Old types of British flying boats during WW2?

[JWM]

Hi,

I am finishing with build of Saro Lerwick  and my thoughts went to older flying boats used in RAF on the outbreak of WW2. Types like Saro London or Short Singapore are defintly types used in war, I hope to get them one day from Contrail.  However I would like to ask about Supermarine Scapa, Saro Cloud and maybe Short Rangoon. The Scapa looks that is doable as scratch conversion of Stranraer and there is a injected  kit of Saro Cloud by Valom. Rangoon is perhaps out of mine range - I did not found any trace of serving this type beyond 1938. 

About Cloud Wiki says: "The final Cloud was delivered to the RAF in 1935 and after a few years' service as trainers the last operational aircraft were withdrawn from service in July 1939" but also: 

A.19/2

Special variant powered by three 215 hp Armstrong Siddeley Lynx IVC engines and registered G-ABHG. Due to problems with the engine installation it was re-engined with two 425 hp (317 kW) Pratt & Whitney Wasp C radials before delivery. It was also fitted with an auxiliary aerofoil above the engines and twin fins and rudders to improve directional control. Sold to Imperial Airways in 1940 as a crew trainer but damaged beyond repair in 1941 and scrapped.

So it looks that at least the latest 3-engines prototype with double tail was flying during war time...

Scapa looks to serve till 1938 or 1939 - were there phased out to ant second line or just scraped?

I have found that both Scapa and Rangoon were used in a blockade during Spanish Civil War. How it looked like? Were they involved in any incidents?

 

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

No information on the S serial Rangoons.  As of 3 September 1939 the RAF strength return reported no Cloud or Rangoon but 4 Scapa under Training/Communication heading.  Down to 2 Scapa on 1 May 1940 and 0 on 3 September 1940. 

 

According to the information I have the 210 Squadron Rangoons were flown from Gibraltar to Britain the month the Spanish Civil War began.  Other references suggest it was earlier.

 

For a hint on a possible incident, 

 

As of 31 December 1938 number 240 squadron is listed as being Scapa equipped but in fact had Singapores.  Clouds served with 48 Squadron for 6 months January to June 1936 via B flight of the Seaplane Training Squadron being attached,  Rangoons served with 203 squadron March 1931 to September 1935 and with 210 squadron August 1935 to September 1936.  Scapa are listed as 202 Squadron May 1935 to November 1937, 204 Squadron August 1935 to January 1937, 228 Squadron February 1937 to August 1938 and 240 Squadron March 1937 to January 1939.  With 202 squadron based in Malta January 1929 to September 1939.    
 

Usual disclaimer on the following, read from a digitised copy of a microfilm copy of hand written original documents, so some can be hard to read.

K2681    Cloud    SOC 28 April 1939
K2894    Cloud    SOC 24 February 1939
K2895    Cloud    SOC 29 April 1937
K2896    Cloud    SOC 6 January 1938
K2897    Cloud    Became 938M, date unknown
K2898    Cloud    SOC 16 December 1938
K3722    Cloud    SOC 15 November 1938
K3723    Cloud    SOC 14 December 1938
K3724    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K3725    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K3726    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K3727    Cloud    SOC 16 December 1938
K3728    Cloud    SOC 25 October 1938
K3729    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K4300    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K4301    Cloud    SOC July 1939
K4302    Cloud    Became 939M, date unknown
K2134    Rangoon    210 Sqn 12 Aug 1936, Sold, no date given.
K2809    Rangoon    210 Sqn 12 Aug 1936, Sold, no date given.
K3678    Rangoon    210 Sqn 12 Aug 1936, Sold, no date given.
K4191    Scapa    SOC 21 Dec 1938
K4192    Scapa    SOC 6 February 1936
K4193    Scapa    SOC 31 December 1938
K4194    Scapa    SOC 1 November 1938
K4195    Scapa    SOC 8 February 1939
K4196    Scapa    SOC 12 October 1937
K4197    Scapa    SOC 18 July 1939
K4198    Scapa    SOC 29 August 1940
K4199    Scapa    SOC 9 July 1940? , year field unclear, it really looks like 70.
K4200    Scapa    SOC 12 October 1937
K4565    Scapa    Sold 11 October 1939
K7304    Scapa    SOC 26 August 1940 became 2191M
K7305    Scapa    SOC 16 August 1939
K7306    Scapa    SOC 8 December 1938

[JWM]

3 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

No information on the S serial Rangoons.  As of 3 September 1939 the RAF strength return reported no Cloud or Rangoon but 4 Scapa under Training/Communication heading.  Down to 2 Scapa on 1 May 1940 and 0 on 3 September 1940. 

