Massimo Tessitori Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Hi, I would look for some answers about C-47, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on this plane. In the mid years of the war, the OD finish was broken with blotches of medium green on the wing and tail contours. Was this use abandoned in the late stages of the war, leaving only OD uppersurfaces? Another question: the shade of OD on the fabric-skinned surfaces of the ailerons, elevators and rudder was often much lighter than on the metallic surface. Was this visible only on aged planes, or even on new ones? What about the neutral grey on the mobile surfaces? Was it visually different from that of metallic parts? I will be grateful for any information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I understand that the use of Medium Green was indeed abandoned at some intermediate stage, The OD of fabric surfaces was indeed a different (lighter) shade, but this was not the only different shade seen on C-47s, certainly early ones. The fin was a darker green, the fuselage browner. These differences are clear enough to be seen on b&w photos but the hues can be seen on colour. This is because different parts of the airframe were sub-contracted to different manufacturers (the same effect can be seen on B-17s, if slightly less marked). Also, the USAF did not control the precise shade of OD - at least in the early stages if the US involvement. Logically the Neutral Gray (US spelling) would be slightly different, but being less exposed to the sun this may not have been as noticeable, if at all. The 1941/42 (or thereabouts) Neutral Gray seems to have been significantly darker than that used later in the war - assuming that this was not a different colour altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 I am looking at the book in real colors of WWII of AK, it gives a darker and more blue-purple shade gor ANA 603 used after 1943 than Neutral grey 43 in use in 1941-43. There is a long discussion on sources and approximations on this book. Interestingly the shade of control surfaces of B-17 is lighter too. I suppose that this was a general thing for all types with fabric skinned surfaces. Another point on which I have doubts about C-47 is the disposition of wire aerials. I see two longitudinal ones between some masts (2 under the fuselage and at least 1 under the central part of the fuselage, plus two or three wires between the fin and the front back of the fuselage. Were these wires alternative or installed together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I recall Dana Bell writing that the USAAF never bothered with adopting the ANA standard for OD, so I don't see why this should be different for NG. Nonetheless, photos of (eg) 1942 B-17s, B-24s etc show a distinctly darker colour than the light grey seen on many types by 1944. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 As Graham has stated, the center section of the fins on some USAAF multi-engined aircraft appeared to be a different shade than the surrounding olive drab- this was indeed due to these sections being supplied by subcontractors who used a different OD mix, or in some cases, medium green 42 in error. The use of medium green blotches on the leading and trailing edges of wings, stabilizers, and fuselage spines was commonly done at the factory, but was discontinued, IIRC, by 1944. For one reason, the OD paint faded so much more than the medium green, that an aircraft's outline was enhanced, not broken up. I'm away from my @Dana Bell references at the moment, but I'm sure he can supply the dates for its use; be aware the serial number of your DC-3/C-47 modeling project will tell you when that airplane was contracted for, not when it was delivered, so you might not be able to use a serial number to determine if an aircraft had medium green blotching- a photo of the one you want to model is always best. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 The Medium Green splotching could survive even into the postwar period, with ever-increasing contrast between the original OD and the medium green. There are photographs on the 'net of a rescue C-47 of ARS DET6 over Marin County California in 1948. The serial number is a late one, 45-1012, and the machine features the original OD with Medium Green splotches and has the new United States Air Force titles in black over fresh yellow search aircraft bands. Cocardes with the postwar red stripe, yellow code letters on the fuselage and underwing. The cowlings are natural metal and the control surfaces seem to be in aluminum dope. EDIT: found it, the work of William T Larkins: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Don't