Hawker Hurricanes around the world

[ModelingEdmontonian]

27 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

except for late aircraft, (and a few very very early) only the rear bulkhead and upper cockpit walls are grey-green,  the internal frame work, lower side walls and pretty much everything else is aluminium paint, including wheel wells, 'late' Hurricane wheel wells are the underside colour.

Late in your case will be the Iranian and Argentinian. 

Thanks, Troy. I knew some of this but missed the distinction between upper and lower cockpit walls. I assume my post-war Egyptian Mk IIc would be "late" as well? 

What about seats, in most photos I've seen they look aluminum, but did they get grey-green eventually?

[ModelingEdmontonian]

So, the challenges with the AZ kits are such that I've paused my Polish build and switched to an Airfix rag wing kit that I will use for a Belgian Mk I (decals from Print Scale), which will now be the European representative of phase one of my "Hawker Hurricanes around the World" project.  This WIP thread includes the same AZ kit, and Heather's use of spare parts made me think if I delay, I may end up with some spares from other kits that can make my version easier/better to build.

Meanwhile, a little progress here and there, and the Argentine Mk IV (which is also an AZ kit) is coming along, albeit with lots of sanding and filling, etc., and still more to go, especially at the wing roots.

 

 

And, I received another package of kits, so my collection has grown!  I was able to buy a couple of these locally, but mostly they're from abroad--so far I've ordered from Japan, the UK, Poland, Latvia, USA, Ukraine, and Belgium.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[GrzeM]

4 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

So, the challenges with the AZ kits are such that I've paused my Polish build

Well. Polish Hurricanes (those ordered in 1939 and loaded on the ship sailing to Poland) were most probably ragwings (only one "demonstration" metal wing Hurricane was ever discussed by Polish-British authorities, but I don't know if it was finally sent). Propeller - three-bladed V.P.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

30 minutes ago, GrzeM said:

Well. Polish Hurricanes (those ordered in 1939 and loaded on the ship sailing to Poland) were most probably ragwings (only one "demonstration" metal wing Hurricane was ever discussed by Polish-British authorities, but I don't know if it was finally sent). Propeller - three-bladed V.P.

Yes, it will be fabric winged, but I didn't realize it would have had three-blade prop already, I was assuming two-blade Watts, like the Belgian. 

[busnproplinerfan]

Stormy weather on your shelf front with all those Hurricanes.

[GrzeM]

8 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Yes, it will be fabric winged, but I didn't realize it would have had three-blade prop already, I was assuming two-blade Watts, like the Belgian. 

The three-blade V.P. propeller is confirmed with shipment documents.

Source: Wojciech Mazur, "Samoloty, które nie zdążyły 2" from the Wielki Leksykon Uzbrojenia 1939 series. Wojciech Mazur has researched the Battle, Hurricane and Spitfire shipment to Poland in August/September 1939 very deeply.

[Troy Smith]

18 hours ago, GrzeM said:

Propeller - three-bladed V.P.

 

17 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

but I didn't realize it would have had three-blade prop already, I was assuming two-blade Watts, like the Belgian.

 

9 hours ago, GrzeM said:

The three-blade V.P. propeller is confirmed with shipment documents.

Source: Wojciech Mazur, "Samoloty, które nie zdążyły 2" from the Wielki Leksykon Uzbrojenia 1939 series. Wojciech Mazur has researched the Battle, Hurricane and Spitfire shipment to Poland in August/September 1939 very deeply.

Any detail of WHICH propeller?   Note, from other export Hurricanes with VP props, which were the Finnish and Romanian,  they had the De Havilland Spitfire type fitted.

Anyway, always good to get a new bit of Hurricane information.

On 06/04/2021 at 15:45, ModelingEdmontonian said:

What about seats, in most photos I've seen they look aluminum, but did they get grey-green eventually?

'it varies'   A seat is not too hard to change,  production line shots, like this from a late batch

 

from what can bee seen. looks same tone as interior, so grey green

 

HurriKZ295tropproductionline by losethekibble, on Flickr

hard to make out

 

this painting appears to show aluminium, see the 2nd Hurricane

 

by Elsie Dalton Hewland,  her other works showing planes,  Hurricane testing, and Typhoons, should be noted for their near photographic attention to detail and accuracy, colour included, they are in the link below,  as well as comparison with an actual assembly line show. (note masking on canopies for example) 

https://artuk.org/discover/artists/hewland-elsie-dalton-19011979

 

HTH

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Moving forward, a bit more "mass" painting... some rattle can black...

 

 

... and some hairy brush gunmetal on the exhausts and interior of radiators, etc.

 

 

The pieces are always organized in the same pattern so I keep the models straight.

 

Meanwhile, one-by-one, the main parts are going together--here we have Argentina (Mk IV), Iran (Mk IIc), Egypt (Mk IIc), and US (Mk XII).

