Spitfire VIII with High Altitude scheme and 73 Squadron yellow flash. Identity?

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello

 

Just finished reading book 8 (Balkan Air Force chapter) of Don Minternes The History ot 73 Squadron, Part 3 which arrived yesterday from Croatia.

Thanks to Jure and Hornet133 for the tip in the thread 73 Sqn RAF flash colour on 1944 Spitfire https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235089371-73-sqn-raf-flash-colour-on-1944-spitfire/

 

On page 89 of the book is poorish quality photo captioned: "...Sitting forlornly in the middle, its prop on the deck in front of it, is a 73 Spitfire in what appears to be PRU blue"

 

Fortunately the photo can be found from IWM digital archive. There is indeed a Spitfire with 73 Sqn flash in the middle (see the Post Scriptum for the term/name Flash) of this photo of 110 MU park at Brindisi.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209426 (one can download bigger picture)

 

 

 

 

 

Minterne gives list of 73 Sqn Spitfires and there was only two Mark VIIIs: 
JF560 17-7-44 from 32 Sqn 29-9-44 to 253 Sqn.
JF898 17-7-44 from 32 Sqn  crashed at Vis (an Adriatic island) Cat II 25 July 1944.

 

Questions:

• Has the plane been identified?
• Can the photo be dated?
• Was JF898 retrieved from Vis? It was SOC not until 31-12-46 according Minterne.  With the flash remaining the plane could be JF898. Assuming 253 Sqn painted their markings on JF560.
• Can anyone decipher the possibly over-painted code on the plane? Y, V, perhaps? 

 

I hope fruitful discussion and outcome.

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

PS

Squadron magazine "The Flash" May 1945: 
"73 has been accorded the double privilege of bearing a squadron crest and what has come to be known as the "flash" on the aircraft" (p. 81 on the book)

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Kari Lumppio

[brewerjerry]

Hi.  

     Slightly off topic, but is that a PR hurricane with a type B roundel in the row in front of it ?

   Cheers 

     Jerry 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by brewerjerry

[gingerbob]

Could it be a IX?  Note the absence of an Aero Vee tropical filter.

[Magpie22]

I'm with Bob. Looks like a IX to me. And could it be MSG over PRU Blue?

Peter M

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello, Kari

I agree with Peter M, the plane does not seem to be in overall PRU blue scheme. Again, I am in no position to check my sources, but it is worth looking into 73 Sqn ORB about possible recovery of the JF898 and her continued use. By the way, there is at least one more ex-73 Sqn Spitfire on the photo. Slightly closer to the camera there is a Spitfire V with what appears to be two-tone blue with yellow strips 73 Sqn flash, painted over with 249 Sqn GN-F code letters. Cheers

Jure

[fishplanebeer]

Judging by the early style carb intake along with the original non-pointed rudder I'd be inclined to go for a Mk IX and perhaps the MSG over PR Blue colour scheme as suggested along with a MSG (or possibly even red) spinner. Not sure I've ever seem a Mk VIII without the aero vee intake hence my inclination 

 

Regards

Colin.

[Alex Gordon]

As regards a date I'm going to plump for after 3/6/44.

 

This aircraft at the front left of the photo looks to be in French markings.

 

 

My go to source for Spitfire serial numbers has this to say;

 

EP656 Vb CBAF M46 6MU 19-7-42 47MU 5-8-42 ? Takoradi 14-10-42 NAfricanASC 1-1-43 Armee de l'Air GR2/33 3-6-44 Middle East 26-4-45 SOC 29-8-46

 

EP658 Vb CBAF M46 38MU 19-7-42 82MU 26-8-42 Empire Franklin 30-8-42 Gibraltar 14-9-42 Malta 1-12-42 NAfricanASC 31-10-43 Armee de l'Air 14-3-46

 

This can be found here http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p039.html

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Alex Gordon
Gave the wrong date.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

Than you all for the pondering. Few remarks:

• Don Minternes in his book captions wrote "appears to be PRU blue"
• it was I who did think it was rather High Altitude scheme and put that in the title
• HA scheme is more logical on Spitfire VIII so I put that in the title. In hindsight the question mark should be for the whole title

I was today able to download two ORBs (Kew download limit). There seems to be only form 540 available for 73 Sqn July 1944 so no aircraft serials

AIR 27/634/13: July 25, 1944 18.15-19.05 "... The Section returned to VIS. SGT PRATT crashed his aircraft on landing and severely damaged it. The pilot was unhurt." . That should be JF898 even if the ORB writes about IXs.