get too uptight about the actual shade of OD. A number of years ago, I attended a lecture given by Dana Bell where he passed out to the audience a number of dark green to browinish green colour chips and asked us to identify them. The answers ranged the full gamut from Luftwaffe greens, RAF greens, Russian greens and various US greens. The correct answer, given by Dana, was that they were all Olive Drab!! Judging by C-47s and P-40s delivered to the RAAF, the practice of applying Medium Green 'splotches' applied right up to the end of the war, although the pattern was often simplified. Peter M 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 Hi all, thank you to you all for your suggestions. I am looking informations because I have to check the profiles of Soviet C-47 and DC-3 made by a friend and build a page about them. At present time, my difficulty is the nomemclature of versions, on which I have found unconsistent informations. Red stars 4, of Geust and Petrov, calls 'c-47A' the planes with a small supercharger intake and the long filter over the cowling, and C-47B those with the bumped back supercharger intake, as the plane of the photo above. Wikipedia seems consistent with this, suggesting that the differences between C-47 and C-47A were on the electric plant, and C-47B had a different supercharger. But... Aviakollectsia shows a profile of C-47 with the short intake without long filter as C-47, a profile with a bumped-back intake as C-47A, and a similar one with some more aerials as C-47B. At present time, I have not decisive sources to decide which is the right nomenclature of the versions. Could anyone make clear which is the right nomenclature of planes as, for example, with reference to the shape of the supercharger intake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 Hi, never mind, I've found an answer on an old article. Shapes of photos 1 and 2 are compatible both with C-47 and C-47A. All shapes are compatible with C-47A. The visual difference between the versions is the small pipe aside the exhaust pipes that was for air heating. C-47B are similar to late C-47A, only some difference in aerial and pitot was visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 According to Francillon's McDonnell-Douglas Aircraft since 1920 Vol.1 (Putnam) The difference between the C-47A introduced a 24 volt electrical system and improved cabin heating. The C-47B had the 2-stage supercharger and improved heating but performance was disappointing and these were modified to C-47D without the extra supercharging. (I strongly suspect this is a misprint for C-47B) I don't know of any external shape changes to the nacelle but this seems reasonable. I have always associated the longer air intake with the B variant but Francillon includes a photo of C-47As with this, so clearly not. That is the last one in your posting above. This will therefore be a matter of checking individual aircraft against their USAAF serial, but this may not entirely help. The first batch of C-47B was 43-16133 to 16432 These were the only ones built at Long Beach, and possibly the last C-47 built there. Later aircraft from 43-48263 to 45-1139 were all built at Oklahoma City and but for a first batch of 300 C-47As all future builds were C-47Bs. It was normal (but not entirely consistent) for the USAAF to use a different suffix for aircraft from different factories, to allow for incompatibility of certain spares. therefore seems to me that whatever the correct story of these high-altitude variants - and at least this single batch of Bs from Long Beach seem to be candidates - the majority of Bs will have had the standard engines. However, the nearest example in the photo is a Long Beach C-47A with the long intake, so it is quite likely that this was simply a later production modification and possible even retrofitted to earlier examples, rather than a way of distinguishing variants. Alternatively, all later production aircraft had the high altitude engine and the engine refit was post war? Rene Francillon was an highly respected aviation historian who worked for Douglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 Hi, thank you, so all serials starting with 4 and some starting for 3 should indicate C-47B (between the planes in Soviet service). My source (only an old modelling magazine of nearly 40 years ago, but with a surprising amount of concentration of informations) confirms that C-47D were C-47B with the supercharger removed, but don't say when this was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 According to the USAAF Model Designation of June 1946 the C-47B to D conversions were post war. "C-47D will be all C-47B models changed to incorporate single speed R-1830-90D engines in lieu of two speed blower". Note how they say "will be". www.planelist.net has a downloadable spreadsheet of DC-3 histories, assuming you are comfortable doing such a download. USAAF C-47 serials, Year, start, end, quantity, designation. 