Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I think I have already hinted in my P-38F build for the 453rd Museum at Old Buckenham that more than one aircraft might be involved.... and that I am deliberately venturing outside my comfort zone in some areas. Welcome to builds 2 & 3. This will continue to be 1/48, but instead of P-38 I will be moving to the P-51 Mustang, an aircraft of which my knowledge is superficial at best. And this will be my debut NMF... In particular, this will be a tribute to a specific individual, Captain Shelton Monroe, who flew both P-51Bs and P-51Ds with 334th Fighter Squadron in 1944-45. He later flew Mustangs again in the Korean War, where sadly he was to lose his life. This is the gentleman in question: it is sobering to learn that he was born 3 days short of 44 years before me. The accidents of timing. ...and again, photographed in 44-63670, his P-51D after he left the 334th FS. The P51B will be this aircraft, BuNo 37178, which was assigned to Capt Monroe (but later shot down with a different pilot). I need to get a decent quality scan of that panther marking, so I can attempt some home-baked transfer goodness... The kit? Tamiya’s P-51B. This is over 20 years old, and it is fascinating to see the extent to which even Tamiya have progressed in that time; it is a far simpler kit than modern offerings. By all accounts the basic shape is decent, but it will benefit from a bit of after-market bling-itude - notably an Aires cockpit (correcting the incorrect cockpit floor and adding some detail). The cockpit is en route from Lowestoft as we speak. I’ll also be using an Aires wheel well, and elevators, plus a Yahu instrument panel and some Montex masks for that canopy (& probably the markings too). I’ve read at least one build that says the airscrew could be improved, too - more research required on that one. In comparison with a modern kit of equivalent quality - it is still a Tamiya kit, when all is said and done - it is almost laughably simple. 2 runners plus the clear parts: The second kit is at the opposite end of the modernity / complexity continuum - the Eduard P-51D... specifically the original “Chattanooga Choo-Choo” boxing released to coincide with the US IPMS 2019 show... which was held in Chattanooga. Why that boxing? Because one of the 6 schemes therein is from Shelton Monroe’s squadron, which will simplify the markings somewhat... Mine will be this aircraft, BuNo 415312, which Monroe is known to have crash-landed in Belgium in December 1944. I look forward to lots of people complaining that the invasion stripes have been painted wrong... but at least all I need to find is an N (though I will almost certainly try to paint the markings anyway). This kit has an almost bewildering number of options, not to mention a LOT of parts that are not used. 3 canopies that look identical to the naked eye, for instance... Also, it being Eduard, there’s a small but beautifully done PE fret for the cockpit, plus masks - I very much doubt this will need any after-market enhancement. As you can see, I have already made a small start with some Alclad black primer and a little of @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies’s “Teak” to act as the preliminary coat for some “wood”. In their different ways and different eras, both of these look as though they’ll be a lot of fun to build. I plan to build them in parallel - as soon as the Aires cockpit arrives I’ll catch the B up with the D. My original thought for the NMF was Alclad, but I have been so impressed with the Tamiya Lacquer LP-11 Silver in the P-38F build that I suspect that will become involved as well. Heart attacks are never a good thing... but the Cardiac Rehab Team are almost ordering me to do some modelling. After several months where I’ve been exclusively lurking in the Maritime section, now you have 3 of me! More soon Crisp 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I’m in. I seem to be on team Mustang too! 😀🙌 Johnny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF4EVER Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) Crisp, Bureau Numbers are US Navy, for USAAF they are Fiscal Year so BuNo 37178, should be North American P-51B-10-NA Mustang, 43-7178 (4th FG, 334th FS, 8th AF, "Brenda II") lost from unknown cause SWS of Brandenburg, Germany May 30, 1944. MACR 5607. Pilot killed. BuNo 415312, should be, North American P-51D-15-NA Mustang, 44-15312 (33rrth FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing in Belgium Dec 18, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired. Credit: http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html Edited March 23, 2021 by RAF4EVER Forgot Credit 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I notice Shelton Monroe hailed from Waycross, Georgia; I've been there and there isn't much to it but a rail yard and a rather impressive swamp. It's mostly famous as the birthplace of Gram Parsons and Burt Reynolds. I'll enjoy watching this build, Crisp, and the Lightning as well. And shamelessly take this opportunity to exhort Eduard to do a 1/72 P-51D! