67th Fsq P-400 interior color question

[Spitfires Forever]

Greetings

I'm about to start construction on an early P-400 that flew from New Caledonia to Henderson Field on Guadalcanal. I had read something years ago by Dana Bell regarding U.S. substitute colors used by various manufacturers. The Bell interior green for the P-39 was supposedly not the typical zinc chromate /apple green but a color akin to medium green which was used to break up the silhouette of aircraft like te P-40 and B-17 early in the war. My question is did Bell use equivalent/substitute MAP designated colors?  Did Bell try to match the MAP interior green or did they not worry about it? I'm sure there is a link somewhere regading this topic. I have read what I can find but no answer to my exact query. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Jackson Duvalier]

I don't have an exact answer for you, but I recall Eduard included some fairly detailed cockpit colour information in the instructions for the P-39 kit released in the early 2000's.

 

Pretty sure it wasn't a MAP "match" but an in-house Bell preference from a local-ish paint supplier.  IIRC, closer to Dull Dark Green or Medium Green and not much like Interior Green or British cockpit grey-green.  

 

Unfortunately my addled recollections do not a proper reference make, hopefully a more authoritative answer is forthcoming.

[72modeler]

What Jackson said is accurate; Bell used a local paint supplier for its interior paint, just like Curtiss did, using paint from Berry Brothers for their "Curtiss green." I have an FS equivalent for the Bell interior/cockpit green somewhere, and I can look for it; this paint was also used on the landing gear struts of P-39's and P-63's.  The standard for interior green, which was FS 34151, was used by paint suppliers, but was not set in stone; a lot of variation was allowed by the inspectors- thus Bell and Curtiss interior greens were allowed and were not the same color. Bell interior green is a little lighter and has a blue tint when compared to the standard FS 34151. I have seen FS 34172 given as a good match for Bell and FS 34248 as a good match for Curtiss interior green.

Mike

[72modeler]

That being said, here is a link to photos of a P-39Q in unrestored condition in Finland; I think it is the composite of three airframes that @Antti_Kmentioned in another discussion. Note the photo of the main wheel bay and landing gear- you can see the untinted zinc chromate primer and the Bell green used on the struts and inner surfaces of the fairing doors, which looks a lot darker than other period photos I have seen- just goes to show...

Mike

 

https://lend-lease.net/gallery-en/p-39q-airacobra-from-tikkakoski-museum-finland/

 

 

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

Some colour information based on my observations on the example here in Finland (that Mike just mentioned).

Using the Swedish NCS (Natural Colour System) colour fan I got the following codes and closest FS equivalents:

 

- Olive Drab: S7005-G80Y close to FS 36134

- Neutral Grey: S5503-B close to FS 36270, which is "one step" too light

- "Bell Green": S7020-G70Y close to FS 34097 (landing gear and doors, cockpit)

 

And some photos:

 

Bell Green visible on the struts and ZCY in the main gear bay:

 

Nose landing gear; again Bell Green:

 

Same dark green colour was used on cockpit interiors.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Troy Smith]

On 22/03/2021 at 17:50, Spitfires Forever said:

My question is did Bell use equivalent/substitute MAP designated colors?  Did Bell try to match the MAP interior green or did they not worry about it?

 

In the link in this link, there are images of a recovered EX RAF Airacobra sent to Russia

 

Seems they did not use a MAP equivalent .

 

 

[ReccePhreak]

Thank you ALL for this informative post! 

My friend & I are just starting on Eduard 1/48 P-39Q Airacobras, and we had issues with Eduard's listed interior colors.

I was about to put a post myself, asking for info, but fortunately I found this post.

We both have found suitable matching paints (Model Master for me/Mr Color for him) to use on our build.

Now I have to figure out if my build of Snooks 2 needs the triple ID lights under the right wingtip.

Larry

[Seawinder]

I went with US Bronze Green. This from Dana Bell:

 

"The early cockpit color was Bronze Green (a litle darker than 14050, and almost flat). Eventually, this was replaced by Dull Dark Green (darker than 34092). The very late production P-39s may have used Interior Green (34151), but I don't have evidence of this, one way or the other."

[Antti_K]

Hello Larry and all,

 

I'm at the painting stage of my Eduard P-39Q. It's been a long road up until this point as the kit isn't especially accurate. There are two major problems: the cockpit glazing is some 1,5 millimeters too high ruining the look and some three millimeters are missing from the wing chord causing all detailing on the rear fuselage to be on wrong positions. Here are some WIP photos of my Cobra; all corrections made are based on the real thing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally: the interior colour. A special mix of Humbrol enamels.

 

Note also, that all those round lightening holes in cockpit structures show ZCY through the holes. Same applies to the nose gear bay doors. The seat is made out of some composite material and its colour is best described as leather brown. Seat belts are light tan coloured and to my eye Eduard's decal is a good match for the original colour. Originally the seat has been painted with the same green as the rest of the cockpit but almost all of the paint has been chipped away. However that metal frame behind and below the seat is painted with lighter and more greyish green.

 

Hope these help you guys.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[72modeler]

@Antti_K,

 

It would take a Finn to get an Airacobra right! That is some serious work there, Antti- can't wait to see the RFI photos! pysy turvassa ystäväni

Mike

[dnl42]

14 hours ago, Seawinder said:

I went with US Bronze Green. This from Dana Bell:

 

"The early cockpit color was Bronze Green (a litle darker than 14050, and almost flat). Eventually, this was replaced by Dull Dark Green (darker than 34092). The very late production P-39s may have used Interior Green (34151), but I don't have evidence of this, one way or the other."

Colourcoats has both Bronze Green (ACUS30) and Dull Dark Green (ACUS24). 

[Antti_K]

Paljon kiitoksia Mike🙂

 

And I will do my best to keep safe (luckily I got my second jab a couple of weeks ago). I've already mixed paints for the camouflage (Olive Drab and Neutral Grey). This will be "Galanin's Cobra" (white 26 in Soviet markings once finished). Next item I need is Foxbot's stencil (it looks very accurate) sheet as the Eduard sheet lacks too many stencils. I will post RFI photos and some historical details once I get there.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[ReccePhreak]

@Antti_K That is some SERIOUSLY AWESOME detailing & corrections!!  Great photos.

Both me & my friend set aside our Eduard P-39Q kits for awhile, after getting frustrated with the Eduard PE sets we have. Besides all the corrections you made, I will have to scratch build the 2 recce cameras carried by my aircraft.

We are switching to working on Eduard 1/48 F6F Hellcats for awhile, but will get back to the Airacobras soon. Of course, my Hellcat will be a recce bird.

Larry

[Antti_K]

Thank you Larry🙂

 

Airacobra with cameras; that is really interesting. This is the very first time I hear about such an airplane. Looking forward to see more.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[ReccePhreak]

35 minutes ago, Antti_K said:

Thank you Larry🙂

 

Airacobra with cameras; that is really interesting. This is the very first time I hear about such an airplane. Looking forward to see more.

 

Cheers,

Antti

You are more than welcome Antti, I first found my detailed info on the recce Airacobras in the Detail & Scale book on the P-39. You can also see the info in the Mushroom Model Magazine Special (Yellow Series) No.6106.

Larry