41 7722 7866 145 C-47-DL 41 18337 18699 363 C-47-DL 41 19463 19499 37 C-47-DL 41 38564 38763 200 C-47-DL 42 5635 5704 70 C-47-DL 42 32786 32923 138 C-47-DL 43 30628 30639 12 C-47-DL 43 30640 30761 122 C-47A-DL 42 32924 32935 12 C-47A-DL 42 23300 24419 1120 C-47A-DL 42 100436 101035 600 C-47A-DL 43 15033 16132 1100 C-47A-DL 42 92024 93158 1135 C-47A-DK 42 93160 93823 664 C-47A-DK 42 108794 108993 200 C-47A-DK 43 47963 48262 300 C-47A-DK 42 93159 93159 1 C-47B-DK 43 48263 49962 1700 C-47B-DK 44 76195 77294 1100 C-47B-DK 45 876 1139 264 C-47B-DK 43 16133 16432 300 C-47B-DL USN (the rest had both USAAF serials and Bureau Numbers) USN 3131 3143 13 C-47-DL/R4D-1 USN 4692 4706 15 C-47-DL/R4D-1 USN 01648 01649 2 C-47-DL/R4D-1 USN 05051 05072 22 C-47-DL/R4D-1 USN 01977 01990 14 C-47-DL/R4D-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Model Specification Quantity Engine Characteristics C-47 314-1C 1087 R1830-92 Low wing cantilever monoplane with aluminum alloy covered wing and fuselage. Same as the Douglas model DC-3 except for larger cargo door and cabin arrangement. (150 with camouflage finish for British; 200 without camouflage with glider towing equipment) C-47A DS-456 0 R1830-92 Same as C-47 except for 24 volt electrical system. (Both DL, Long Beach and DK, Tulsa.) C-47A-1-DL DS-456 48 R1830-92 The following changes were made over the previous model: Provisions for Type C-3A inter aircraft signal lamp; replacement of commercial safety belts by Type B-11; replacement of Type 320-3-38 pitot static tubes with Type D-2; 2 long range tanks instead of 8; addition of one standby inverter; booster coils replaced with Type VJR-24-B3 vibrators; addition of first aid kits and hand axe stowage provisions; addition of 1/2 gal. steam system filler tank; deletion of oil pressure warning system; 325H-01 altimeters replaced by Type C-12; Type F-1 ammeter instead of Weston 506 volt type; Weston air and oil temperature indicators replaced by Types C-11 and A-24. C-47A-5-DL DS-456 9 R1830-92 Same as C-47A-1-DL except for deletion of fuel pressure warning system. C-47A-10-DL DS-456 24 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-5-DL except for the following; Revisions to camouflage on wing and empennage; elimination of the pilot's chart Board; addition of weight and balance T.O. and Cox & Stevens load adjuster. C-47A-15-DL DS-456 33 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-10-DL except for replacement of Type G-6 engine starter with Jack & Heintz JH-3R (GFE), and instructions for lifting starter brushes added to accessory cowling. C-47A-20-DL DS-456 125 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-15-DL except for replacement of narrow propeller blades and governors with wide blade #6477A-0 and governor #40B-615D, and replacement of cargo door warning junction box with wood bracket. C-47A-25-DL DS-456 43 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-20-DL except for the following; Provisions for astrograph and astrocompass; dust excluders for use in desert operations; provisions only for installation of flame dampening equipment; replacement of steam heating system with muff type heating system; addition of two AN-M-14 grenades to pilot's compartment; paratroop jump master's static cable link; replacement of Scintilla 10-1431 A ignition switch with Type B-5. C-47A-30-DL DS-456 207 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-25-DL except for the following; Substitution of wood for metal in 4 place and 5 place passenger benches and supports; revision of bead height on pressure lines and fittings; deletion of engine push rod lagging; deletion of engine case dishpan protector and oil line lagging; deletion of provisions for propane priming. C-47A-35-DL DS-456 175 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-30-DL except for the following; Hinge revision on main cargo door to C-54 type; blackout curtains for main cabin windows and navigator's dome; placard for propeller feathering operation; replacement of paratroop warning signal junction box with bracket. C-47A-40-DL DS-456 123 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-35-DL except for the following; Redesign of outboard litter bracket; deletion of provisions for oil immersion heaters; provisions for British type static cable; addition of Type C-1 formation lights and dimming provisions; addition of provisions for interphone system from airplane to