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, RAF4EVER said: Crisp, Bureau Numbers are US Navy, for USAAF they are Fiscal Year so BuNo 37178, should be North American P-51B-10-NA Mustang, 43-7178 (4th FG, 334th FS, 8th AF, "Brenda II") lost from unknown cause SWS of Brandenburg, Germany May 30, 1944. MACR 5607. Pilot killed. BuNo 415312, should be, North American P-51D-15-NA Mustang, 44-15312 (33rrth FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing in Belgium Dec 18, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired. Credit: http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html Thanks, mate; I told you this was all outside my comfort zone... but happily the 2 airframes you describe are the 2 I thought I was building; Jim has fed me other info from the museum and it aligns with yours. He is looking to see if there is any evidence of the artwork for “Brenda II”. The pilot for the Belgian crash was Shelton Monroe. In view of the date and the location of the crash, almost certainly a sortie in support of the Ardennes offensive (“Battle of the Bulge”). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I'm in, of course! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Me too, it goes without saying. Looks like I'm gonna be on team Mustang too, BTW Ciao 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Three Aviating Crisps at the same time, I my friend am definitely in even if the 'time zone' interests me less than other zones*. *it does, but I'm in. Can I interject, respectfully, to add I do not like the nose-to-propellor 'line' of the Tamistang as shown on the box top. I am fairly certain the little sweeties had the same front fuselage after they got rid of the pathetic Allison engines all through the line. The Eduard one looks amazingly well detailed, hope it sticks together as nicely as it looks likely to. I will slide back towards the bar now as I feel a hangover to satiate riding along with us... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 I'm in too. Always nice to have a bit of background info for a build, it just makes it a little more personal, and therefore, more interesting. For me at least! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Room for one more. Like the Mustang a lot so will enjoy watching you preform your magic on these! Do you know if your chosen subjects have the fillet in front of the fin or not? Stay safe Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Hamden said: Room for one more. Like the Mustang a lot so will enjoy watching you preform your magic on these! Do you know if your chosen subjects have the fillet in front of the fin or not? Stay safe Roger D with fillet, B without - the fillet was only needed to counteract the loss of stability in yaw because of the removed upper rear fuselage. I guess like the amended tails in later model low backed Seafires / Spitfires. One thing I have never really understood is why there was never any move to build a Naval Mustang (?Seahorse?). It feels to me that it would have rocked an awful lot of boxes, but as far as I’m aware it was never considered [Edit: apparently it was: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/30061/why-was-the-p-51-mustang-not-adopted-by-the-u-s-navy] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: D with fillet, B without - the fillet was only needed to counteract the loss of stability in yaw because of the removed upper rear fuselage. True, but the fillet wasn't introduced immediately on the P-51D. the following pic (it's on Wikipedia and has no copyright) shows it quite well After an admittedly quick search, I found a topic on another forum talking about that, here http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/261147-na-p-51-mustang/ The fourth post from the top mentions the introduction of the fin fillet on the D versions. I guess that, as usual, to be sure about it one should rely on period photos of the aircraft to model. One more thing about the fin fillet: it was offset to port, for the reason you mentioned - sorry if this was already known, I just thought I'd mention it to avoid useless corrections to anyone interested in building a Mustang. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Thanks, Giorgio - I knew some of that (you know me; I’m interested in this stuff so I’m reading around the subject), but not the offset bit; makes sense, though. The airframe I am building had the fillet, or so I am told by the Museum (who ought to know, you’d think!) I could have phrased my previous post better; “MY D with a fillet, all Bs without”. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moaning dolphin Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Just gonna pull up a seat at the back, now nothing about the subjects but they look interesting projects and I looking forward to learning alot more about the aircraft and pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: (you know me; I’m interested in this stuff so I’m reading around the subject) In that regard, when you come to the laminar flow and the wings panel lines debate, I'd like to know what you find out and compare to what I gathered a while ago. Or, if you want me to share it right away, just let me know. Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave22014 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Interesting he was credited with 8.8 kills. Did pilots get a percentage if more than one of them attacked the same target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 6:49 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: D with fillet, B without - the fillet was only needed to counteract the loss of stability in yaw because of the removed upper rear fuselage. Some B/C Mustangs were fitted with a fin fillet, I'm pretty sure these were kits installed in-theatre. 56 minutes ago, Bigdave22014 said: Interesting he was credited with 8.8 kills. Did pilots get a percentage if more than one of them attacked the same target? It was USAAF policy to split points for shared kills-- one wonders how subject to bias and politicking the decimals placement process was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 1:01 PM, giemme said: In that regard, when you come to the laminar flow and the wings panel lines debate, I'd like to know what you find out and compare to what I gathered a while ago. Or, if you want me to share it right away, just let me know. Ciao Oh, right away, definitely! I have managed to acquire quite a lot of material on the P-38, and lots of historical stuff on both types - but refs on the P-51B (in particular) are going to be a help. Currently I am definitely inside the cockpits of both P-51s, so not even thinking about the wings yet! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It's like waiting for buses. I said to myself, will Crisp ever get back to an aircraft build, and three come along together, and .................... they are american, and ................. they are not naval! 😱 I need to go and lie down now in a darkened room now. Terry PS, I'm in on this as well of course. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 OK, a little modelling has been committed; I’ve started the P-51B. The Eduard D and Tamiya P-38F are totally state of the art kits; the B is over 20 years old, so needs a bit more work to reach an equivalent standard. In particular, the cockpit is wrong - it has the ‘curved top of wing’ floor (apparently characteristic of the P-51A, but I am far from an expert). So I have acquired an Aires set - not least because it has the reputation of being one of their better-fitting efforts (the Aires cockpit - undeniably exquisite - fitted to my Sea Vixen FAW1 required obscene amounts of sanding to persuade it to fit, ending up with parts of the nose wheel bay that were “waffer thin”). Here is the original cockpit as moulded. OK, but nothing special: And here the starboard wall after about 45 mins of work (including repeated dry fitting of the tub to ensure everything aligns). It’s a start. Broadly, my plan is for the B to be a war weary, much-flown airframe and the D to be much cleaner and less lived-in. More soon Crisp 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Nice work in fitting the Aires cockpit, Crisp I know it can be a demanding task... Have you got any reference shots of a war weary P-51B? Asking for a friend, you know... Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave22014 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I didn't think the cockpit would cause any trouble to the man that fitted 6000 (by my estimate...) portholes and scuttles to the Ark. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 Haven't done the port cockpit wall yet, but the starboard side took a little more fettling to get it perfectly snug. Today’s scrape-and-sand-o-rama was the main undercarriage bay - again, the wrong shape, apparently (rear wall is wrong). Here is what Tamiya give you (apologies; only remembered to take the pic after I’d started the surgery). Lower wing: ...and upper: And here’s what has got to go in there: This is going to be tighter than the cockpit, but measurement suggests it will fit. The challenge is that some of Tamiya’s plastic is pretty chunky, especially where they’re trying to give the u/c a solid socket, so getting rid of it wasn’t easy without risking the leading edge of the wing. I managed it, just about; seen from inside: ...and, more importantly, outside, where you can see a couple of areas where the styrene got a bit stressed at the narrowest section by each u/c leg: The upper wings still to be done, but they’re a much more straightforward sanding job. Then lots of dry fitting! More soon Crisp 8 hours ago, giemme said: Nice work in fitting the Aires cockpit, Crisp I know it can be a demanding task... Have you got any reference shots of a war weary P-51B? Asking for a friend, you know... I might have. I’ll look tomorrow. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Nice surgery, Crisp Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Crisp, another interesting build and maybe a departure from the norm? Mustang, got to be a favourite with any WWII aircraft model builder. I have popcorn and a comfy chair... Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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