Nieuport 11 in British colors?

[RC Boater Bill]

While looking for colorful schemes for my Nieuports, I stumbled across this page from IPMS Stockholm from 2000:  https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/french-fighters-in-british-service-during-ww1/

 

It describes a Nieuport 11 in unusual colors:

 

”Nieuport 11. A Flight, 2 Wing, Royal Naval Air Service. Imbros, Turkey, 1916
Pilot : Flight Commander K.S. Savory

Twenty-one Nieuport 11’s were delivered to the RNAS and these were operated by No 1 Wing at St-Pol in France and No 2 Wing in the Aegean during the ill-fated Dardanelles Campaign. Their British serial numbers were 3974 – 3994. The aircraft shown in this profile was delivered to the RNAS Depot at Dunkerque in late 1915 in complete French colours including the national markings, thus the overall finish was a clear dope or pale yellow. It was soon transferred to No 2 Wing and for a time it was flown by Flight Commander K S Savory and was known by the nickname of Bluebird. It was modified by having the refinement of metal fairings fitted behind the engine cowling.

 

Both wings were painted blue on the upper surfaces as well as the nose and undercarriage. The aileron on the top right wing has been replaced and this is not blue but still clear-doped. Of special note is that the upper wing roundels remain the original French ones – ie with red outer circles and blue centres. The interplane struts and tailskid remain in their natural wood and metal colours. This aeroplane failed to return from a mission on January 14 1917 whilst being flown by Flight Lieutenant W H Peberdy.”

 

I wonder- does this mean that both the roundels on the upper and underside of the top wing were French?   Or just one or the other?  (I’ve seen several N.11 schemes that only had large roundels on the top wing on the underside- with no markings on the upper surface.)

 

Is there any more info on this aircraft available?  

 

I think it would make a striking model.....

Edited March 26, 2021 by RC Boater Bill
fixed old typos, added new ones

[RC Boater Bill]

The other item of interest is that it looks like the plane has a fuselage- mounted Lewis gun— I’ve never seen that before.

 

Was an interruptor gear created for Lewis  guns?   Maybe I’m mis-interpreting the profile?

 

[AWFK10]

There are two photos of 3983 (a three-quarter rear view and a shot taken from below as the aircraft was taking off) in the 2007 Cross & Cockade International book "Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF Service", together with a 4 view colour drawing. The paint scheme is as quoted in the IPMS Stockholm article except that the wheel covers are clear-doped. All the roundels are definitely in the French style - the original RNAS marking was a red outer ring with a white centre and it will have been modified into a tricolour roundel by adding a blue centre spot.

 

I don't think there was an interrupter gear for the Lewis. Either there would have been Roland Garros style metal deflectors on the rear face of the propellor blades or the pilot just pulled the trigger and hoped for the best.....

 

[Paul Thompson]

11 hours ago, AWFK10 said:

There are two photos of 3983 (a three-quarter rear view and a shot taken from below as the aircraft was taking off) in the 2007 Cross & Cockade International book "Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF Service", together with a 4 view colour drawing. The paint scheme is as quoted in the IPMS Stockholm article except that the wheel covers are clear-doped. All the roundels are definitely in the French style - the original RNAS marking was a red outer ring with a white centre and it will have been modified into a tricolour roundel by adding a blue centre spot.

 

I don't think there was an interrupter gear for the Lewis. Either there would have been Roland Garros style metal deflectors on the rear face of the propellor blades or the pilot just pulled the trigger and hoped for the best.....

 

Famously hard to tell from orthochrome photos, but to my eye the top of the lower wing seems notably lighter than the top one, in the better photo (the first one) that you quote. A pity the airscrew is in silhouette, it would have been nice to see if it was fabric bound (to reduce splintering from the Lewis bullets).

 

The profile above shows a curved rear continuation of the fuselage blue, but in the C&C profile it is shown as dark grey/something, in keeping with the photos. And now I see it, I'll have to build one.

 

Paul.

[AWFK10]

I've found a third photo of 3983 online here. Unfortunately, nowhere near as sharp as the one in the C&C book (and in this shot the lower wing appears darker!)

[RC Boater Bill]

31 minutes ago, AWFK10 said:

I've found a third photo of 3983 online here. Unfortunately, nowhere near as sharp as the one in the C&C book (and in this shot the lower wing appears darker!)

Thanks for sharing that link.  I would have interpreted the Stockholm article as saying that the new aileron was just  CDL, and would not have included the roundel- that photo clearly shows otherwise.  Too bad the wheel is under a tarp- you can’t really tell what color it is.   There is a sliver of it showing, and it looks dark, but that may be just the shadow of the tarp.

I think the Stockholm article is in error with the depiction of the lower wing roundels in standard British colors.

 

Thanks, too, for confirming the info about the Lewis gun.  I may have a go at fabricating Garros-style delectors, and then see if the model is better off with or without them.   (I’ll be building the Toko 1/72 scale kit in this scheme, to add to my lineup of “Colorful Nieuports”, so a perfectly detailed replica is not the goal.)

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by RC Boater Bill
Some day, I’ll have a typo-free first post!

[AWFK10]

The colour of the wheel cover is ambiguous in the ground photo in the C&C book as it's in the shadow of the lower wing but the shot of 3983 taking off shows that they're clear doped. Both sets of underwing roundels are visible and yes, they're definitely in the French style.

 

I built her from the Toko kit myself a few years ago: I was given a free one and when I leafed through the book looking for a colour scheme this was the the one that grabbed me.

[modelldoc]

In "Aircraft of World War I" from Herris and Pearson, Amber Books 2018 you can find some colourful drawings for the Nieuport 11.

 

Later the Nieuport 17 was "boring" silver.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/8586700495/in/photolist-e5M5Ug

 

modelldoc

[RC Boater Bill]

I just finished my first Toko N.11, done as Armand de Turenne’s plane.  I’ve got three more of the Toko N.11/16 kits to build,  five Eduard N.17s, two N.23s, and one each Roden N.24 and N.27.    The goal is to build as colorful an assortment as I can, but staying within the WW1 years. 

 

For the N.11/16s,   I was thinking I’ll do Guynemer’s all blue plane, and one of Navarre’s red fuselage planes. I was looking for one more- I’m thinking “Bluebird” could be it.

 

If the Toko kit wasn’t such a pain to build, I’d pick up a few more. One in camo, one in CDL or silver.  There was lots of flash, and the Lewis gun mount frame was unusable.  I made a partial replacement from wire.