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Franco-German C-130 unit


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I can be wrong but I think that I read somewhere last year that the German Gouvernement has bought six C-130s but they cannot fly in home airspace because in Germany the certification for a new aircraft can take years to decades (I am not joking!) and that is why they are stationed in France.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

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On 4/22/2021 at 5:29 PM, GiampieroSilvestri said:

they cannot fly in home airspace

Hmmm.  That seems dubious in the case of the Hercules, where we have flown them, in various incarnations, for decades.  A squadron of C-130Js remains based at Ramstein AB.  

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On 4/30/2021 at 11:00 PM, TheyJammedKenny! said:

Hmmm.  That seems dubious in the case of the Hercules, where we have flown them, in various incarnations, for decades.  A squadron of C-130Js remains based at Ramstein AB.  

 

Sure, but there is probably a difference between an aircraft being operated by foreign militaries (I suspect that the Germans have limited control over what the former occupying powers bring in!) and certifying the same aircraft to operate under your own flag. That said, one would expect that an aircraft as proven as the C-130 shouldn't need a long and difficult certification! 

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5 hours ago, torqueofthedevil said:

(I suspect that the Germans have limited control over what the former occupying powers bring in!)

On the contrary.  There is a SOFA and a SOFA-supplemental, as well as other military-to-military and military-diplomatic exchanges that clarify equipment, forces, structures, installations, and so forth.  NATO is NOT the Warsaw Pact.  The U.S. and its Allies do not introduce equipment or move equipment across borders (even within the NATO Alliance) without careful coordination with civil authorities.

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On 6/5/2021 at 4:10 PM, TheyJammedKenny! said:

On the contrary.  There is a SOFA and a SOFA-supplemental, as well as other military-to-military and military-diplomatic exchanges that clarify equipment, forces, structures, installations, and so forth.  NATO is NOT the Warsaw Pact.  The U.S. and its Allies do not introduce equipment or move equipment across borders (even within the NATO Alliance) without careful coordination with civil authorities.

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. When did that start? There must have been a period after the war when consulting the Germans wouldn't even have occurred to the occupying powers, and presumably the same mentality lasted well into the NATO era? 

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1 hour ago, torqueofthedevil said:

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. When did that start?

I don't know.  I would refer you to the German Defense and Foreign Ministries, who are the authorities when it comes to German policy and Status of Forces Agreements (SOFA).  As far as I know, "former occupying power" is not a term of art in current use.  Certainly, the U.S. was one of several occupying powers, but that was more than 70 years ago, and is of historical interest only.

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On 6/12/2021 at 4:19 PM, torqueofthedevil said:

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. When did that start?

 

With the reunification and the 2+4 treaties Germany regained full sovereignity ... in 1990.

Any .... "occupying powers"  ... are looooooong gone.

Edited by bushande
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I was told by a very friendly German aviation-fan years ago that Luftwaffe airframes are not allowed to fly at foreign airshows, under German Law. They can fly to any airshow and appear in the static display, but actual flying-displays are prohibited. 

 

Is this correct?

 

Chris.

Edited by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.
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No, there is nothing prohibited by law and it has even less to do with any sovereignity questions.

The higher Luftwaffe command being ..... "obliged" by a political class that has next to no interest in anything that flies or military just doesn't want to dish out the money for it and yes some in the political class just think that everyone else on the planet has their negative stance towards the German military. But that negative self view slowly seems to ease a bit lately.

A good ten years ago it would have been a major no no for the Luftwaffe to put up a display team at all. Not because it was forbidden by law but rather because it would be considered politically incorrect by the mostly liberal "colored" modern society. For a few years now the Luftwaffe has installed something like a display service for the Typhoon wandering from squadron to squadron every two years. Heck, a few years back it would have been seen as an audacity to have a Typhoon display with some hooraah behind it but after someone just risked to play some decent hard rock to the baby blue Luftwaffe 60 anniv. jet in 2016 it was a cool thing to have AC DC's "Thunder Struck" play to "my" Ghost Tiger Typhoons display in 2018. And yes they can do displays outside of Germany but leadership is just not very willing to go the extra mile. For instance a few years back the Germans flew a display with the Typhoon at the Radom airshow in Poland for their centenniary or they flew a display at the Ziger Meet in Switzerland etc.. It's definitely not prohibited by law or anything the like.

Edited by bushande
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On 3/21/2021 at 8:23 PM, Truro Model Builder said:

Fully integrated squadron by the sound of it.

 

Reminds me of the TTTE at Cottesmore.

 

Thomas The Tank Engine 😂

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3 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

I was told by a very friendly German aviation-fan years ago that Luftwaffe airframes are not allowed to fly at foreign airshows, under German Law. They can fly to any airshow and appear in the static display, but actual flying-displays are prohibited. 

 

Is this correct?

 

Chris.

this is rather off-topic now already, but..

 

back in the days when there still was a Berlin airshow at Schönefled the Luftwaffe did display their jets in flight.. a bit high and far away but still....

 

there is no miliary airshow scene in Germany,... remember Ramstein (the reason for the bandname, not the band...)

 

Luftwaffe, Marinefieger and heer even took part in Austrian airshows in the 2000s, and in a great way that was! lately only more or less static :(

 

politics, no airshow culture ... and an over correct military... in parts at least are the main reasons....

 

but German Tiger helicptors train together with the French ones in PAU, German jets take part in military exercises abroad (Tigermeet, TLP, Red Flag, etc....) they even tranied their Tornado crew in Holoman / US up until recently and still do all their fast jet trinig in the US (albeit on USAF T-38s)

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17 hours ago, exdraken said:

USAF T-38s

I would make a minor adjustment to that.  The Luftwaffe owns the T-38s.  Needless to say, Holloman offers many advantages as a training area for fast-movers!

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I can remember the 'Vikings' display team in the 80's flying Starfighters as a pair, not sure if Luftwaffe or Marineflieger, also MFG2 used to display their Tornadoes  very regularly. Their were other types too that flew, F4F comes to mind.

My memory is not the best so I stand to be corrected.

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