Identity of this Algerine Class Minesweeper?

[robgizlu]

IWM collections labels this Algerine as "HMS Tumult" which is incorrect as HMS Tumult was a T-Class Destroyer.

 

 

 

The Date is credited as 24th March 1943 and the location stated as Greenock.

I've searched on Greenock etc and come up with nothing.  I'm concscious that @michaele posted on Modelwarships asking the same without reply.

 

I'm also aware that the scheme is similar to HMS Mutine (and HMS Hound) which was discussed here..

Algerine Minesweeper colours, very late war or early post war

 

The colours are reversed in that the darker here (?B15/15) most nearly accord with the MS4 on Mutine

 

 

The intermediate grey seems darker on the "unknown" Algerine, ?MS3 or 507C/G45?

The lighter colour would fit with MS4?

Thanks in anticipation if anyone can throw light on identity or cares to speculate further about the colours

Rob

 

 

 

[Kevin Aris]

HMS TUMULT. 24 MARCH 1943, GREENOCK. | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)

HMS TUMULT. 24 MARCH 1943, GREENOCK. | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)

agreed they do  show it as HMS Tumult surprised they made that mistake

Edited March 18, 2021 by Kevin Aris

[Kevin Aris]

you could contact Sovereign  hobbies, 

Colourcoats Sea– Sovereign Hobbies

[mick b]

1 hour ago, robgizlu said:

IWM collections labels this Algerine as "HMS Tumult" which is incorrect as HMS Tumult was a T-Class Destroyer.

 

 

 

The Date is credited as 24th March 1943 and the location stated as Greenock.

I've searched on Greenock etc and come up with nothing.  I'm concscious that @michaele posted on Modelwarships asking the same without reply.

 

I'm also aware that the scheme is similar to HMS Mutine (and HMS Hound) which was discussed here..

Algerine Minesweeper colours, very late war or early post war

 

The colours are reversed in that the darker here (?B15/15) most nearly accord with the MS4 on Mutine

 

 

The intermediate grey seems darker on the "unknown" Algerine, ?MS3 or 507C/G45?

The lighter colour would fit with MS4?

Thanks in anticipation if anyone can throw light on identity or cares to speculate further about the colours

Rob

 

 

 

 

In my copy of The Algerines by Jack Williams it is shown as HMS Fantome before leaving the UK for the Med in January 1943.

 

There is a second image of her in the same scheme showing her stern blown off from a mine off North Africa on 20th May 43.

 

Mike

Edited March 18, 2021 by mick b

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I have other photographs of Fantome captioned December 1942 (but this could be up to a few months late) in a similar but noticeably different in detail scheme.

[robgizlu]

Any thoughts on the colour palette Jamie?

Rob

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Here's one of those pictures of HMS Fantome I mentioned

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

7 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Any thoughts on the colour palette Jamie?

Rob

 

To start with this (which, incidently, does not exactly reconcile with HMS Mutine as-painted - although I've no reason to doubt it matched the long-lost Leamington Spa design sheets Hodges saw) we can work away:

 

 

I perceive the darkest tone on the as-yet unconfirmed identity Algerine class at the top as something around MS2 or 507A. We have an dark-medium tone which may be B5 (or possibly MS3) and we have a lighter tone e.g. 507C or perhaps MS4A. I get the general impression that it's a higher contrast variant of the general Mutine design, and to achieve the same average tone, thereabouts, if it were my model I might go MS2 (or 507A), B5 and MS4A. This is a weakly held opinion though and I'd hate for anyone to think it anything other than a guess!

[dickrd]

I am inclined to believe the late March 1943 date of the IWM photos A 15577 & A15578 of this minesweeper. HMS Mahratta (A15579) is in the series of photos (A15577- A15583) taken on the Clyde at Greenock that day by Beadell and Mahratta was newly completed at Greenock at that time. ORP Burza's movements (in the background of A15577) would be another point of reference.

 

At that time only four Algerines were in Home Waters: Fantome, Fly, Hound, and Hydra. Small differences in structural details rule out Fly, Hound and Hydra. So by this process of elimination we are left with Fantome. (To be absolutely sure one would need to see the relevant Pink List to confirm Fantome was on the Clyde that day (and indeed that she was the senior ship of her flotilla)).

 

This is I suspect the photo mick b refers to showing Fantome damaged at the stern by a mine that snagged in her minesweeping gear.  The camouflage pattern matches our mystery ship. 

      

Edited March 20, 2021 by dickrd

[mick b]

Correct, that is the image I was referencing. It also states in Williams’ ( ex Algerine class veteran 43-46 and founder of the Algerine Association) book that Fantome was the Senior Officer Ship of the 12th Minesweeping Flotilla under the command of Captain J.W Boutwood RN as of the 9th May 1943, being mined on the 19th and that despite being towed back to Bone was a total loss. Previous to the 9th May she had been engaged on convoy escort duties

 

She wasn’t commissioned till Jan 43 which throws into question Jamie’s image of her in Dec 42 with a white ensign on the stern?

 

Mike