 

 

In an unexpected development, my lovely wife decided she wanted in on the Hurricane action, so asked if she could start a kit.  It'll be her first model, so I avoided the AZ and Arma kits (honestly the Arma kits are annoying me so far--almost too good if that possibly makes any sense). I figured the Revell Mk IIc might be the best bet for a beginner so she got going on that cockpit last night.  This means we now have seven 'canes underway in our household!

[2996 Victor]

Great progress there, ME!

I know what you mean about the Arma kits, but trust me, they're worth the effort. The Mk.IIc is slightly less fiddly in the cockpit area than the Mk.I btw.

And what's your secret to encouraging your wife to do a build? My better half smiles indulgently at my efforts and makes positive comments, but that's as far as it goes

Cheers,

Mark

[ModelingEdmontonian]

6 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Great progress there, ME!

I know what you mean about the Arma kits, but trust me, they're worth the effort. The Mk.IIc is slightly less fiddly in the cockpit area than the Mk.I btw.

And what's your secret to encouraging your wife to do a build? My better half smiles indulgently at my efforts and makes positive comments, but that's as far as it goes

Cheers,

Mark

I'm struggling with both Arma cockpit areas, to be honest, although I do feel I'll have a bit of a better idea on how to approach them on the next kits, and I keep having to tell myself as long as the cockpit has an IP and a seat I don't want to be worrying about it... I'd like to have some of this collection with open canopies, but ultimately I don't want to bog down in cockpit interiors. That said, I also need the fuselage to go together and the Arma Mk I isn't together yet--might end up hacking up some of the tubing to make it all work. The Mk IIc is together and I'm happy with it, so I'm sure I'll figure the Mk I out too.

 

In fact it took no persuasion at all--I was shocked. I explained my "Hawker Hurricanes around the world" project to her the other night and she seemed intrigued... next thing I know two nights later she's looking at my stack of kits and says, "can I build one?" To be honest, I somewhat doubt she'll take it all the way, but you never know! Basically a dream date night for me though to have her across the table modeling with me (although frankly since I started the hobby a year ago, I wasn't even getting many indulgent half-smiles or positive comments, so maybe take what you can get  )

[2996 Victor]

The Arma interior framework is a bit fiddly and I think the instructions may be a little confusing, but you'll get there.

If you want a good guide, I can do no better than suggest you read @CedB's magnum opus here (and if you've got time to waste, my own feeble efforts can be found through the link in my signature!).

Ced also built the Airfix Mk.I alongside, so you should find some valuable info on that kit as well.

Looking forward to seeing your next instalment!

Cheers,

Mark

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Arma Mk. I went together--embarrassed to admit how much cockpit ended up hacked/sanded away to make it work, so I won't photograph that... Hopefully future Arma kits go together a bit better than these two. In essence I think it comes down to ensuring all parts are properly sanded, positioned, etc. since as soon as one part is badly placed, the impacts cascade. Anyway, I have at least another five Arma kits to build still so lots of chances to get this right.

 

So, we are now at five little Hurricanes with wings and fuselages together...

 

 

I intend to model the Mk I ragwing with wheels up since it's one of the few kits I have that readily allows me to do that--Airfix provides retracted UC parts that should make it all easy.  Even better, wheels up means I get around the issue of Airfix providing the inaccurate 4-spoke wheels! I have a set of stands on the way which I will use to mount this on, but I'm waiting for them to get here so that I can measure the hole I'll need to cut out. For now, then, Belgium is going to lag a little bit. Still, the dry fit suggests it will all go together nicely.

 

[GrzeM]

On 4/9/2021 at 6:39 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

Any detail of WHICH propeller?   Note, from other export Hurricanes with VP props, which were the Finnish and Romanian,  they had the De Havilland Spitfire type fitted.

 

To be honest, the cargo list included three separate positions: 7 "three bladed V.P. propellers" for Battles, 14 "three bladed V.P. propellers" for Hurricanes and 1 "three bladed V.P. propeller" for Spitfire. This may suggest that the propellers were of different kind, otherwise these could have been just described "15 propellers for fighters" (shipment included 14 Hurricanes, one Spitfire and 7 Battles).

 

The S/s Lassell sailed with this cargo on 22th August 1939 to Polish Gdynia and soon, still before the war, turned back and redirected to Gibraltar (Baltic became considered unsafe) with intention to reach Romanian port on the Black Sea so the planes could reach Poland by train from there. After three-weeks long adventurous journey the ship reached Istanbul and after Soviet agression against Poland on 17th September 1939 and decision to evacuate Polish Airforce to the West these airplanes have been finally sold to Turkey.

 

I suppose that Romanian and Finnish Hurricanes with Spitfire propellers are much later period shipments (1940).

