A DH Vampire (another boring ehrrr... exciting 28 Sqn build)

[Pete in Lincs]

8 hours ago, hendie said:

A colonoscopy is more fun than a CA kit

That'll be me then. Thursday morning in Grantham. I'll try to remember to smile.

Looks like the intakes have it, and the tailplane has a thumbs down. At least the booms aren't too wonky.

(I once found a wooden box of NOS Vampire booms (made in Italy) in one of the scrap Aircraft yards on Riyadh base.

 

Have you thought that it may have been easier to defect to another Squadron & build their Aircraft?

How much sanding could there be on a Hunter?

[TheBaron]

I love the brass undercarriage that you've made here Alan, to which some kind of plastic creature appears to have attached itself.

 

Ps. 'Classic Airframes' =  carcass filers aim....

 

 

 

 

 

[Head in the clouds.]

10 out of 10 for persistence and stamina, just when you think you have built the worst kit another pops up.

 

I think you have done a grand job on them there intakes, not an easy area to correct.

[hendie]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:02 AM, The Spadgent said:

I’m trying to think what’s left that won’t fit. Did you try the canopy yet? I can’t seem to remember. too much dust in the noggin. 😣 Good luck with moving the tail. At least she’s moving in the right direction. Those intakes do look good you know.😀

Johnny

 

Thanks Johnny. Canopy?  You mean the kit canopy that's a bit thick and the wrong shape?  Or the yellowed Aeroclub vacform that I'm trying to UV back to clarity?

Nope, neither of them just yet.  I need to leave myself some fun for the end of the build don't i?

 

On 4/18/2021 at 2:57 AM, Hamden said:

Agreed!

 Stay safe          Roger

 

thanks Roger

 

On 4/18/2021 at 3:34 AM, giemme said:

Oh my, this is really a lot of work And extremely patience trying too....

I agree with the above, intakes looking just the biz now

Ciao 

 

Thanks Giorgio.  Intakes are looking a lot better. I'm certain they're still not correct, but streets ahead of what the kit provided

 

On 4/18/2021 at 3:47 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

That'll be me then. Thursday morning in Grantham. I'll try to remember to smile.

Looks like the intakes have it, and the tailplane has a thumbs down. At least the booms aren't too wonky.

(I once found a wooden box of NOS Vampire booms (made in Italy) in one of the scrap Aircraft yards on Riyadh base.

 

Have you thought that it may have been easier to defect to another Squadron & build their Aircraft?

How much sanding could there be on a Hunter?

 

Hunter?  yup, 28 flew them too so I have one of them coming up later, though Airfix have stifled my three attempts to buy one from them so far.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 4:54 AM, TheBaron said:

I love the brass undercarriage that you've made here Alan, to which some kind of plastic creature appears to have attached itself.

Ps. 'Classic Airframes' =  carcass filers aim....

 

It's a pre-Giger xenomorph, called a leg -hugger

 

On 4/18/2021 at 9:09 AM, Head in the clouds. said:

10 out of 10 for persistence and stamina, just when you think you have built the worst kit another pops up.

I think you have done a grand job on them there intakes, not an easy area to correct.

 

Thanks Hitc. I can't say it's been fun but I couldn't leave the kit the way it was.

 

Another fondling session was had at the weekend.  Since I now had the wings in place and knew there was yet more sanding on the horizon, there was no point in delaying things any longer and I opted to glue the rest of the plastics lumps in place in readiness for the marathon sanding sessions to come.

A lot easier written than done.

I remember having some issues with tail boom alignment on the Venom kit and the assembly sequence is identical for the Vampire so a plan of action was needed. 

It doesn't help that the cross section at the joint is different on the tail booms than it is on the wings. Nor does it help that the plug type insert on the tail boom doesn't fit into the mating cavity on the wing, and it goes without saying that none of the mating surfaces is flat and there's gaps here, there, and everywhere, but I'll say it anyway.

 

After coming up with several ideas and discarding each one in turn I arrived at the following (potential) solution. 

