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Looking for info on RJN Dubrovnik as built by Yarrow & Co, Ltd, Glasgow in 1931


seacon
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Hello folks

I am exploring the possibility to scratchbuild RCT Premuda, formerly RJN Dubrovnik in 1/350. Dubrovnik was a somehow larger than contemporary British destroyers built at the Yarrow yard in Glasgow between 1930 and 1932.

1024px-Completion-of-destroyer-Dubrovnik

More like a flottilla leader, faster and better armed, but retaining the main general features of the E and F class destroyers, Dubrovnik was captured in 1941 and used by the Italian Regia Marina for about a year on convoy escort duty. 

RN-Premuda-1.jpg

I am looking for the hull lines (which are not like the British destroyers, with a curved bow and what looks like a mine laying sloped stern) and/or as build blueprints or a detailed plan  (external views, top and sides).

1280px-Draw-of-destroyer-Dubrovnik.jpg

A british destroyer in Italian camo is quite something!!!

Can anyone help me?

Thank you

Marcello

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  • 5 weeks later...

If plans survive they will most likely have ended up with BAE Systems Surface Ship division. They have an archive at Farnborough. https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/heritage/ 

 

There is a mention of Dubrovnik in Norman Friedman's British Destroyers volume that states that the Royal Navy DNC took a keen interest in Yarrow's design because he was working at the time on a layout for a fast light ship more heavily armed than the current destroyer Leaders.  So I guess it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some plans might have ended up in the National Maritime Museum. Hope you have deep pockets if you want someone to actually search for them for you!!

 

Will

Edited by Killingholme
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  • 3 weeks later...

I see... pockets are deep enough but I have T-Rex arms and cannot reach that far!  I'd rather do the research on my own, if I could enter the UK... In the end, I figured out that I can base my Premuda on a Tribal class hull and scratchbuild all the rest. This said, all I need is a main deck plan!

Thanks for your insight

M

Edited by seacon
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There is something very Tribal in those hull lines, it is only the rather minimalist superstructure that gives it away as being different at first glance, to my eye anyway. I'll be keen to see this one progress.

Steve.

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In 1/350, I think you could use the above drawing, photo interpretation and inferring from the description (of, for example the features of her hull design and her armament) in Freidman's book to come up with something very plausible. I agree a Tribal might be a way 'in'.

 

She has the overall look of an interwar Leader, but at 371 feet overall she's a lot longer (The C-class leaders were about 320), so more light cruiser territory (which was exactly why the Royal Navy was interested in learning about her as they were starting work on what would become the Tribals- which eventually- and maybe usefully for the modeller-came out at an all but identical 377 length overall). 

 

For me, while the basic dimensions are similar to a Tribal I immediately notice how in contrast Dubrovnik's hull looks relatively speaking "short" and "deep" compared to any British design of the era. Freidman says this was presumably an attempt to keep the weight down, but the result is really striking in the photos. Note how close the guns are to bow, and how the second gun and the area to work it is much compressed and has the appearance of pushing right back into the space for a bridge. Indeed Freidman notes that bridge accommodation was very much compromised as a result of this layout- and that's why things like the anti-aircraft director are sited separately on the after superstructure. If you compare her compressed forward superstructure to a contemporary British leader such as Codrington, it's a really obvious difference I think. 

Will be interesting to see what you come up with!

 

Will

Edited by Killingholme
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Just another quick thought. I presume the Italians would have fitted their own armament, at least for the light AA guns when it came in to their use? That may also entail a change in the director fittings and ammunition storage too? I don't really know much about Italian armament to be able to 'spot' the difference, but I think it would be a reasonable assumption to make? 

 

Also, it looks like funnel caps have been fitted by the time she came into Italian service. 

 

I also found this link which might be of interest. http://nuke.gmtmodellismo.it/ARTICOLI/NAVIEIMBARCAZIONINAVIMODERNE/LARNPREMUDA/tabid/540/Default.aspx

 

Will

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Oh! Well..!

I am giving a try at it with what I have on hands (a Trumpy Huron in 1/350). I Plan to use the hull, decks and a few other things. If I can get the hull shipshape, I may even complete it with some 3D printed parts...

I am moving this to the work in progress (to me it means The Unfinished) section to show what I come up with. 

Thanks for the insights.

Marcello

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On 5/19/2021 at 3:15 PM, Killingholme said:

Just another quick thought. I presume the Italians would have fitted their own armament, at least for the light AA guns when it came in to their use? That may also entail a change in the director fittings and ammunition storage too? I don't really know much about Italian armament to be able to 'spot' the difference, but I think it would be a reasonable assumption to make? 

 

 

According to Aldo Fraccaroli in Ian Allen's Italian Warships of Wprld War II (1968), she was "captured by the Italian Navy, 17/4/41., modified and partially rebuilt; operational January 1942 in the Italian Navy.  She was having her armament changed to new 5.3/45 Italian guns, several 37mm/54 and 20mm/70 machine guns when Italy surrendered 8/9/43.  Captured by the Germans, who designated her TA 32 and practically completed her rebuilding but scuttled her at Genoa 24/4/45."  Her armament prior to the rebuild is given as "4 x 5.5/56, 1 x 4.7/15 lighting howitzer (starshell gun?), later replaced by 2 x 37mm/54; 4 x 20mm/65 and 2 x 15mm machine guns; 6 21" torpedo tubes; could carry mines."

 

If OP is after destroyers under strange flags, how about the Greek destroyer, Vasilevs Georgios?  She was basically a Yarrow A-I class destroyer with 5" guns.  Bombed and sunk in floating dock in Piraeus on 20/4/41, she was raised, repaired and placed into German service as ZG3 Hermes on 22/8/42, the only German destroyer in the Mediterranean.  Damaged by bombs and towed to Tunis 30/4/43.  Scuttled off La Goulette on 7/5/43 during the German evacuation of Tunisia.  In German hands she had 4 x 5", 4 37mm and 4 20mm guns plus 2 x 4 21" torpedo tubes.  Initially she served in overall light grey, but later wore a sunburst pattern radiating from between her funnels (from the end of 1942) and from March 1943 a scheme of irregular dark splotches.

Edited by Seahawk
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