glider; deletion of lagging oil lines and oil tank covers aft of firewall; revision of insignia markings. C-47A-45-DL DS-456 52 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-40-DL except for replacement of inverters (250 V.A.) with one 750 V.A. inverter C-47A-50-DL DS-456 184 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-45-DL except for the following; Winterization provisions for oil radiator surge protection; installation of oil pressure transmitters; engine cover revisions; addition of flame dampener assembly in exhaust tail pipe; air valve caps replaced with Schrader #2525; neoprene dust excluder in cowl flap actuating cylinder; provisions for oil dilution propeller feathering system; complete oil drainage provisions; provisions for flex oil immersion ground heater; wheel brake low temperature seals; heating provisions for automatic pilot servo units; addition of Q-1A suit heater rheostats at crew stations; provisions for electric blower for windshield defrosting while on the ground; HS33 headsets and MC-385 adapters in place of HS23 headsets; AN5790-6 outside air temperature indicator instead of Type C-11 and AN5795-6 for Type A-24. C-47A-55-DL DS-456 16 R1830-92 Same as C-47A-50-DL except for type B-8 (Pesco 1P-582CA) hydraulic pumps instead of Pesco 214-U. C-47A-60-DL DS-456 82 R1830-92 Same as C-47A-55-DL except for installation of Rc-103 radio receiving and AN/ARR-1 radio equipment. C-47A-1-DK DS-456 360 R1830-92 Following is a lit of changes made in the C-47A airplane in the first block: Provisions for flame dampeners; steam heating replaced with exhaust muff type hot air heating; winterization- low temperature hydraulic hose, Spc. AN-H-6A; revised bead height lines and fittings; Type B-8 hydraulic pumps in lieu of Pesco #214; provisions for British type static cable; interphone system - airplane to glider; oil dilution, propeller feathering system (provisions for); electric blower in heating system for defrosting; two 250 V.A. inverters replaced with one 750 V.A. inverter; installations of Adel carburettor de-icer pump and filter. C-47A-5-DK DS-456 175 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-1-DK except for the following; replacement of Scintilla 10-1431A ignition switch with AAF Type B-5 switch; addition of calibrated dept gauge in fuselage tanks; installation of AN-6231 wiper ring in shock struts and removal of dust excluder boots; installation of astro compass and standard (GFE). C-47A-10-DK DS-456 190 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-5-DK except for the following; AAF Type C-1 formation lights and dimming provisions; installation of SCR-522 radio equipment; installation of RC-103 radio receiver; installation of AN/ARR-1 radio receiving equipment; addition of MC-385 adaptors and low impedance headsets HS-33; addition of oxygen outlet for flight mechanic. C-47A-15-DK DS-456 200 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-10-DK except for installation of beacon transmitter AN/APN-2 and elimination of moisture traps in engine lines. C-47A-20-DK DS-456 400 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-15-DK except for the following; Installation of low pressure oxygen system for the crew; deletion of instrument flying hoods; removal of Group "B" parts AN/ARN-1 radio; cover for paratroop door handle; addition of skyloader style "B" cargo tie down kits; replacement of BC-706 switch box and plug with SA/3A switch in SCR-695 radio; addition of air filter in vacuum instrument system. C-47A-25-DK DS-456 600 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-20-DK except for the following; Stowage provisions for emergency transmitter radio SCR-578B; instrument panel revision - standard flight instrument arrangement; revision of litter installation - contractor type to Webb belt type; addition of one additional jump signal bell; revision of Webb belt litter installation to accommodate British litters. C-47A-30-DK DS-456 500 R1830-92 Similar to the C-47A-25-DK except for the following; Change from Sperry Type A3 to Jack & Heintz Type A-3A automatic pilot; replacement of 50 amp. with 100 amp. generator system; change to Type B-8 starter solenoid and B-4 propeller feathering solenoid; replacement of Eclipse type anti-icer propeller pump with Weldon pump #100-3; installation of AN/APN-1 radio altimeter; change in cowl flap actuating cylinder; electric booster pumps; instrument panel revision and change to GFE dual indicating instruments; addition of British type paratroop static cable snaps; revision of pilot's and co-pilot's seats from wood to metal; installation of ARN-7 radio compass to replace SCR-269-G; diversion to stud type generator terminal assemblies. C-47B-DL 