 

 

That's right... Clamp it! (okay, a bit tenuous maybe, but it's Monday morning after all)

 

Okay, clamping was the obvious way to go but how?  Well, in an enormous leap of faith I made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that CA designed the boom on the wing to be in alignment with the actual tail boom itself so I just needed a method/jig to force and hold that alignment.  My solution was to use some scrap brass C channel (or U channel depending upon which side of the oggin you live)

I had some C channel which was slightly narrower than the width of the boom - that meant that it sat on top of the boom and didn't contact the wing. I figured that the convex shape on the upper surface of the booms would (almost) self align within the C channel.

 

 

By clamping one end of the channel on the wing boom and the other end over the tail boom, my assumption was that is should pull everything into shape and align the booms by the top surface.  The channel should also hold the boom parallel with the fuselage, provided the boom on the wing was in the correct position, which was also assuming that I had glued the wings somewhere near the correct position and so on.  Tolerance stack-up anyone?

 

 

I was originally only going to do one to see how it turned out but in for a penny and all that...

 

 

I should have mentioned that during this process, I was not concerned with gluing the tailplane in the right orientation, just that it was in there as I wouldn't be able to fit it in later since I was using pins to locate it.  I have by now also moved the tailplane forward by 2 or 3 mm.

So far things look promising

 

 

Some time later...

Clamps off, and things seem to have worked.  I'm happy with the alignment at the top of the booms around the joint area.  There will be plenty sanding around the joints themselves to get both cross sections something close to similar, but overall, I'm happy with that. 

 

 

From the front looks decent also.   I'll take this as a win as I don't see it getting any better with a CA kit.

 

 

While I was waiting for the glue on the tail to cure I got bored so decided to ad some bling to the wing tanks.  The molding on the tanks was pretty poor so I punched some discs from aluminum tape, some 5 thou brass sheet, found some small disc thingies, and added a small drain tube at the rear of the tank.

I'm still not sure if I am going to use these or not. CA provide absolutely no indication of where they are supposed to fit on the wings - nothing on the wings themselves and nothing in the instructions other than a blurry arrow pointing vaguely in the direction of a wing

 

 

After I was certain the tail booms were fully set up it was time to position the tail surface. A relatively straightforward operation after the tail booms.

You can see in this shot that the leading edge of the tail surface is now forward of the vertical stabilizer and is much closer to the actual aircraft design now.

 

 

Still a long, long way to go but at least all my sanding will be on one object now instead of a bunch of them.

I'm not a huge fan of CA's panel crevice's so I may decide to fill them - just in case I'm looking for anything else to sand!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fritag]

I’ve got you well ahead on points now, Alan.  And it looks to me like you’ve softened it up over several rounds and are close to delivering the knockout blow.  Might risk a small wager on the outcome now.......

Edited April 19, 2021 by Fritag

[Pete in Lincs]

Even Marge, in the background there, seems impressed. I know I am. Nice C channel solution.

And, more importantly, the current configuration lends itself to zooming session around the basement.

 

Did someone say Hunters? Bring it on! Fifties lovelyness!

[Head in the clouds.]

Happy that you have had a bit of good fortune at last, thoroughly deserved.

Don't get to cock a hoop though, it's playing with you and you know it...:)

[giemme]

The airframe looks good to me, Alan  Smart solution for the booms gluing in

 

Also, I don't think I'll ever build a twin boomed jet or a CA kit....

 

 

Ciao 

[heloman1]

Alan, neat idea with the channel and clamps, got to have given the best alignment ever!

 

Colin

[Wlad]

Brilliant solution on the tail booms. It's looking like a Vampire!

 

Wlad

[Brandy]

I can almost hear it whimpering from here. It knows it's beaten now, and it's definitely looking like a Vampire!

 

Ian

[hendie]

On 4/19/2021 at 12:47 PM, Fritag said:

I’ve got you well ahead on points now, Alan.  And it looks to me like you’ve softened it up over several rounds and are close to delivering the knockout blow.  Might risk a small wager on the outcome now.......

 

Don't know about softened Steve... al dente possibly

 

On 4/19/2021 at 2:27 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Even Marge, in the background there, seems impressed. I know I am. Nice C channel solution.

And, more importantly, the current configuration lends itself to zooming session around the basement.

 

Did someone say Hunters? Bring it on! Fifties lovelyness!

