cherisy Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Hi all. Having just finished an Airfix Valiant I had in the stash, I decided upon the marking option for XD857 of 49 Sqn RAF Marham 1963. The nuclear weapon supplied is the Blue Danube. However This was out of service by 1963 and 49 sqn was part of the Tactical bomber force under control of SACEUR by then. I recently read that they were carrying American weapons under project E. My questions are: what weapons would XD857 have carried and how many? A trawl on the net suggest B28/B43 possibly two at once along with Red Beard. Can anyone clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherry268 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 It is quite possible that some one will have better knowledge of this subject but I can quote the refences I have Firstly "Once the US government agreed that the Mk 28 lightweight bomb could be supplies under Project E, it would be possible to achieve capability by April 1961." Later on it says "The 24 Tactical Bomber Force were cleared for dual carriage of Mk 28 weapons from 13th July 1961" The Mk 28 was described by a captain as " white, shiny and looking very mean" "When the Valiant went to low level capability they received the parachute-retarded lay-down Mk 43, which 207 sqn first recorded in April 1963" This again was carrying two bombs The next reference say " The three squadrons were armed with either conventional bombs ( full load 21 bombs) or American designed tactical nuclear weapons" The third reference states" As well as 21 conventional bombs there was also the ability to carry American designed Mk 5 which were replaced by Mk 28" It doesn't give dates. Hopefully that will give you something to work on, but as always with references nothing is guaranteed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, cherry268 said: It is quite possible that some one will have better knowledge of this subject but I can quote the refences I have Firstly "Once the US government agreed that the Mk 28 lightweight bomb could be supplies under Project E, it would be possible to achieve capability by April 1961." Later on it says "The 24 Tactical Bomber Force were cleared for dual carriage of Mk 28 weapons from 13th July 1961" The Mk 28 was described by a captain as " white, shiny and looking very mean" "When the Valiant went to low level capability they received the parachute-retarded lay-down Mk 43, which 207 sqn first recorded in April 1963" This again was carrying two bombs The next reference say " The three squadrons were armed with either conventional bombs ( full load 21 bombs) or American designed tactical nuclear weapons" The third reference states" As well as 21 conventional bombs there was also the ability to carry American designed Mk 5 which were replaced by Mk 28" It doesn't give dates. Hopefully that will give you something to work on, but as always with references nothing is guaranteed Thats great info .many thanks👍👍 Insofar as a 49 sqn valiant in 1963 then its fair to assume a pair of B43s would be accurate as well as 21 1000lb bombs . As I've already finished her in the anti flash white as the kit suggests I assume it would be the cross over to the camoflage finish ?. As to the conventional load I shall wait till my new vulcan arrives ,as the valiant kit bombs do not resemble any RAF bomb I've seen. Over wise it's two Eduard B43s. Do your refs mention how they were carried? Tandem or side by side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherry268 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, cherisy said: Do your refs mention how they were carried? Tandem or side by side? No sorry no mention of it, or pictures. But the Mk 43 came in with low level and 207sqn first presumably If yours is white, then would it be carrying the low level bomb? I am not sure how many Valiants were painted in camouflage pattern I have no idea which sort but I would have thought you would be safer with the mk28 Difficult one and you may never find the definitely correct answer. Good luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 21 hours ago, cherry268 said: No sorry no mention of it, or pictures. But the Mk 43 came in with low level and 207sqn first presumably If yours is white, then would it be carrying the low level bomb? I am not sure how many Valiants were painted in camouflage pattern I have no idea which sort but I would have thought you would be safer with the mk28 Difficult one and you may never find the definitely correct answer. Good luck I think there was a gradual change over to the low level camo scheme. I've also managed to find some ex valiant types on a well known social media platform who confirmed both B28 And B43 were carried which is handy as Eduard to a B43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherry268 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 That's good news I'll look forward to seeing it built 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 9:18 PM, cherisy said: As to the conventional load I shall wait till my new vulcan arrives ,as the valiant kit bombs do not resemble any RAF bomb I've seen. The bombs in the Airfix kit appear to have been inspired by a drawing in the AP. Unfortunately the drawing is merely a diagram to show how the bombs are arranged in the bomb bay. It is just a bomb "shape" and does not have the profile of any real weapon. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Michou said: The bombs in the Airfix kit appear to have been inspired by a drawing in the AP. Unfortunately the drawing is merely a diagram to show how the bombs are arranged in the bomb bay. It is just a bomb "shape" and does not have the profile of any real weapon. Mike By coincidence I found an IWM clip about bombing up the valiant which was clearly meant as a training aid. One shot includes a schematic showing the "bombs" in place which is clearly the AP you refer to. I can see what you mean. I'm amazed Airfix could do such a good kit but not check references re the bombs. I suppose the re release will include them again. If I made another (which I probably will ) I will use the new vulcan bombs. I'm glad airfix have come along way since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The west wing Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Dont know if this helps a place nearby, RAF Barnham was where the Blue Danube was stored and serviced, Marham is only a few miles from there. On their website the base was closed in 1963 and states the Blue Danube had been replaced with Red Beard nuclear weapon. RAF Barnham is an interesting place, and I did not know it existed untill I visited a unit on the site and parked the car next to a Blue Danube. The chap who owns the site is trying to keep it intact and open it as a museum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 55 minutes ago, The west wing said: Dont know if this helps a place nearby, RAF Barnham was where the Blue Danube was stored and serviced, Marham is only a few miles from there. On their website the base was closed in 1963 and states the Blue Danube had been replaced with Red Beard nuclear weapon. RAF Barnham is an interesting place, and I did not know it existed untill I visited a unit on the site and parked the car next to a Blue Danube. The chap who owns the site is trying to keep it intact and open it as a museum. Yep I know RAF Barnham well. In fact I did a stint of guard duty on the accommodation side when I was in the RAF at Honington back in the1990s. I never saw the Blue Danube though. I believe that's on what is now the industrial units ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The west wing Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 When you come off the main road there are a series of buildings on the right, the road goes on further then enters the main site. The bomb is on the road side at the junction where the loop goes around the large buildings and returns to the junction. When things improve I hope to go there when the owner does guided tours again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Bob Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, The west wing said: Dont know if this helps a place nearby, RAF Barnham was where the Blue Danube was stored and serviced, Marham is only a few miles from there. On their website the base was closed in 1963 and states the Blue Danube had been replaced with Red Beard nuclear weapon. RAF Barnham is near RAF Honington, RAF Marham is over 30 miles further north. When Blue Danube weapons were used at Honington and other V-Bomber stations there was a requirement for them to be stored over 1 mile from the aircraft and runway as they were deemed too unstable to be stored on the actual base. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherisy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Retired Bob said: RAF Barnham is near RAF Honington, RAF Marham is over 30 miles further north. When Blue Danube weapons were used at Honington and other V-Bomber stations there was a requirement for them to be stored over 1 mile from the aircraft and runway as they were deemed too unstable to be stored on the actual base. Ironically when I was at Honington on the 90s they were storing the WE177 on site post retirement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The west wing Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Retired Bob said: RAF Marham is over 30 miles further north Living in Norfolk 30 is just a few miles😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Bob Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, The west wing said: Living in Norfolk 30 is just a few miles😀 That's just because it is flat...ish, I spent about 9 years at Marham through the 70s and 80s, great times working on the Canberra and Victor aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Bob Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, cherisy said: Ironically when I was at Honington on the 90s they were storing the WE177 on site post retirement Later weapon systems were safer, especially after we were helped by our American cousins. WE177 were the last free fall nuclear weapons held by the RAF. Here is a live WE177 thermonuclear weapon in the fit for a Tornado aircraft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hadland Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 9:05 PM, cherisy said: Hi all. Having just finished an Airfix Valiant I had in the stash, I decided upon the marking option for XD857 of 49 Sqn RAF Marham 1963. The nuclear weapon supplied is the Blue Danube. However This was out of service by 1963 and 49 sqn was part of the Tactical bomber force under control of SACEUR by then. I recently read that they were carrying American weapons under project E. My questions are: what weapons would XD857 have carried and how many? A trawl on the net suggest B28/B43 possibly two at once along with Red Beard. Can anyone clarify? I've just been reading an Magazine article (Aeroplane April 2021 No 576) about the Nuclear Weapons carried by the V-Force and as per the article it was Blue Steel W100 for high level deployment and then that evolved into Blue Steel W200 for low level deployment. There was also plans to Skybolt, with either the original W-47 warhead or the US W-59 warhead. Of course all of this came to an end when the UK got Polaris in June 1968. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Coupla more pics... https://imgur.com/S82kDso https://imgur.com/YFd72PL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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