137 squadron

[Lawzer]

Folks,

 

wasn’t sure where to post this but here goes.

 

does anyone make 1/48 137 squadron typhoon decals?

 

mashing a monogram kit/hurricane wing tanks/ airfix rp3’s together and I’ve just realised I have no decals...

 

come across a few photos but can’t make out the serials.  I know hasegawa did a boxing for 137 but I’ve never even seen it for sale let alone wonder if anyone has the decals......

[Troy Smith]

8 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

does anyone make 1/48 137 squadron typhoon decals?

https://www.ultracast.ca/AeroMaster-48-282-Storms-in-the-Sky-Part-2-p/am48282.htm

 

10 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

 

come across a few photos but can’t make out the serials.

That's a @Chris Thomas question. 

15 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

I know hasegawa did a boxing for 137 but I’ve never even seen it for sale let alone wonder if anyone has the decals......

I have it, but can't remember if the usual wrong colour codes that hase used to do....  now where is it....   I may even have the Errormaster sheet....     Now here are they?   Remind me and I'll have a look when I get chance...

[Lawzer]

Thanks @Troy Smith !

 

I had a look and I have Storms in the Sky part 1 and Aviaeology 143 wing (RCAF) typhoon sheets.

 

I'll see if I can dig up any info for those subjects to see if they'll fit the bill....

[Lawzer]

So, I’ll be able to mash together the squadron codes from my spares.

 

next question(s):

 

spinner colour.  There’s a few photos which appear to show a black spinner but the hasegawa (and if memory serves correct) I *think* the old 1/72 airfix kit had SF codes but they would have you do the spinner in sky.....🤔

 

and 3 or 4 blade prop?  I’m aiming for an airframe around the time of bodenplatte (there’s a photo of a partially burned out aircraft (sf-z).  I’m in the happy position I have both a 3 and 4 blade prop.

 

I’m not overly concerned about the serial number - no one’s ever going to see it but me😬

[Graham Boak]

You may also need a choice of large or small tailplanes, depending on serial, but 4-blade props went with large tailplanes.

[Lawzer]

9 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

You may also need a choice of large or small tailplanes, depending on serial, but 4-blade props went with large tailplanes.

I don’t have the luxury of different tail planes.  Tbh I’ve never actually looked to see if the monogram kit has the larger or small ones......

 

I have a 4 blade prop that’s currently on an FR ib so more believable that an “unarmed” (sort of) aircraft would have a 3 blade prop and one that had to lug around ordnance would have a 4 blade?

[stever219]

7 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

 

I’m not overly concerned about the serial number - no one’s ever going to see it but me😬

Phillistine!😛😛😛. Serial numbers are everything!

 

Typhoons based in mainland Europe after September 1944 IIRC adopted black spinners and overpainted rear fuselage bands.  Four bladed props came in somewhere in the MP3xx serial range but were not standard for a while due to production/supply difficulties.  Tempest tailplanes appeared at roughly the same time.

[Lawzer]

17 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Phillistine!😛😛😛. Serial numbers are everything!

 

Typhoons based in mainland Europe after September 1944 IIRC adopted black spinners and overpainted rear fuselage bands.  Four bladed props came in somewhere in the MP3xx serial range but were not standard for a while due to production/supply difficulties.  Tempest tailplanes appeared at roughly the same time.

I may get lucky if I can find what some of the actual serials for 137 squadron were as I have a fair few serials that just maybe I can cobble the right one together 👍

[Graham Boak]

The 4-blade prop had nothing to do with role or payload, being mainly there to reduce vibration, although it did allow a small amount of extra power to be absorbed.  However it made the aircraft unstable and so the bigger tailplane was required.  This also removed the source of problems with the elevator balance falling off, with the possibility of flutter and the tail coming off.  The larger Typhoon tailplane was the same as the Tempest's, and was in production earlier than the 4-blade prop.  So aircraft could be seen with the big tailplane and 3-blade prop, but not the other way around.  (Development prototype(s) excepted.)  The Monogram kit, like every early kit, had the small tailplane, regardless of the prop. 

 

The spinner colour and tailband were altered in December 1944.  I can't swear that some spinners weren't black before this.  Looking at the photo of SF.X MN680 said to be taken in October 1944, it clearly has a Sky band but (less clearly) a dark spinner on its (definitely) 4-blade prop.