 

I've been very careful not to zoom it straight into the nearest bucket/trash disposal/wall, despite the temptation Pete

 

On 4/19/2021 at 3:39 PM, Head in the clouds. said:

Happy that you have had a bit of good fortune at last, thoroughly deserved.

Don't get to cock a hoop though, it's playing with you and you know it...:)

 

no hoops cocked around here Hitc.  It was playing with me and got it's own back this week

 

On 4/19/2021 at 5:14 PM, giemme said:

The airframe looks good to me, Alan  Smart solution for the booms gluing in

 

Also, I don't think I'll ever build a twin boomed jet or a CA kit....

 

 

Ciao 

 

Aaawwwww Giorgio, where's your sense of adventure?

 

On 4/20/2021 at 2:50 AM, heloman1 said:

Alan, neat idea with the channel and clamps, got to have given the best alignment ever!

 

Colin

 

Certainly a better alignment than I managed on the Venom, though I'm pretty sure it's still not 100%

 

On 4/21/2021 at 11:51 PM, Wlad said:

Brilliant solution on the tail booms. It's looking like a Vampire!

 

Wlad

 

Thanks Wlad.  It's about as close to a Vampire as it's going to get I think

 

On 4/23/2021 at 8:17 AM, Brandy said:

I can almost hear it whimpering from here. It knows it's beaten now, and it's definitely looking like a Vampire!

 

Ian

 

That isn't the Vampire whimpering Ian.

 

Right then.  Quite a lot has managed to happen this week, bits getting glued on, bits getting shaped, and just for a change, a fair bit of sanding.

First job was one of those nice and easy jobs that I like... look at the model, look at reference photos, and play spot the difference. Then figure out what's missing in the kit and try to make it right.

Like these rather distinctive strengthening (?) panels just south of the intakes. Plastic card with the edges shaved at an angle.  CA did represent them, but only by a panel line, and they are quite hefty on the 1:1

 

 

I found this rather fascinating - the Wapiti and the Vampire are both 1/48 scale but look how large the Wapiti is in comparison, and that's without the wings on.  That took me by surprise

 

 

With the horizontal stabilizer fixed in place, I started shaping the back end. Port side completed in this shot, and stbd still to trim back (and add the actuator)

 

 

One of the downsides to all that sanding is that the gun bays have gotten a bit fragile and the edges around the gun ports have started breaking away.

Flightpath provide a set of panels which I had looked at previously and decided not to use - now I didn't really have any choice, so, off the fret they came.

One of the reasons I didn't care to use them is the usual PE conundrum... how do you get a flat metal panel to conform to a set of complex compound curves on a fuselage? 

Well we all know that answer... with extreme difficulty.

To make matters worse, for reasons unknown to moi, the panels have been etched on both sides.  Why would you etch the side that gets glued I don't know, but it certainly complicated matters.  I did the best I could, rolling some brass tube to induce curvature into the panel first along one axes, then along the other.  End result?  As you can see, the thin sections of the panel have "folded" more than they curved, especially around the fasteners.

 

 

You can see the problem better in this shot

 

 

It really doesn't help that the gun ports don't line up with those on the kit does it?

Yes, filing and scraping ensued once more.

 

 

Finally getting to a place where it looked like the two polar opposites fitted it was tie to stick 'em on.  Damn.  What to use?

I mulled this over for some time, knowing that the panel was not a snug fit and there was still some flex in there, I knew that cyano glue just wasn't up to the job.  I have some Gators thin, but again with all the gaps and wotnots, I wasn't confident in getting a good fix.  In the end I opted for E6000 which is has gap filling properties and dries clear, whilst retaining a modicum of flexibility.

Slap it on and tape it up!

 

 

The end result?  The panel is secure. Of that there's no doubt.  Another nice thing about the E6000, is that once it dries, you can take a sharp blade and slice around the panel to remove any squidgey out stuff with relative ease.  I've tried rolling those kinks in the panel but they are determined to stay.  Had the rear of the PE panel not been etched I think I could have got a reasonably good result here.  As it is, it's a bit meh!

