Nakajima b5n2 kate Pearl Harbour paint and markings question.

[Plastimic]

Hey Folks it's now time to paint my Kate. Early on when just checking stuff out about the Kate online I came across this website:

 

https://japanese-aviation.forumotion.com/t46-16-pearl-harbor-raid-akagi-s-torpedo-bombers

 

I am sadly no expert nor would I consider myself completely present with a hint of knowledge of Japanese planes and Camo. But the Kate build has changed that. I am not sure but I feel the colour templates show the planes in the right schemes. The gentleman seems to have had done his research.

 

I want to do a Torpedo armed Kate from Akagi and I saw AI-311 Hikotaicho's aircraft. My question is, what is the way the paint was applies to the wings? Did it wrap around? Or did it meat halfway on the leading edge? Any other info people want to divulge is greatly appreciated.

 

Tim

Edited March 28, 2021 by Plastimic

[Toryu]

That's a difficult one! Murata's plane didn't have a solid green upper paint. It was either blotched or (more likely) heavily flaked. The 'Kates' got their camouflage on board the carriers on the way to Pearl Harbor. It's not even sure if the lower surfaces of some were still natural metal or had been painted grey. The B5N2 were initially delivered in NM and only later received an overall J3 grey factory coat. A mix of these may have been on board when they started camouflaging.

 

No wrap around the leading edge, rather an irregular line along the upper front edge.

 

Different from the drawing in your link, the markings for Murata seem to have been two horizontal RED stripes under A-I 311, and NONE above. (Source: Model Art No.378 'Pearl Harbor').

 

[72modeler]

You might also want to go to the J-aircraft website I have linked below; it is a treasure trove of IJA and IJN aircraft modeling. You can find a lot of information on the Pearl Harbor raid Kates as well as period reports on the aircraft that were shot down and recovered- very interesting reading!There is also a very comprehensive section on colors and paint as well as photos of finished models; your Kate might be one of them!  Jim Lansdale, a noted expert on Japanese colors and  markings, Greg Springer from just down the road where I live, and Nick Millman  were contributors. Good luck!

Mike

 

https://j-aircraft.com/

 

 

[Seawinder]

3 hours ago, Toryu said:

That's a difficult one! Murata's plane didn't have a solid green upper paint. It was either blotched or (more likely) heavily flaked. The 'Kates' got their camouflage on board the carriers on the way to Pearl Harbor. It's not even sure if the lower surfaces of some were still natural metal or had been painted grey. The B5N2 were initially delivered in NM and only later received an overall J3 grey factory coat. A mix of these may have been on board when they started camouflaging.

If the green paint was applied on the way to the Pearl Harbor attack, why would it have been heavily flaked? We're talking a matter of days, yes? Blotched seems more likely to me, although I have no documentation to back that up.

[alt-92]

3 hours ago, Toryu said:

It was [....] (more likely) heavily flaked. The 'Kates' got their camouflage on board the carriers on the way to Pearl Harbor.

That seems to be a bit counter-intuitive - there wouldn't be enough time to wear significantly if they were freshly painted and kept belowdecks (as customary for IJN carrier ops)

[Toryu]

@Seawinder @alt-92  There is some logic in your comment. I think I remember a picture of Murata's plane (which I didn't find now) and the colour looked like chipped but maybe this was at a later stage than Pearl Harbor.

 

In the end we should help Plastimic to paint his model, I guess.

 

 

[alt-92]

12 minutes ago, Toryu said:

I think I remember a picture of Murata's plane (which I didn't find now) and the colour looked like chipped but maybe this was at a later stage than Pearl Harbor.

There is the degraded paint job on AI-301, but that's this picture used elsewhere in this topic: 

 

 

Those pictures (there's more) were taken in April 1942 however, presumably around the time of the Ceylon raids in which Akagi participated.

See also this comment from @Chris Preston

 

 

12 minutes ago, Toryu said:

In the end we should help Plastimic to paint his model, I guess.