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Some progress, but mostly filling and sanding and such, so not much to post, although hoping to get to some camo painting soon. Meanwhile received my Luftwaffe decals in the mail today. Unsure to what extend this captured Mk I is documented, but the camo scheme as suggested should be interesting--yellow underside!?

 

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

interesting--yellow underside!?

Not sure in this case,  but this was standard for captured types in Germany,  and in Britain as well.  I have seen pictures DF+CG online, I'll have a look later

 

 

PS this is the image I was thinking of

 

Hawker Hurricane_03_Jagdfliegerschule 2 Zerbst Lehrgang J 2-7 1942

which is not the same

I found this profile

 

and had a look on the now archive only Luftwaffe Experten Message Board (as I was a member)

"Hawker Hurricane MK I German code: DF+SC Used at Rechlin Magdeburg during 1942. It is falsely reported as DF+GC. After use at Rechlin it went to Ausb.Gr.102 (JFS 2)."

 

Sorry, but given the poor rendition of BM959/White 60, it looks to have the same Slogan on both sides, and BM959 had a different slogan on each side, and yellow is unlikely,  these are another example of decals made off profiles, rathe tnan photos....

 

this maybe of interest though.

https://www.destinationsjourney.com/historical-military-photographs/captured-hawker-hurricane-fighters/

 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Not sure in this case,  but this was standard for captured types in Germany,  and in Britain as well.  I have seen pictures DF+CG online, I'll have a look later

 

PS this is the image I was thinking of

 

Hawker Hurricane_03_Jagdfliegerschule 2 Zerbst Lehrgang J 2-7 1942

which is not the same

I found this profile

 

and had a look on the now archive only Luftwaffe Experten Message Board (as I was a member)

"Hawker Hurricane MK I German code: DF+SC Used at Rechlin Magdeburg during 1942. It is falsely reported as DF+GC. After use at Rechlin it went to Ausb.Gr.102 (JFS 2)."

 

Sorry, but given the poor rendition of BM959/White 60, it looks to have the same Slogan on both sides, and BM959 had a different slogan on each side, and yellow is unlikely,  these are another example of decals made off profiles, rathe tnan photos....

 

this maybe of interest though.

https://www.destinationsjourney.com/historical-military-photographs/captured-hawker-hurricane-fighters/

 

Amazing! Such great research and so fast, Troy! That link to the captured Hurricanes photos is awesome. Clearly that Luftwaffe profile is what these decals are based on; given that photo, not sure how you mess up the "G' vs. "S." Ugh. How tough would it be to cut up a "G" and turn it into an "S"? 🤔 

 

Would you guess the DF+SC underside is yellow, Troy, or does Kora have it better? https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kora-models-dec72188-hawker-hurricane-mki--211690

[ModelingEdmontonian]

A "pile" of Hurricanes (Iran, Egypt, Australia, US, and Belgian wings and other bits) were in the backyard yesterday getting some aluminum sprayed.

 

 

State of play tonight below, starting from top ("noon") and working clockwise:

1. Belgium (Airfix Mk I) is still paused (waiting for stand to arrive to cut out mounting slit), but fuselage dry fitted to wings here;
2. Iran (Arma Mk IIc) is moving along nicely and ready for desert scheme (dark earth/middle stone/azure blue) to be brushed on;
3. Egypt (AZ Mk IIc) has uglier wing roots than its Arma sister, but I think I've fixed that as much as I want to, which means it will get the desert scheme at the same time as Iran;
4. Australia (Arma Mk I) will be all aluminum, so just waiting for one more spray on top I think and she'll be pretty close to ready for decals, prop, wheels, etc.;
5. Poland (AZ Mk I) has caught back up, thanks to some spare parts raided from other kits--she's taken a LOT of work today (that resin wheel well is insane), but actually I'm fairly pleased with the shape she is in now fresh out of the "shower";
6. US (Airfix Mk XII) received a first coat of sky on the underside; and
7. Argentina (AZ Mk IV) has its light grey underside done (sprayed with Tamiya AS-16) and is ready for its top camo (apparently dark green/olive/ocean grey).

[ModelingEdmontonian]

With the exception of Belgium which is making another dry-fit appearance in the noon position, undersides are painted; working clockwise after Belgium we have:

 

1. Argentina (AZ Mk IV) with light grey underside done (sprayed with Tamiya AS-16), still waiting for its top camo (apparently dark green/olive/ocean grey).
2. US (Airfix Mk XII) with sky; 
3. Poland (AZ Mk I) actually shaping up very nicely and looking good with an aluminum coat brushed on overtop of the Tamiya spray;
4. Iran (Arma Mk IIc) with azure blue;
5. Egypt (AZ Mk IIc) with azure blue; and
6. Australia (Arma Mk I) all aluminum (I had to brush over some of the sprayed spots where it needed a thicker layer to cover up some work, but she's ready for decaling once dry).

