17Gs, I'm not interested in them, I've already got the Academy C/D & E to do in RAF finish & what do I need a -G for & I know if I follow this, before I know it I'll find I've a "need"?  Ced builds do that to me. :unsure:   Sooo, maybe I'll hang around for a bit. ;) :D

Steve.

Do hang around Steve, always good to see you :)

hazy IPA? Sure it's not 'off'?

 

On 04/04/2021 at 10:19, tomprobert said:

All B-17 models were devoid of interior paint - right from the prototype through to the final G to roll off the production line. 
 

Models up to mid-batch Fs had sound deadening in the nose cabin and radio room, but this was often removed in combat. This was dispensed with altogether from mid F batches onwards. 
 

Cockpits on all models were bronze green (or dark dull green) on exposed metal with olive green sound deadening material on the sidewalls - this remained until production finished. 
 

Interestingly, again up until mid-batch F model production it appears bomb bays were painted neutral grey, but I can’t pin down exact specifications for this. Memphis Belle, for example, had a grey bomb bay, but later Fs were aluminium. Confusingly, there are also numerous images of Bs, Cs, Ds, Es and and Fs with aluminium bays - therefore I conclude that there was much variation between manufacturing plants and batches!
 

Some Douglas-built F and early G models appear to have had their radio rooms painted, but again I can’t find specific productions blocks to confirm this. 

Do ask if you have a specific airframe in mind as I may be able to provide more accurate info for that particular model. 

Tom

 

More great advice, thanks Tom :)

 

21 hours ago, rob85 said:

Ced that floor is looking nice, and sorry to hear you have bumped into the same issues I ended up with re scheme. Below is the picture you linked to. ‘Sleepy time gal’ is at the front of the formation VE-O
696zfhj.jpg
this is how she is shown on the decal sheet. 
XTruMJx.jpg

It’s shown with the more rounded Cheyenne turret.... but on closer inspection of the above picture.....

3r9vVFa.jpgit doesn’t have that! Now weather the decal manufacturers know something we don’t is another thing, but I couldn’t find a picture of it with a new shiny Cheyenne. One thing I will say is if you look at the tail number and letter they are a different size and shape to the decal sheet, so maybe they are working off different reference shot?

 

anyway all that is probably null and void if your doing a different scheme due to the staggering of the waist positions!

 

cheers

 

Rob

Thanks Rob :)

Tricky isn't it? Jim's thinking about the scheme now and has offered a Hasegawa kit too - not sure I can make it!

Well done for offering your recent build to the museum - very thoughtful :clap2:

 

18 hours ago, HP42 said:

Just nipping in a bit late to sit at the back. Great start so far. Love to see a B-17, two already in the cabinet, so delighted to see the stash reduction program producing another one where I don't need to store it. 😁👍

Still got that E3 Sentry for you when you're ready. 😄

Thanks Phil - yes, this is your donation!

Kind of you to offer the Sentry but, as I've said before, it's another big one and definitely 'not my theme'. Have to decline, sorry matey.

In better news daughter #1 has moved and is now close to Bruntingthorpe.

Let me know if you're up for another visit, hopefully a sunny one this time!

 

16 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Perhaps for this project you should drop the "i" and we can all just call it "a-LOO-minum" for the duration 😎

Some a-LOO-minum Metal foil on the outside of these, Ced ❓👍

15 hours ago, Brandy said:

NO! Having lived in the US for 20 years that is NOT acceptable! 

 

Ian

14 hours ago, Marklo said:

A little known fact it was called alumium initially by its discoverer Sir Humphrey Davy, he then changed his mind and used aluminum, before finally changing it to aluminium in line with other cetaks like chromium and sodium etc. 
 

So in the interest of annoying everyone equally I think you should refer to it as alumium from here on.

10 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Blimey @Marklo, are you trying to start a full on bar-room brawl... ⁉️😲

Guys, guys… tomatoe, tomayto, potahto, potato, let's call the whole thing off…

But Rob, surely you mean a pub fight? :wicked:

 

14 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Utter filth.

Disgraceful etc.

