expositor Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 After following these recent threads on the early and pre-war flying boats, paints came to mind. Assuming that the Skua was overall aluminum paint while the Swordfish and Gladiator were aluminum dope and Cerrux Grey, was there a date when aluminum was specified over the grey? Does this also overlap the short-lived Sky Grey requirement? The USN also switched from light grey to aluminum for metal fuselages in the late thirties. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 This book will know the answer if anything does. It's the result of extensive research into the official documents in the National Archives and elsewhere. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fleet-Air-Camouflage-Markings-Mediterranean/dp/1905414080/ref=sr_1_1?crid=29J5JELJYCMBW&dchild=1&keywords=fleet+air+arm+camouflage+and+markings&qid=1616489121&sprefix=fleet+air+arm+camo%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-1 I'll see if I can get to mine in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expositor Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Hi ross, Have iang's book and it is THE go-to for camou colors FAA. I did take a quick look before I posted, and it's primarily concerned with the early development and use of sea camouflage on RN aircraft. If there's mention therein of details of them standard finishes, I request the indulgence of all in missing it. Even the old SAM from '85 is not concerned with actual finishes other than a mention of an anodized surface on the Skua. All other sources I've seen just mention paint or dope for the Skua. It took years for me to believe that the original B5Ns were not painted until the application of green camou, so maybe there's something to that SAM anodized Skua.... Cheerio! Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 20 hours ago, expositor said: Hi ross, Have iang's book and it is THE go-to for camou colors FAA. I did take a quick look before I posted, and it's primarily concerned with the early development and use of sea camouflage on RN aircraft. If there's mention therein of details of them standard finishes, I request the indulgence of all in missing it. Even the old SAM from '85 is not concerned with actual finishes other than a mention of an anodized surface on the Skua. All other sources I've seen just mention paint or dope for the Skua. It took years for me to believe that the original B5Ns were not painted until the application of green camou, so maybe there's something to that SAM anodized Skua.... Cheerio! Jim A quick look from me suggests p44 is the only one to mention Cerrux grey with a ref to SAM v13no10 which gives a few more clues but nothing definitive - and it concentrates on the Swordfish. If you can give me the issue no of the 85 SAM I'll look that up for a cross check. I've seen reference to Alu dope for fabric and Cerrux Grey for metal in both places I've looked and one of the SAM also says metal was originally anodised but the anodisation was quickly replaced by the Cerrux grey paint. I imagine it would be complex and expensive to anodise a whole airframe, hence Alu doped Skuas and Rocs. What the full story is I'm afreaid I haven't discovered. The overall grey seems to have been a scheme issued in a document but I didn't see that it made it onto an aircraft - but I'm not an FAA expert and don't have much in the way of references other than the Lang book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expositor Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hi Ross, The SAM issue was Aug. '85, "Fleet Air Arm Colors 1933-'39 ," with a F. Gannet on the cover. All Skua and Roc photos I've seen, before repainting in camouflage, appear to be of consistent shade and sheen indicating a coating of some kind, until yesterday I took to be aluminum paint. Thanks again for posting. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, expositor said: Hi Ross, The SAM issue was Aug. '85, "Fleet Air Arm Colors 1933-'39 ," with a F. Gannet on the cover. All Skua and Roc photos I've seen, before repainting in camouflage, appear to be of consistent shade and sheen indicating a coating of some kind, until yesterday I took to be aluminum paint. Thanks again for posting. Jim I do take the pre-camouflage Skua and Roc finish as aluminium paint. Cerrux grey was the protective finish for metal parts on Swordfish and, I believe, Shark and Osprey IV (that is, in mid-to-late '30s). Like the Skua, the Walrus seems to have been similarly finished in Aluminium. As recalled in a previous post, anodisation was only experimented with. My understanding is that eventually Cerrux grey was adopted instead. I do not think there was ever an anodised Skua serving with a FAA squadron. My two pence. Claudio Edited March 25, 2021 by ClaudioN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidrian Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Skuas Rocs Baffins and Walruses (Walri?) are the only 1930s types I can think of that had aluminium paint on the metal parts, though the amount of visible metal on a Baffin was pretty limited . The Shark, which had a metal fuselage appears to have had Cerrux Grey paint on the fuselage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 8:32 AM, expositor said: Hi Ross, The SAM issue was Aug. '85, "Fleet Air Arm Colors 1933-'39 ," with a F. Gannet on the cover. All Skua and Roc photos I've seen, before repainting in camouflage, appear to be of consistent shade and sheen indicating a coating of some kind, until yesterday I took to be aluminum paint. Thanks again for posting. Jim I think you are correct, it's extremely unlikely a naval aircraft would be in natural metal and more likely the caption is an error and should be Aluminium paint. I've found a photo of the second protoype which appears to be overall grey (Cerrux?) apart from possibly the control surfaces which look paler, maybe aluminium. I've not found any more photos in natural metal though. Annoyingly a contemporary feature in Aeroplane gives a thorough description of everything but the finish. The Putnam on Blackburn aircraft states the protoype "appeared in public in battleship grey" at the 1937 Hendon display and "At least up to L3006 the aircraft were delivered in an all silver colour scheme". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 The Sea Gladiator`s also had silver painted metal sections,..... so I`d say that it came into play round 1937 ish,..... but why Swordfish stuck with Cerrux Grey,... who knows,.... maybe a contract issue or just because they had this already bought in for the complete order and it would cost extra to buy new silver paint and introduce it onto the production line? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expositor Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 Hi Gents, Just when the ignorant among us think we have an answer, there's that proverbial monkey wrench...well for us this side of the pond....Me achin' 'ead ! Cheerio, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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