0 R1830-90B Same as C-47A except for R-1830-90B engines in lieu of R1830-92, and in addition six 200 gal. collapsible fuel tanks are installed in the cargo cabin. Also incorporates electric booster pump fuel system in lieu of wobble type head pump. These airplanes are allocated to China at the rate of two per month. C-47B-1-DL DS-467 300 R1830-90C Substantially the same as the C-47A-90-DL except for the following; Installation of R1800-90C engines incorporating two speed blowers; revision of air induction system for R1830-90C engines to sheet metal type incorporating ram, non ram and carburettor heat positions. C-47B-1-DK DS-467 300 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47A-30-DK except for the following; Engine scavenging using 30% diluted 1100A oil at take off power for 5 min.; oxygen system provided for troops; Installation of R1800-90C two speed engines; R1830-90C engine sheet metal non ram air induction system; revision of low pressure oxygen system - five Type G-1 bottle and two check valves; replacement of ST30 soft soldered thermocouples with ST30-B silver soldered type; electric blower installed for ground defrosting (provisions previously installed). C-47B-2-DK 3 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-1-DK except for the following; 21 passengers seats; cabin insulation; removable plywood floor; curtained compartment for hanging coats; inclosed lavatory and toilet; provisions for food warmers; blinking navigation lights; birdproof windshields. This type airplane will be quickly convertible for either passenger or cargo operations. C-47B-5-DK DS-467 350 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-2-DK except for the following; Installation of "Book" type wiring diagram; installation of guard for antenna reel RL-42-A; addition of restrictor vacuum line gyro flight instrument; replacement of plastic paratroop door handle with metal; installation of fuel grounding receptacles. C-47B-6-DK 4 R1830-90C Same as the C-47B-5-DK except for the following; 21 passengers seats; cabin insulation; removable plywood floor; curtained compartment for hanging coats; inclosed lavatory and toilet; provisions for food warmers; blinking navigation lights; birdproof windshields. This type airplane will be quickly convertible for either passenger or cargo operations. C-47B-7-DK 3 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-5-DK except that they have nine passenger chairs, two Pullman type seats, coat closet, baggage compartment, buffet and airline interior. C-47B-8-DK 1 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-5-DK except for the following; 21 passenger seats; airline insulation and interior; plywood floor covering and carpet; airline type lavatory and buffet equipment; coat storage closet; hat and light baggage racks; individual ventilators; flight steward jump seat; passenger continuous flow oxygen equipment; blinking navigation lights; passenger warning lights; airline type heating system; window curtains and ash trays. C-47B-10-DK 350 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-5-DK except for the following; Engine air induction system redesign; replacement of Dietz landing light with GFE Par-64 bulb, all glass type landing lamp; revision of landing gear indicating system; provisions for adequate lighting for SCR-274 radio control box in cockpit; substitution for Kapok insulation in crew compartment; reinforcement of exhaust collector ring supports; revision of hydraulic hand pump to "O" ring packing; revision to quick detachable tap for SCR-522 radio; deletions for provisions for SCR-595. C-47B-11-DK 24 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-10-DK except for the following; 21 passenger seats; cabin insulation; removable plywood floor; curtained compartment for hanging coats; inclosed lavatory and toilet; provisions for food warmers; blinking navigation lights; birdproof windshields. C-47B-13-DK 8 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-10-DK except for the following; 21 passenger seats; airline insulation and interior; plywood floor covering and carpet; airline type lavatory and buffet equipment; coat storage closet; hat and light baggage racks; individual reading lights; birdproof windshield; individual ventilators; flight steward jump seat; continuous flow passenger oxygen equipment; blinking navigation lights; passenger warning lights; airline type heating system; window curtains and ash trays. C-47B-15-DK DS-467 350 R1830-90C Similar to the C-47B-10-DK except for the following; Revision of non ram air element to Type UM-203; Group "B" parts installed for SCR-522 radio; relocation of SCR-695 antenna mast AN-95-(-); deletion of crew chief's and