 

 

Meanwhile, some work on the props and spinners has also progressed. On Iran's  (top left) I'm trying out the Arma decals on the tips and not a fan at this point, but we'll see how they settle in. I do hate painting prop tips.  Beside Iran we have the white spinner for Egypt (always needing a lot of coats for white, is that normal?), then clockwise: US (red); Argentina (sky); Egypt's prop (needed a LOT of sanding to fit in the spinner); Australia's spinner (red) and loose blades; and Poland (black).  Belgium's two-blade is painted too but not on display--no yellow tips on the Beglian Watts, as far as I can tell!

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Australia is getting there, wheels and exhausts on and prop dry fit...

 

 

I found assembling the seven-piece propeller to be a nightmare. Much like the cockpit I had to hack it down inside to fit, and even then it doesn't come together flush. I'll admit this might be user error, so we'll see if I can improve on that on the next Arma Mk. I.

 

 

All the decals on now--really enjoyed working with these, and I am especially impressed by the stencils. I did tear one of the wing roundels slightly and might have to touch it up with a sliver of a spare--we'll see once it's set. Otherwise they all went on perfectly.

 

 

I probably won't be doing any weathering on this as it's post-war and looks clean in the photos I've seen (even at the end of her life she appears to have no exhaust staining: http://armahobbynews.pl/wp-content/uploads/raaf-hurri-TOToole-Photo-1.jpg).

 

Usually I would use a flat clear coat at this stage, but I'm hoping that doesn't take away too much of the aluminum shine. I've never used a "satin" finish, but I'm wondering if that is more appropriate; I'll have to see how I like it after I spray the matt.

[2996 Victor]

Oz is looking very smart in the overall aluminium finish, and the markings have gone down very nicely.

 

I'd say, as someone who hasn't yet tried it, that a satin finish might be a good option, not shiny but just a slight sheen.

 

The Arma Mk.I airscrew is a bit of a fiddle, but it goes together nicely in the end as you've shown.

 

Great progress, ME, and looking forward to seeing the next instalment.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 3/16/2021 at 1:45 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

Troy, I'm enjoying the Airfix ragwing kit so much that I'm wondering if I should attempt Romanian 13 or 14. Do you happen to have access to photos or profiles of either of those? I'm wondering if I can piece together my Printscale and Arma decals to make it work.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:22 PM, GrzeM said:

To be honest, the cargo list included three separate positions: 7 "three bladed V.P. propellers" for Battles, 14 "three bladed V.P. propellers" for Hurricanes and 1 "three bladed V.P. propeller" for Spitfire. This may suggest that the propellers were of different kind, otherwise these could have been just described "15 propellers for fighters" (shipment included 14 Hurricanes, one Spitfire and 7 Battles).

 

The S/s Lassell sailed with this cargo on 22th August 1939 to Polish Gdynia and soon, still before the war, turned back and redirected to Gibraltar (Baltic became considered unsafe) with intention to reach Romanian port on the Black Sea so the planes could reach Poland by train from there. After three-weeks long adventurous journey the ship reached Istanbul and after Soviet agression against Poland on 17th September 1939 and decision to evacuate Polish Airforce to the West these airplanes have been finally sold to Turkey.

 

I suppose that Romanian and Finnish Hurricanes with Spitfire propellers are much later period shipments (1940).

Troy and GrzeM, any doubt the Polish Hurricanes would have had 5 spoke wheels?

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Well, I hope I can improve in a few ways on future Arma kits, but Australia is done!

 

[2996 Victor]

1 hour ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Well, I hope I can improve in a few ways on future Arma kits, but Australia is done!

 

Hi ME,

 

I'd say that Oz looks pretty darned good! I think that's a great result and you should be very pleased indeed with the outcome!

 

Looking forward to the next one!

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Troy Smith]

On 30/04/2021 at 03:08, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I'm enjoying the Airfix ragwing kit so much that I'm wondering if I should attempt Romanian 13 or 14. Do you happen to have access to photos or profiles of either of those?

They maybe in the Romanian Fighter Colours book,  mine is a bit inaccessible right now.   There maybe something in the Hurricane in Romanian service book as well, and possibly, Hawker - the Yugoslav Story,  but those are elsewhere.    

the Radub decals have 15 on them

https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/shop/rb-d-72-022-romanian-hurricane-mk-1-decals/

IIRC 13 and 14 are the same or very similar,  you found the page on Yugoslav Hurricane, which has details of the camo pattern and colours I think (I got a notification about it) 

Give me a few days and i can dig out the books and give a better answer.

 

PS looking more closely at the sheet,  it has 14 but in a very different scheme.   I can't remember the details,  but these are well researched AFAIK.