Man thanks! So it looks that Scapa can be treated as machine used during WW2...

Many thanks for a detailed description of individual machine histories and for the link to the interesting thread. Besides Spanish Civil War I have found some kind of Rangoons being involved in Abissynia crisis in 1935 (from Wiki) " In September 1935, they were temporarily deployed to Gibraltar during the Abyssinia Crisis, and all were retired from service at the end of 1935."

 

Regards

J-W

 

[AltcarBoB]

The Supermarine Stranraer served throughout the war with the RCAF. I read somewhere that for air sea rescue work the Stranraer was preferred to the Canso (Canadian built Catalina) as it handled better on the water

[JWM]

46 minutes ago, AltcarBoB said:

The Supermarine Stranraer served throughout the war with the RCAF. 

Of course, the Stranraer has the share in WW2 efforts, indeed till 1944 in RCAF. I have already on my shelves Stranraer, Sunderland, Sea Otter, Walrus and Empire (all were presented in RFI within last year maybe). Finishing Lerwick I realized that I have to search for Singapore and London to complete the set of British flying boats and amphibians - and now the Scapa came into the set... BTW - I have not seen any wartime photo of Scapa, I mean the Scapa in camo. 

I am lucky that the Cloud , Rangoon and Southampton are not included, however the latest were flying during all the WW2 years in Argentina and Turkey (well, both were neutral countries), anyway -  maybe one day I will have to build it as well

Regards

J-W

 

[AltcarBoB]

34 minutes ago, JWM said:

Of course, the Stranraer has the share in WW2 efforts, indeed till 1944 in RCAF. I have already on my shelves Stranraer, Sunderland, Sea Otter, Walrus and Empire (all were presented in RFI within last year maybe). Finishing Lerwick I realized that I have to search for Singapore and London to complete the set of British flying boats and amphibians - and now the Scapa came into the set... BTW - I have not seen any wartime photo of Scapa, I mean the Scapa in camo. 

I am lucky that the Cloud , Rangoon and Southampton are not included, however the latest were flying during all the WW2 years in Argentina and Turkey (well, both were neutral countries), anyway -  maybe one day I will have to build it as well

Regards

J-W

 

I have a Matchbox made in England Stranraer in the stash.

[JWM]

2 hours ago, AltcarBoB said:

I have a Matchbox made in England Stranraer in the stash.

I do not know if you are familiar with some flaws of this kit. The right (port) side large cargo door are to be replaced by a window. Those doors were a post war civil cargo modification (and therefore are present in a Hendon museum machine). The lower wings should had a small bomb bays, which are not done in kit. I was constructing 4 blade props for  RCAF machine with different MGs also, so a bit more was to change.

 

Regards

J-W 

Edited March 21, 2021 by JWM

[AltcarBoB]

52 minutes ago, JWM said:

I do not know if you are familiar with some flaws of this kit. The right (port) side large cargo door are to be replaced by a window. Those doors were a post war civil cargo modification (and therefore are present in a Hendon museum machine). The lower wings should had a small bomb bays, which is not done in kit. I was constructing 4 blade props for  RCAF machine with different MGs also, so a bit more was to change.

 

Regards

J-W 

I was aware the kit has some flaws but I haven't done any research yet. Thanks for the information 😊

So far all I have done is buy a pair of resin Pegasus engines.

[dogsbody]

Carl Vincent ( @Carl V ) has asked me to post these for him.

 

"  

I trust that this will be seen as not totally irrelevant in a thread that concerns early British flying boats in WW II. I would just like to illustrate the fact that the RCAF also had several early Canadian flying boats in the first year or so of the war.

The first three photos depict Canadian Vickers Vancouver II, serial 903  coded FY.D and the last two Canadian Vickers Vedette VI, serial 817 coded FY .F. They are serving with 4 (BR) Squadron at RCAF Jericho Beach, Vancouver in the spring of 1940.

I hope these photos will be of some interest but I would not advise anybody to hold their breath until a suitable kit emerges.  "

 

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris, for Carl

 

 

 

[JWM]

14 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Carl Vincent ( @Carl V ) has asked me to post these for him.

 

Cars and Chris, thank you for this hint on RCAF types, very interesting to know it

Ragards

J-W