 

 

Things were moving forward and there was imminent danger of primer being let loose once again. I thought I may as well start adding all the little bits I had been avoiding, such as the inlet vanes

 

 

Believe it or not, that was probable the best part of 45 minutes of work, and a gezsquillion vanes before I got something acceptable.  Still not perfect, but there's a limit to my patience with this kit now.

 

 

The next bit, to my never-ending shame, I was actually looking forward to. Flaps and stuff!

I had spent a ridiculous amount of time carving out the flaps and excavating the plastic many, many moons ago in order to try and get a decent fit.  Someone (can't remember who off-hand, mentioned earlier in this thread that the flaps "just don't fit").  I should have heeded that warning.

The first shot across the bows was the fact that width-wise the flap would no longer drop in.  Okay, simple enough remedy - more scraping and filing required.

That was taking forever so I started the same work on the outboard flap.  I spent maybe an hour to an hour and a half scraping, filing, test fitting and so on and almost got it to a decent place.  Excavating the upper wing surface was a real nightmare as this plastic is so damn hard.

Then moving back to the inboard flap... 

 

 

This was where it all went south.  So south in fact that I forgot to take any decent photos, so apologies are in order as this is the best shot I have.

You can see here that the outboard flap is a decent fit and with a bit of grunting could be made to sit flush with the wing surface.

The inboard flap however..... Note how much of the vertical panel is still above the wing.    THAT is how much plastic I would have to excavate from the upper wing surface for that flap to sit where it was supposed to sit.

 

 

Nope!  Not gonna happen. It just ain't.  Life is too short.

 

Well that was a real kick in the wotsits wasn't it?  I had pretty much destroyed the kit parts taking them out.  I tried fitting them back but there was so much patchwork to be done I gave up.  Then I had the bright idea of just using the outer surfaces of the PE parts and laying them in place instead of plastic.  That was also a no-go.  The inboard flap is etched on the inside and when I tried to get it to fit against the large wing fillet, it just folded.

Now this may be a bit of a cop out, and I don't deny it.  In the end I packed the voids with scrap plastic and used aluminum plumbers tape to "restore" the flaps.

 

 

I also added a few greeblies from styrene as for some reason, Flightpath provided the forward hardpoints for the wings, but not the aft hardpoints.

 

Now the job I really wasn't looking forward to - the wing tanks.  CA provide absolutely no information whatsoever about where the tanks are to be fitted.  There's no indication on the wings and the instructions merely have an arrow pointing from the wing tank to the general direction of the wing, nothing more.

A good couple of hours was spent searching for a good head on shot of a Vampire fitted with wing tanks. Nope.  Couldn't find one.  I did find one from the underside but it was a different Mk and the tanks were different, but the hardpoints are going to be in the same place so at least I could use it as a guide.

My best shot...

 

 

Once again a relatively simple task took a few hours.  Trying to get the contour of the pylons to match the wings was a real palaver.

Seems about right...  (well, they're well and truly stuck now so they are not moving)

 

 

The undercarriage doors could have stopped a nuclear blast they were that thick.  I spent another good hour trying to scrape around the edge to thin them and make it look like there was a small section of skin overhanging as per the 1:1.  

That wasn't going so well, then I realized it would be a whole lot simpler just to sand the things and then add detail back.  Here's a before and after

 

 

Detail was restored by using a thicker styrene sheet and just tracing around the door, then cutting out what I didn't need

 

 

Like so.  This was the first primer on those so I can see there's still a bit of work required to tidy them up.  There is a set of PE parts for the outer door, but they were so two dimensional that I chose to stick with the kit parts.

 

 

Just in case anyone is ever foolish enough to try and attempt this kit in future and thinks the PE set will make life easier...  Here are all the PE parts that I either cannot use, or chose not to use.  For the most parts it was because they just don't fit

 

 

I also spent a fair amount of time this week filling in CA's panel lines and sanding everything flush again.  The 1:1  is very smooth and there are really only a few panel lines visible, and CA's panel lines are a bit trench like. I felt it was a better option to sand them all back.

 

Then it was primer time!

Topside

 

 

Then a dead one...