#marquisdeced

 

 

 

 

 

Fnaar fnaar! :D

 

4 minutes ago, malpaso said:

Back to the airframe, that photo of Sleepy Time Gal doesn't have the deicing boots on the mainplanes that the decal profilist shows. It's hardly rare to find profiles that don't match photos, so I would always believe the photo evidence if available. 

 

I suspect some profilists just paste over a new colour scheme on their standard base fuselage drawing, to get them out the door / paid.

 

I read somewhere that the boots were often removed as if damaged (flak?) they became more of a menace than the ice!

Good point Will - no black bits that I can see.

Perhaps they decided they weren't required on day bombing raids?

White bits on the front of the fin though… :hmmm:

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18 hours ago, HP42 said:

Just nipping in a bit late to sit at the back. Great start so far. Love to see a B-17, two already in the cabinet, so delighted to see the stash reduction program producing another one where I don't need to store it. 😁👍

Still got that E3 Sentry for you when you're ready. 😄

 

It dont matter when he's ready, we''re ready for him to do that one ASAP

 

Just saying

 

:)

 

Looks kinda exciting, but.

 

Not for me, they're so big I would never finish one.

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Just now, perdu said:

 

It dont matter when he's ready, we''re ready for him to do that one ASAP

 

Just saying

 

:)

 

Looks kinda exciting, but.

 

Not for me, they're so big I would never finish one.

My thoughts exactly Bill.

Phil gave me the massive B-36 Peacemaker if you remember.

Kind, but hey, I only have so much ceiling space :) 

 

 

Tamiya clear orange on the wood this morning:

 

51098886345_323349187a_z.jpg

 

I looked on the pot for thinner recommendations. Nothing.

It said 'clean up with water' and it certainly does that - lumps up and goes gunky.

Tamiya thinners worked well though.

Duh.

 

Particularly pleased with the desktop:

 

51098623093_60f39a0119_z.jpg

 

If only I could remember what I did differently.

Rats.

 

You can also see in the first photo I've started dry fitting the bomb bay.

Luckily I read the link Tom posted and saw that the doors were plywood too.

More wood in progress.

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18 minutes ago, CedB said:

Particularly pleased with the desktop:

 

I love that, very life-like! :worthy:  :clap: 


Ciao

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As above Ced. Me too. Just looks exactly right. The floor seem to have lost some clear coat in use . They walk with their boots on that  and the bombadier creeps also on that, if I'm right. The desktop  looks pretty new in contrast.

Cheers

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3 hours ago, CedB said:

hazy IPA? Sure it's not 'off'?

Not a bit of it, one of those things every craft brewery out here (we've got quite a few, this area is New Zealand's main hop growing region) has released their own version of, some of course are better than others but the ones I like I really like & I knows what I likes. :D  Nice looking woodwork. :) 

Steve.

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Excellent job on the woodwork Ced, that desk top looks perfect!

 

Ian

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I like the wood effect Ced, it’s come together nicely. And as @bbudde said the floor looks more tarnished than the desk, which is good.

 

Rob

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Good morning, Ced,

 

You did a good job painting the floor and the desk 👍.

Here is another picture of  "Sleepy time gal" from the 381st:

spacer.png

Copyright B17 Flying fortress by Jeff ETHELL, 1995 Motorbook international p47

 

left from  42 107112 is Little guy, s/n 42106994, and Flak Magnet, 43 37675 is at right. 

Sleepy no longer has deicer boots on the leading edge of the wings and fin, we can see the big exhaust trails and the port aileron has been replaced by a camouflaged one.

Nota the rear turret.

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

 

 

Edited by Snafu35
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The wood effect looks awesome--the nose cone issue I spoke about is a "distortion ring" where the nose cone butts up against the fuselage--maybe others mileage differs--regardless, your build is looking great and I look forward to seeing this come together... best, Erwin 

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That wood effect looks absolutely awesome, Ced! Whether you intended it or not, that floor looks beautifully weathered with some foot traffic - fantastic stuff. 
 

Many B-17s had their deicing boots removed - they were prone to shredding which caused a lot of excess drag. You can see the bare aluminium on the tail fin where they have been taken off. Later G models had thermal deicing systems that sent hot air from the exhausts along the inside of the leading edges, meaning the rubber boots were dispensed with. 
 