 

oh sure

 Did you see the perfectly green, non-chipped Kate in this article?

https://visitpearlharbor.org/leader-japanese-striking-force/

 

 

[Greenshirt]

When I built my Kate I worked w Nick Millman for paint info as well as read the latest on the J-Aircraft site. What I came up with made perfect sense given my background in Naval Aviation and carrier aircraft maintenance. 
 

All IJN carrier aircraft were an overall “gray” or Ameiro (that warm caramelly gray). Tactically the IJN planned to repaint their aircraft upper surfaces in a dark blue-green when hostibegan, so paint was onboard the carriers to make that happen. The low level aircraft such as torpedo bombers were indeed hastily given an upper surface coating of a dark green that was a blue green en route to Pearl Harbor. Because the paint was applied at sea, in a humid and salty environment it would not adhere as well to existing paint as properly applied paints (which take much longer to apply). This meant that any Kate that survived PH would begin to show wear on the green paint, with it peeling and flaking off. The amount of peeling/flaking would depend on length of time since PH as it appears touch ups were not done. The underlying Ameiro gray remained so when the green flaked off that became visible. 
 

Replacement Kates would receive upper surface green paint properly either at a maintenance unit or factory, so would not show peeling/flaking.  I documented my build here at Greenshirt Modeler. A poor pic here:

[Plastimic]

Firstly, this is my first Airbrush job, since returning to modelbuilding. so I wanted something easy. Secondly I wanted to do a torpedoe bomber. I didn't realize I was doing Murata's plane....hikotaicho....makes sense. Just figuring out the best flow for my paint has been fun enough. I'm going to create Mask for the markings on the fin. I guess I'll have to noob the worn paint appearance with some silver paint and a brush...I used Tamiya XF-12 for the bottom and Citadel Caliban green with a drop of Dark Angels Green. I will be building more Japanese planes. So all this info is very useful. 

 

Cheers 

 

Tim

[Plastimic]

Did they do any practice flights/drills? on thier way there, while at sea? I know they did before they left to go to Pearl Harbour. I got lost in creating beautiful Aotake lacquers and just enjoying the build. I know that's the fun of the Japanese planes is getting the right worn look on them and trying to recreate them as is. Sorry if my build was nails across a blackboard to some.

 

Cheers

Tim

[alt-92]

21 minutes ago, Plastimic said:

Did they do any practice flights/drills? on thier way there, while at sea?

 

If they did, then only very local (i.e. a quick circuit) as to not give away their whereabouts. 
Place yourself in their shoes: if you were planning a surprise strike, would you risk an accidental discovery by a PBY or ship?

 

 

21 minutes ago, Plastimic said:

I know that's the fun of the Japanese planes is getting the right worn look on them and trying to recreate them as is. Sorry if my build was nails across a blackboard to some.

 

Most Pacific war subjects are great for weathering in that regard, yes  
And it's your model, so totally up to you

 

[Greenshirt]

19 hours ago, Plastimic said:

Did they do any practice flights/drills? on thier way there, while at sea?

I’m certain they did conduct flight ops just to keep the air wing and flight deck crews proficient. Likely every few hours each day they would turn into the wind, launch a flight, then recover a flight, then continue onward. Pilots in the air knew where to find the carrier at their scheduled return time. After a few days a carrier pilot can begin to feel rusty.  
 

A proficient flight deck crew can launch and recover 20 or so planes in 30 minutes. Safe ops requires a lot of practice.

Tim

[Rolls-Royce]

Shokaku and Zuikaku were new to the fleet, having just been commissioned, and had crews patched together from nuggets just out of training and aviators from training and shore billets. In addition to graduating only about 100 naval pilots per year at this time, Japan did not rotate their air wings among carriers as did the US, treating the fliers and their planes as weapons systems attached to the ship. This came back to haunt them after Coral Sea.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Rolls-Royce