radio operator's GFE kits; addition of acid proof lacquer to centre wing and fuselage structure. XC-47C-DO 1 R1830-92 Airplane Type C-47, redesignated XC-47C is equipped with Edo Aircraft Corporation amphibious floats purchased on Contract AC-26290. This installation consists of two floats with a retractable main wheel and nose wheel in each float, and certain basic reinforcements and modifications to install same. C-47C-DO 0 R1830-92 Same as the C-47A except it has two Edo amphibious floats with retractable wheels and necessary controls installed in place of standard landing gear. serials Version Quantity Note 41-7722/7866 C-47-DL 145 41-18337/18699 C-47-DL 363 41-19463/19499 C-47-DL 37 41-38564/38763 C-47-DL 200 42-5635/5704 C-47-DL 70 42-23300/23346 C-47A-1-DL 47 42-23347/23355 C-47A-5-DL 9 42-23356/23379 C-47A-10-DL 24 42-23380/23412 C-47A-15-DL 33 42-23413/23537 C-47A-20-DL 125 42-23538/23580 C-47A-25-DL 43 42-23581/23787 C-47A-30-DL 207 42-23788/23962 C-47A-35-DL 175 42-23963/24085 C-47A-40-DL 123 42-24086/24137 C-47A-45-DL 52 42-24138/24321 C-47A-50-DL 184 42-24322/24337 C-47A-55-DL 16 42-24338/24419 C-47A-60-DL 82 42-32786/32923 C-47-DL 138 42-32924/32935 C-47A-DL 12 42-100436/100635 C-47A-65-DL 200 42-100636/100835 C-47A-70-DL 200 42-100836/101035 C-47A-75-DL 200 43-15033/15432 C-47A-80-DL 400 43-15433/15632 C-47A-85-DL 200 43-15633/16132 C-47A-90-DL 500 43-16133/16432 C-47B-1-DL 300 43-30628/30639 C-47-DL 12 Army for Navy 43-30640/30761 C-47A-DL 122 Army for Navy 3131/3143 C-47-DL 13 R4D-1, Bureau numbers 4692/4706 C-47-DL 15 R4D-1, Bureau numbers 01648/01649 C-47-DL 2 R4D-1, Bureau numbers 05051/05072 C-47-DL 22 R4D-1, Bureau numbers 01977/01990 C-47-DL 14 R4D-1, Bureau numbers 42-92024/92091 C-47A-DK 68 42-92092/92415 C-47A-1-DK 324 42-92416/92572 C-47A-5-DK 157 42-92573/92743 C-47A-10-DK 171 42-92744/92923 C-47A-15-DK 180 42-92924/93158 C-47A-20-DK 235 42-93159 C-47B-DK 1 42-93160/93283 C-47A-20-DK 124 42-93284/93823 C-47A-25-DK 540 42-108794/108800 C-47A-DK 7 Army for Navy 42-108801/108836 C-47A-1-DK 36 Army for Navy 42-108837/108854 C-47A-5-DK 18 Army for Navy 42-108855/108873 C-47A-10-DK 19 Army for Navy 42-108874/108893 C-47A-15-DK 20 Army for Navy 42-108894/108933 C-47A-20-DK 40 Army for Navy 42-108934/108993 C-47A-25-DK 60 Army for Navy 43-47963/48262 C-47A-30-DK 300 43-48263/48378 C-47B-1-DK 116 43-48379 C-47B-2-DK 1 43-48380/48505 C-47B-1-DK 126 43-48506 C-47B-2-DK 1 43-48507/48562 C-47B-1-DK 56 43-48563/48605 C-47B-5-DK 43 43-48606 C-47B-7-DK 1 43-48607/48635 C-47B-5-DK 29 43-48636 C-47B-7-DK 1 43-48637/48640 C-47B-5-DK 4 43-48641 TC-47B-5-DK 1 43-48642/48685 C-47B-5-DK 44 43-48686 C-47B-6-DK 1 43-48687/48697 C-47B-5-DK 11 43-48698/48702 C-47B-9-DK 5 43-48703/48735 C-47B-5-DK 33 43-48736 C-47B-6-DK 1 43-48737/48757 C-47B-5-DK 21 43-48758 C-47B-8-DK 1 43-48759/48805 C-47B-5-DK 47 43-48806 C-47B-7-DK 1 43-48807/48815 C-47B-5-DK 9 43-48816 C-47B-6-DK 1 43-48817/48885 C-47B-5-DK 69 43-48886 C-47B-7-DK 1 43-48887/48905 C-47B-5-DK 19 43-48906 C-47B-6-DK 1 43-48907/48912 C-47B-5-DK 6 43-48913/48921 C-47B-10-DK 9 43-48922 C-47B-13-DK 1 43-48923/48931 C-47B-10-DK 9 43-48932 C-47B-13-DK 1 43-48933/48951 C-47B-10-DK 19 43-48952 C-47B-13-DK 1 43-48953/49005 C-47B-10-DK 53 43-49006 C-47B-13-DK 1 43-49007/49015 C-47B-10-DK 9 43-49016 C-47B-13-DK 1 43-49017 C-47B-10-DK 1 43-49018 C-47B-11-DK 1 43-49019/49022 C-47B-10-DK 4 43-49023 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44-76764/76767 C-47B-30-DK 4 44-76768 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76769/76772 C-47B-30-DK 4 44-76773 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76774/76777 C-47B-30-DK 4 44-76778 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76779/76788 C-47B-30-DK 10 44-76789 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76790/76793 C-47B-30-DK 4 44-76794 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76795/76800 C-47B-30-DK 6 44-76801 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76802/76811 C-47B-30-DK 10 44-76812 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76813/76822 C-47B-30-DK 10 44-76823 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76824/76827 C-47B-30-DK 4 44-76828 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76829/76837 C-47B-30-DK 9 44-76838 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76839/76847 C-47B-30-DK 9 44-76848 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76849/76853 C-47B-30-DK 5 44-76854 TC-47B-30-DK 1 44-76855/76859 C-47B-35-DK 5 44-76860 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76861/76868 C-47B-35-DK 8 44-76869 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76870/76873 C-47B-35-DK 4 44-76874 