Tom

Edited by tomprobert
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Agreed with all about the wood effect, very pleasing to the eye.

 

I use bog-standard IPA* as a thinner to the Tamiya clear paints, works very well (and substantially cheaper, at least pre-pandemic, than the Tamiya thinners I guess).

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

* but not a hazy IPA :D 

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Thanks Giorgio, Ben, Ian (thanks for the tutorial!), Crisp, Rob, VT and Thom for the kind comments on the wood :) 

 

23 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Not a bit of it, one of those things every craft brewery out here (we've got quite a few, this area is New Zealand's main hop growing region) has released their own version of, some of course are better than others but the ones I like I really like & I knows what I likes. :D  Nice looking woodwork. :) 

Steve.

Good to hear that NZ has its fair share of micro-breweries Steve. Fun trying them out too! :) 

 

21 hours ago, Snafu35 said:

Good morning, Ced,

 

You did a good job painting the floor and the desk 👍.

Here is another picture of  "Sleepy time gal" from the 381st:

spacer.png

Copyright B17 Flying fortress by Jeff ETHELL, 1995 Motorbook international p47

 

left from  42 107112 is Little guy, s/n 42106994, and Flak Magnet, 43 37675 is at right. 

Sleepy no longer has deicer boots on the leading edge of the wings and fin, we can see the big exhaust trails and the port aileron has been replaced by a camouflaged one.

Nota the rear turret.

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

 

 

Thanks Eric - always good to have pictures! :)

 

21 hours ago, hendie said:

 

Fnaar snurf!

Indeed (titter) :D 

 

17 hours ago, tomprobert said:

That wood effect looks absolutely awesome, Ced! Whether you intended it or not, that floor looks beautifully weathered with some foot traffic - fantastic stuff. 
 

Many B-17s had their deicing boots removed - they were prone to shredding which caused a lot of excess drag. You can see the bare aluminium on the tail fin where they have been taken off. Later G models had thermal deicing systems that sent hot air from the exhausts along the inside of the leading edges, meaning the rubber boots were dispensed with. 
 

Tom

Thanks Tom, useful info as usual :) 

 

6 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

Agreed with all about the wood effect, very pleasing to the eye.

 

I use bog-standard IPA* as a thinner to the Tamiya clear paints, works very well (and substantially cheaper, at least pre-pandemic, than the Tamiya thinners I guess).

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

* but not a hazy IPA :D 

Thanks Stew :) For some reason I have more Tamiya thinner than paint! I think it was for my roundel mixes before you and Jamie made that redundant!!

 

 

I'm getting in a mess with all the plastic on the bench:

 

51099503300_c3ff3c1e1e_z.jpg

 

If I was organised, those piles would be for one kit each.

I'm not and they're not.

Better get some bits glued together…

 

Nulm oil on the bomb bay centre section:

 

51100252896_6b58e91359_z.jpg

 

I like that. Slosh it on, let it dry, done!

 

I read in my 'Belle' thread that I needed to apply decals to the bulkheads so I thought I'd do the i/ps at the same time.

Nasty sink holes:

 

51100334649_ded91158d8_z.jpg

 

Quickly filled with Vallejo and, for once, swiped clean with a wet finger.

Transfers applied and hit with Daco Strong:

 

51100436721_a5c8d81d98_z.jpg

 

The smaller transfer just wouldn't settle so I trimmed off the knobs on the second (oooh nasty).

The transfer on the first has vanished.

Can you see which is which?

Precisely…

 

Here's the step 94 that you get sent to from step 1.

If you notice it:

 

51100988843_00830e75f4_z.jpg

 

Close up of the main bit:

 

51100528824_cb9fbded5f_z.jpg

 

Can you see the black line that goes across the black panel showing you where #5 goes?

Me neither.

More later.

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A sterling start.

The wood is excellent and I may pinch that technique for later use.

Don't you just love old style Revell instructions makes the whole thing a puzzle as well as a kit.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

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21 hours ago, CedB said:

Can you see the black line that goes across the black panel showing you where #5 goes?

Umm, yes, I can.

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