 

Small tailplane serials (going on the guidance in the posting above) DN429 SF.W  JR261 SF.Z  MN421 SF.D  MN533 SF.E  MN584 SF.W  MN627 SF.N   Clearly there may be some uncertainly about those in the MN range.  I don't know what dates apply to these examples.  137 was a rocketeering Typhoon squadron.  

[Chris Thomas]

Lawyer, I am not too sure what is driving your choice here.  137 sqn had Sky spinners up to September 44, then red until early Jan 45 when they were black (plus Sky bands painted out, last of the D-Day stripes removed and Type C1 roundels in all positions).

 

In the last 3 months of 1944 when they had red spinners the spinner backplates and the spinner tips were white. Some aircraft retained the individual codes on the tip of the fin (they had been painted there when full stripes were on in summer 44).

 

Pick your colour period and I can supply code/serials for 3 or

 4-bladers - both were used.

CT

[stevehnz]

Printscale do a sheet, 48-126 for Tempest Vs, but, option 4 on it is for a Tempest Ib (?) of 137 squadron MN134 as flown by F.O Artie Sames. Of course it isn't a Tempest at all but a Typhoon. After dropping a clanger like that. I doubt they deserve the sale, but maybe some one on here has those bits of the sheet going spare.

Steve.

[John Thompson]

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

Printscale do a sheet, 48-126 for Tempest Vs, but, option 4 on it is for a Tempest Ib (?) of 137 squadron MN134 as flown by F.O Artie Sames. Of course it isn't a Tempest at all but a Typhoon. After dropping a clanger like that. I doubt they deserve the sale, but maybe some one on here has those bits of the sheet going spare.

Steve.

I've bought quite a lot of Printscale decals over the years, but not because I think their research is impeccable - "research" seems sometimes to be limited to an uncritical scan of the highly-random profiles on the Wings Palette site.

 

John

[Chris Thomas]

20 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

  Looking at the photo of SF.X MN680 said to be taken in October 1944, it clearly has a Sky band but (less clearly) a dark spinner on its (definitely) 4-blade prop.

 

Small tailplane serials (going on the guidance in the posting above) DN429 SF.W  JR261 SF.Z  MN421 SF.D  MN533 SF.E  MN584 SF.W  MN627 SF.N   Clearly there may be some uncertainly about those in the MN range.  I don't know what dates apply to these examples.  137 was a rocketeering Typhoon squadron.  

 

There is a photo of SF-K, incorrectly identified in 'Fighter Squadrons' as MN680.  Better prints of this photo show it was actually MN660 (confirmed by the ORB), probably red spinner.  SF-X was photographed on the same day and can be clearly seen as MN995.  Both large tailplane/4-bladers.

 

DN429 and JR261 were both small tailplane/3-bladers but MN421, MN533, MN584, and MN627 were all large tailplane.  The latter had a 4-blader, the other 3 could have been 3 or 4-bladers.  

 

The large tailplane was introduced on MN307 but only a few of the subsequent Typhoons had 4-bladers due problems with the oil seal; 4-bladers became the norm after MN600.

 

[Troy Smith]

On 09/04/2021 at 17:52, Chris Thomas said:

 Better prints of this photo show it was actually MN660 (confirmed by the ORB), probably red spinner.  SF-X was photographed on the same day and can be clearly seen as MN995.  Both large tailplane/4-bladers.

This is up on Camm Followers, assume MN660 ? 

 

for @Lawzer  even if a bit late?

[Lawzer]

thanks for that @Troy Smith !

 

I ended up doing the machine as SF-J (as I had spares to do that code) with a "fictional" serial number.....

 

BTW I've finally got all your bits together - will try and get them off to you this week.

[Troy Smith]

5 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

I ended up doing the machine as SF-J (as I had spares to do that code) with a "fictional" serial number.....

OK, though @Chris Thomas might have been able to give you a serial for this....   and, he emailed me this, which is a much clearer image of MN660 to post, which maybe of use to other running into this thread later on

 

Typhoon MN660 SF-K by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

It's a very detailed image, well worth clicking on.  Lots of detail, note the part erased under fuselage stripes, and retained stripes on wing?

 

No date given, but as it still has Sky band, autumn 1944?