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76875/76883 C-47B-35-DK 9 44-76884 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76885/76894 C-47B-35-DK 10 44-76895 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76896/76899 C-47B-35-DK 4 44-76900 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76901/76908 C-47B-35-DK 8 44-76909 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76910/76918 C-47B-35-DK 9 44-76919 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76920/76923 C-47B-35-DK 4 44-76924 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76925/76934 C-47B-35-DK 10 44-76935 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76936/76942 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-76943 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76944/76950 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-76951 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76952/76958 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-76959 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76960/76966 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-76967 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76968/76972 C-47B-35-DK 5 44-76973 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76974/76981 C-47B-35-DK 8 44-76982 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76983/76989 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-76990 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76991/76996 C-47B-35-DK 6 44-76997 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-76998/77004 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-77005 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-77006/77012 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-77013 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-77014/77018 C-47B-35-DK 5 44-77019 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-77020/77026 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-77027 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-77028/77034 C-47B-35-DK 7 44-77035 TC-47B-35-DK 1 44-77036/77160 C-47B-35-DK 125 44-77161/77184 C-47B-35-DK 24 Army for Navy 44-77185/77294 C-47B-40-DK 110 Army for Navy 45-876/1055 C-47B-45-DK 180 45-1056/1139 C-47B-50-DK 84 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 Excellent document, thank you. Now I can try to identify the version of the planes appearing in photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hello I agree with RJP, there is plenty of photos of C-47 transports with Medium Green blotches (B/W, colour, and even original colour film), taken on partisan airstrips around here in 1945. Again, I have no access to my collection at the moment, but their serials were from fiscal years 1942 and 1943, possibly also from 1944. Vertical tails on these aircraft were Medium Green, although fillets were OD with curvy demarcation between the paints. I am not certain about the rudders, but I think they were OD, with small Medium Green blotches at the edges IIRC. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hi, vertical tails in medium green with curvy demarcation... interesting. It would be nice to see color images of that age. Regards Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 They do exist. Look for Jeffrey Ethell's collections of colour images in a series of books published some years back. One was dedicated to the Himalayan air lift, though as I recall it was slightly disappointing compared with others in this range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 I don't put this in doubt. Just I would like to see wartime photos of the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 These are wartime photos - I just thought you might have access to them or at least knew someone who did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hello, Massimo Not the best of reproductions, but original WWII C-47 colour photos are difficult to find on-line: I found it here. As you can see, the fading characteristics of OD on fabric had been rather poor. There are two colour photos of factory fresh C-47 B 43-16298 and 43-16299 in Bill Yenne's book McDonnell Douglas - a tale of two giants (Crescent books, 1985). On the photo of the latter vertical tail, mostly in Medium Green, is particularly well shown. The book has been reprinted several times so you will probably be able to find someone who owns it and take a look at the photos. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 Hello Jure, thank you for posting this photo. It seems really that the area around the serial number was painted with the medium green, but the contour is blotchy, probably it was retouched after having been mounted on, or was made to increase the contrast of the number on the background. Regards Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Possibly just fading. This is a postwar picture. It is worth noting that the fuselage is a green OD whereas other wartime photos show a brown OD. I wonder if this could distinguish between Long Beach built aircraft and Oklahoma City built ones? I recall a very old (wartime or just postwar) modelling publication saying that for early C-47s Dark Earth was the best match for OD, which certainly hints at the brown OD being most common, at lease on earlier aircraft. I've yet to see any suggestion that RAF Dakotas in OD had the Medium Green blotching, but these were straight off the production line in then-standard US finish, as per the Lend-Lease provisions. It would .liven an otherwise bland finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It is worth bearing in mind that the same colour when applied to fabric covered surfaces often appeared to be different to when it was applied to the metal areas so this may possibly explain some of the variations seen in certain instances/photos. Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Interesting and informative forum topic discussion! See the 1st link for a closeup period photo that shows the faded OD on the fabric-covered elevators as well as what looks like either medium green or different shade of OD in the fin, as has been described above. The Pinterest photo below is very interesting for several reasons: it must be postwar, as you can see the CE-074 buzz number on the fuselage; much evidence of faded original and freshly applied OD. The photo caption stated it was taken at Ft. Benning, GA as was used for paratroop training. Note what looks like fresh OD on all of the fabric control surfaces that surrounds the original OD on the metal trim tabs! https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/c-47/pages/080129-f-3927s-257.shtml This linked photo shows early production C-47's as evidenced by their serials and early style national insignia. Note that at least two of the aircraft in the RH row have medium green fin center sections- they might have come from a different assembly plant than the others. http://www.ww2incolor.com/tag/color?g2_itemId=2704 This link shows a 1945 photo of a C-47 that has faded OD paint and significant medium green blotching. http://triplenickle.com/smokejumperstory.htm Want to be really confused? Here is a link to a very well-known Berlin Airlift photo taken at Tempelhof airdrome. Note the C-47's in various finished! The C-47 in the foreground has the post-1947 national insignia on what appear to be freshly painted OD wings; the ailerons and elevator on the LH side look like they came from a silver-doped bare metal airplane, and the RH aileron appears to be faded OD with medium green blotching. Note the faded OD original paint as well as the replacement panels in fresher paint. https://www.art.com/products/p34406587625-sa-i9306381/c-47s-unloading-at-tempelhof-airport-during-the-berlin-airlift-june-august-1948.htm?RFID=217825&ProductTarget=34406587625&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIheyvnpfP7wIVSSitBh0x-QBaEAQYAyABEgIrX_D_BwE This link has some interesting period photos, included a couple of the same ones as linked above. Doesn't answer the original poster's questions, but I thought they might be of interest. Like the C-130, I think the DC-3/C-47 will still be flying long after we are all gone. https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/douglas-c-47-skytrain/ Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 Hi, there is a wreck found in Siberia in relatively good conditions. https://ww2incolour.blogspot.com/2012/07/russian-c-47-dakota-found-in-arctic.html It is clear that the wing consoles and the tail still preserve clear remains of the original OD/MG painting. But what about the dark grey shade utilized to repaint the fuselage and central wing plan? Looking at the other photos of the page, it seems that the repainting was partial only. This suggests that the repainting was a restoration of the previous livery, and that the US olive drab and the new paint had to be similar in origin, even if they aged in such different way. Could it be newly supplied US OD paint with a different and more stable chemistry? A Soviet imitation made after the war? Many Soviet lendlease planes appear repainted with a dark and glossy color at the war's end or later. It seems too dark to be Soviet AGT-4, but books on Soviet paints don't describe such shade. I don't think that it was AGT-12 that was prone to fading to a lighter shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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