WWII US Navy colours - comparison chart?

[ptarmigan]

A significant portion of my models are US Navy WWII planes. I'm a brush painter and strongly prefer water-based acrylics. Currently mostly Revell, which is an excellent paint for brush painting - covers nicely, self-levels, does not need a primer ...  And sometimes Agama, basically the same stuff as Xtracrylix. Unfortunately, Revell's range does not really cover the "original" WWII colours (nor does Xtracrylix). The colours I need are basically those listed here: https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/us-navy-aircraft-colour-schemes I have done my research (in the literature, here and elsewhere on web). However, getting period correct M-485 colours,  ANA colours for the tri-colour (acually 4 colour) scheme or a correct (pre-1947) Glossy Sea Blue proved to be a real pain.

 

I know that the typical answer one gets here is "just buy Colourcoats". I understand that Jamie has made sure these are as historically correct as possible, but they are not exactly a match for me. First, they are enamels. Second, obtaining them from where I live is bordering on impossible. At NNT Model they had only three of the paints I need (when I last checked), and it would mean €4 per paint plus €14 shipping costs. And Naval Models, who stock more colours, haven't bothered to reply to my query whether they are willing to ship to me for two weeks (and counting)   I'm willing to mix my paints, and  I want to use as accurate colours as possible. Unfortunately, for this I would need paint chips, which are hard to get. The Official Monogram Guide is quite an expensive proposition to buy, more so from the EU (if the seller is willing to post there), and using Colourcoats as a secondary source to make paint chips is off the table for the reasons above.

 

Which brings me to my question. Does anybody have a direct comparison of the colours offered by various manufacturers to the Monogram chips?

 

I mean something like what Jamie did for some Vallejo paints in this post:

 

 

Or like the pinned RLM Luftwaffe comparison chart:

 

 

[Troy Smith]

On 17/03/2021 at 00:02, ptarmigan said:

Does anybody have a direct comparison of the colours offered by various manufacturers to the Monogram chips?

I bought the AK USN/USMC set,  and compared to the Monogram guide, which I was lucky to pick up, they are useless.  

 

I did make a what seemed a reasonable mix for ANA 623,  using Tamiya, and a 'lead' from a @Mike Starmer humbrol mix, which was Humbrol 77 Sea Blue and Humbrol purple! (68 IIRC) 

 

One problem is folks are so conditioned from model paint and colour photos that show a dark blue green,  that realising the actual chip colours are, (this from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies)  "a deep smoky blue"  smoky being as in a warm grey,  hence why the purple added to blue green gets you in the right area.

 

But, there were old Tamiya 23ml pots, so not sure if the newer 10ml are the same... anyway, it was a 1:1 mix of XF-17 Sea Blue to X-16 Purple, which is also quote glossy as well. 

I was then playing around adding in XF-50 Field Blue, to try to get ANA606 and 607, but ran out of enthusiasm, as they were not a simple mix.... 

 

Problem  with ANA606, 607 and 623, they are similar, and hard to match the differences,  as they are all very dark.   You really have to see them in bright daylight to see the differences.

This is where on of the colorimeter devices would come in handy, but I've not got that kind of cash spare, even for the basic one.

 

For Vallejo, something like Model Color Prussian Blue and maybe one of their very dark blue greens may get to the right area.   I'm not near my stuff much at the mo, or I'd have a play.  

 

I suspect that there won't be a close match in the Vallejo range,  as they are 'odd' colours.

 

I noted Hataka do a ANA 623/FS15042,  I did write and point out they are not the same, but go no response.

 

Finally, @ptarmigan, are not MRP Czech based and one of the better companies for colour matches.  Please ignore of I'm misremembering, and this is total cobblers.

 

HTH

 

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

This is where on of the colorimeter devices would come in handy, but I've not got that kind of cash spare, even for the basic one.

 

Hi Troy,

 

If you ever want objective data of various mixes or samples feel free to send them my way. It's very quick and easy for me to measure and note down the results on a table to send back. I'd need fairly level swatches (the sensor needs to sit firmly on it to exclude ambient light so an overly lumpy/bumpy swatch might give false readings if the high spots of paint force the sensor face to stand off other bits with light leaking in between) about an inch square. Gloss or matt makes no real difference.

 

You may remember I've done this previously for others who wanted something compared to something else, e.g.

 

I don't have quite everything but I have a fair amount of accepted standard-y type stuff to compare against if that's what you need.

[ptarmigan]

On 01/04/2021 at 18:50, Troy Smith said:

I bought the AK USN/USMC set,  and compared to the Monogram guide, which I was lucky to pick up, they are useless.  

 

Thanks for confirming my suspicion (and the stuff I heard) about the AK paints (and for pointing out some other options). I have some favourites/mixes in other paint ranges (when I was still using enamels, I also was reasonably happy with a mix based on Humbrol 77) however its is hard to tell how far these colours are from the original ones without having access to proper paint chips.

 

On 01/04/2021 at 18:50, Troy Smith said:

Finally, @ptarmigan, are not MRP Czech based and one of the better companies for colour matches.  Please ignore of I'm misremembering, and this is total cobblers.

 

Close enough 🙂, MRP are from Slovakia (the Czech ones are Agama/Xtracolor/Xtracrylix). Unfortunately the regular MRP are lacquer-based, and their Aqua range (MRP-A) is quite limited and not exactly brushable.

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Since you were here - I believe there is a tiny typo in your US Navy Aircraft Colour Schemes webpage I linked to in the original post. The correct "Insignia White" for the "tri-colour" scheme should be ACUS037, not the post-war ACUS036. And, BTW, thanks for all the hard work put into making Colourcoats as accurate as possible 👍. I hope to be able to lay my hands on some in the future.

Edited April 2, 2021 by ptarmigan
typo

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

10 hours ago, ptarmigan said:

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Since you were here - I believe there is a tiny typo in your US Navy Aircraft Colour Schemes webpage I linked to in the original post. The correct "Insignia White" for the "tri-colour" scheme should be ACUS037, not the post-war ACUS036

 

Apparently I did screw that up. It's now fixed. Thanks!