 

 

The seams on the booms turned out better than expected with just a smidgen of rework required.  I'm sort of wishing I hadn't used that PE panel on top of the wing now - I'm sure it scales out to a good inch or so high.

 

 

Pinholes in the seams are going to be problematic, but overall, thangs don't appear too bad

 

 

I'm not sure I would even attempt to fill the seams at the pylon/wing interface as I'd probably do more damage than good.

 

 

The intakes have turned out to be quite decent

 

 

But those gun bay panels are if I'm being honest, a bit of a monstrosity.  I just don't think they will be able to be cleaned up any better

 

 

Obviously based on these shots, there's a lot of micromeshing in my future to bring that airframe up to a condition acceptable for a top coat. (I wonder if I could start another build in the meantime as a diversion?)

 

All that remains for this weeks episode is to answer the question that's been on everyone's mind since day one... will it be a tail sitter?

 

Guess what... No!  That tail is unsupported and well and truly clear of the cutting mat.

 

 

I blue tac'd the legs in place to confirm that she will, at the end of the day, sit on three legs

 

 

and that's yer lot I'm afraid. 

 

'scuse me while I stock up on some more sandpaper and micromesh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

And the moral of the story is, CA + PE = GR1EF. Steer well clear of this formula for a happy life.

 

Pretty in primer though, Alan.

Nice solution for the flaps. Handpump in the engine bay, as I said.

Not a tail sitter. Another result. Tanks and vanes look good too.

Will a thin skim of filler blend in the gunbay panels? 

Have a good one, Pete

[Brandy]

Excellent job here on a real beast of a kit Alan. A thin skin of PPP over the gun panels and pylon joints maybe? Wipe it off with a wet cotton bud or similar so no more sanding damage.

As to the "tail sitter" - you haven't got the rudders on yet.....

 

Just sayin'

 

 

Ian

[RichieW]

Slowly the monster is getting tamed. I've taken notes on the use of aluminium tape. That was a great solution, hopefully it can solve problems for me too. Is it possible to use a rivet wheel on it? 

 

Note to self, stick to Tamiya kits! 😂

[AdrianMF]

Have to say it looks very nice! It has been a bit of an epic but you wouldn’t know from looking at it. Shame you didn’t get a photo next to an alarmingly large heap of greyish sanding dust and discarded kit parts.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[giemme]

1 hour ago, RichieW said:

Note to self, stick to Tamiya kits! 😂

Amen....

 

Epic progress, Alan  

The intakes look spot on, and the overall is looking pretty under a primer coat

 

One more vote for PPP to fill the small seams and pinholes.

 

Ciao 

[hendie]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:21 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

And the moral of the story is, CA + PE = GR1EF. Steer well clear of this formula for a happy life.

 

 

On 4/25/2021 at 2:42 AM, Brandy said:

Excellent job here on a real beast of a kit Alan. A thin skin of PPP over the gun panels and pylon joints maybe? Wipe it off with a wet cotton bud or similar so no more sanding damage.

As to the "tail sitter" - you haven't got the rudders on yet.....

 

Just sayin'

 

 

Ian

 

I thought of that Ian - using specially trained plastic worms, I've hollowed out the rudders and then added the worm droppings (took ages for those little blighters to unload) back at the front end

 

On 4/25/2021 at 6:52 AM, RichieW said:

Slowly the monster is getting tamed. I've taken notes on the use of aluminium tape. That was a great solution, hopefully it can solve problems for me too. Is it possible to use a rivet wheel on it? 

 

Note to self, stick to Tamiya kits! 😂

 

Never underestimate the usefulness of aluminum tape. (see later in this adventure)

 

On 4/25/2021 at 8:01 AM, AdrianMF said:

Have to say it looks very nice! It has been a bit of an epic but you wouldn’t know from looking at it. Shame you didn’t get a photo next to an alarmingly large heap of greyish sanding dust and discarded kit parts.

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

 

Thanks Adrian.  This was the scene outside my basement earlier this week

 

 

On 4/25/2021 at 8:15 AM, giemme said:

Amen....

 

Epic progress, Alan  

The intakes look spot on, and the overall is looking pretty under a primer coat

 

One more vote for PPP to fill the small seams and pinholes.