 

Of the photo. I took the thing under fuselage to be the starboard wing radiator. I have to admit that no bell rang for me that there should be carburettor intake, too. But is there carburetor at all and is the lower cowling missing? The original photo and loupe would be needed. Can the photo date be derived from the IWM CNA number?

 

What is the jury decision about the camouflage and code? HA scheme or not? Aircraft code Y, V, unclear or something else?

 

Cheers,

Kari

[M20gull]

13 hours ago, Alex Gordon said:

As regards a date I'm going to plump for after 1/1/1943.

 

This aircraft at the front left of the photo looks to be in French markings.

 

 

My go to source for Spitfire serial numbers has this to say;

 

EP656 Vb CBAF M46 6MU 19-7-42 47MU 5-8-42 ? Takoradi 14-10-42 NAfricanASC 1-1-43 Armee de l'Air GR2/33 3-6-44 Middle East 26-4-45 SOC 29-8-46

 

EP658 Vb CBAF M46 38MU 19-7-42 82MU 26-8-42 Empire Franklin 30-8-42 Gibraltar 14-9-42 Malta 1-12-42 NAfricanASC 31-10-43 Armee de l'Air 14-3-46

 

This can be found here http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p039.html

 

Wikipedia has gr2/33 arriving in Italy in May 1944 and leaving for France in August, converting from Vs to IXs in September.

[SteveBrooking]

Hi all

 

In the original IWM photo the last aircraft towards the top on the right is a RAF Mustang III with BAF identity bands that would suggest a date June 1944 or later.

 

Steve

[Alex Gordon]

5 hours ago, M20gull said:

Wikipedia has gr2/33 arriving in Italy in May 1944 and leaving for France in August, converting from Vs to IXs in September.

Thanks for that old fruit,I read the wrong date on the gen that I found,I've edited my post accordingly.

[M20gull]

1 hour ago, Alex Gordon said:

Thanks for that old fruit,I read the wrong date on the gen that I found,I've edited my post accordingly.

http://2.33.savoie.free.fr/html/gr2_33.html has the photo dated as November and gives EP656 as the serial for the French V.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello Kari

JF898 must have been either recovered or, more probably in my opinion, repaired in situ. She appears again in ORB, record of events (AIR-27-634-16), on 13th and 14th August, but disappears from squadron records after that date. On the other hand, JF560 had been in use with 73 Sqn until at least the end of September 1944. Cheers

Jure

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

I could not find find the 73 Sqn Form 541s for July and August 1944 ( -14 and -16?) today morning when looked for them at Kew site! Have to look again.

 

Last JF560 flight I have found with 73 Sqn is September 23rd, 1944, pilot F/Lt R(alph) Kirker. 

 

The photo is taken at 110 MU so not directly tied to activities of flying squadrons.

 

 

Kari

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Kari Lumppio

[Kari Lumppio]

Hi!

 

The 73 Sq Form 541s for July and August 1944 (AIR-27-634-14 and 16) are to be found under May title! Like Jure earlier wrote JF898 does appear in August logs after it crash at VIS late July. 

Mysteriously the last flight 14.8.1944 is from base to Vis and then the paper trail goes cold.

 

As Cat II damage is repairable by depot perhaps the photo of interest shows JF898 under repairs at 110 MU Brindisi early August between 27 July -13th August!

 

The aircraft code letter seems to stay unknown or uncertain at least. If it really is of IX subvariant then all bets are out.

 

 

Thanks for interest,

Kari

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Kari Lumppio

[Phoenix44]

On 19/03/2021 at 19:48, Alex Gordon said:

As regards a date I'm going to plump for after 3/6/44.

 

This aircraft at the front left of the photo looks to be in French markings.

 

 

My go to source for Spitfire serial numbers has this to say;

 

EP656 Vb CBAF M46 6MU 19-7-42 47MU 5-8-42 ? Takoradi 14-10-42 NAfricanASC 1-1-43 Armee de l'Air GR2/33 3-6-44 Middle East 26-4-45 SOC 29-8-46

 

EP658 Vb CBAF M46 38MU 19-7-42 82MU 26-8-42 Empire Franklin 30-8-42 Gibraltar 14-9-42 Malta 1-12-42 NAfricanASC 31-10-43 Armee de l'Air 14-3-46

 

This can be found here http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p039.html

 

And that's a fair old exhaust stain on that one!