 

Ciao 

 

Sadly PPP is not in my arsenal Giorgio, and the Scots in me precludes me from spending nearly $20 on something I need for this one job and will probably dry out before I have to use it again

 

 

Slowly... losing... the... will... to... live...   

 

Take one CA airframe, take one CA windscreen, add in a CA canopy... It's not gonna work is it? 

 

 

They (CA) must have tried really really hard to make this much of a mess of what should be straightforward parts. Even the height of the windscreen and the height of the canopy where they are supposed to meet/close is different.  I won't mention all the gaps... oops!  Though I will mention that the canopy won't even sit flush on the fuselage as it bottoms out on whatever it is that's on the shelf behind the cockpit.

 

Not really much option here but to dig the PE out of the bin and try again.  The set does include framing for the kit windscreen - obviously a different size than the kit windscreen, but it's a frame.

 

 

To quote Mr. Fritag - "paint it black" on t'inside, then cut individual panels from some clear polystyrene sheet left over from the Pegasus windows.

 

 

Now, fill in some gaps

 

 

test fit the Frankenssembly and find that doesn't fit either (why did I think it might?)

 

 

Then spend some time chiseling, sanding, filing bits off the front end until it sortof fits. I find the sortof method works well with CA kits. A necessity rather.  Nothing actually fits as we mere mortals understand the term fit, therefore the sortof method comes in handy in many occasions where CA parts need to be in proximity to each other

 

 

Slap on some Mr Dissolved Putty

 

 

Then remember to test fit.

... and find that the canopy is wider than the airframe on which it is supposed to sit.  That'll be a No then.

 

 

Of course, that was after I had spent time decorating the canopy to an almost LL Bowen level with added bling.

To be fair, there was actually a PE panel included for the reinforcement place at the rear of the canopy. Would it surprise you to learn that it didn't fit?

So, out came the aluminum tape, followed by some 3d rivets I had lying around

 

 

I think the technical term is bucketful of 

 

 

The outcome of this sad tale is that the windscreen was pulled off and reset with the aft edges a bit further apart, and I started work on the Aeroclub canopy to see if I can make it look not quite as bad as the Drastic Airframes kit part.

 

to be continued...

 

 

 

 

 

[Wlad]

Hi Hendie,

 

You need a miniature English wheel to curve those gun bay panels to shape... This build is getting more scary with each step. Just when you think you conquered a problem, another one raises its ugly head. You're doing great so far. 

 

Cheers,

Wlad

[Fritag]

5 hours ago, hendie said:

to be continued...

 

That’s the spirit!

 

I reckon the best you can hope for Alan, is that this build is an example of Type 2 fun.  If it is, then at least you’ve got a lot of pleasure to look forward to 

 

It’s also a cracking read for the rest of us and a great showcase of modelling skill.  Is that any consolation?

 

 

[Head in the clouds.]

7 hours ago, hendie said:

To be fair, there was actually a PE panel included for the reinforcement place at the rear of the canopy. Would it surprise you to learn that it didn't fit?

Is that the fault of CA or the company who made the PE to fit the CA kit? Seems to me you are fighting on two fronts here and that as we all know is a no-no.

 

7 hours ago, hendie said:

I find the sortof method works well with CA kits

A thought with your words in mind, why not just launch the un-built kit into air and glue it on the way down back to earth, it could not be any worse for you....

 

You have the patience of a saint, I don't mind a challenge but this is brutal.

[giemme]

Oh boy....

What if you leave the canopy open? Is the mismatch that noticeable?

 

Ciao

[perdu]

Blimey Alan, it is only a canopy.

 

Are you seriously dedicated to using crap pieces made by morons when you could be working with pieces that fit, no, suit each other made by a craftsman.

 

Time to make the things yourself, you are letting the less than mediocre take centre/center stage.

 

Says Bill from the land of unchanging landscape where the air doesn't violently redefine the land ever so often.

 

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

9 hours ago, hendie said:

This was the scene outside my basement earlier this week

That's one powerful extractor fan you have there Alan!

[RichieW]

Looks like no single part of this kit wants to co-operate! Aluminium tape looks like a powerful ally, I had better get some for the bitter struggle I have ahead of me.