Hawker Hurricanes around the world

[ModelingEdmontonian]

16 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

"I'm going to point out some facts about real-life paint manufacture and either the reader will understand and "get it" or will not understand and are in no position to contradict me.

 

1) Usually camouflage colours are fairly low saturation colours because these blend in better with nature. They're seldom bright and bold. Low saturation colours are normally manufactured by adding coloured pigments to a base made from inexpensive white or white and black pigments.

 

2) Colour pigments are expensive. The expense varies depending on the specific pigment, but they're expensive.

 

3) The only way to over-saturate a colour so much is to substantially over-dose your base with the expensive colour pigments. I'm not talking about a few percent more or less - that causes minor differences which you only confirm the presence of with one swatch adjacent to another - I'm talking more in the order of a double dose to get something you obviously look at and think "woah".

 

4) In the case of colours like dark olive, these are mostly white, black and ochre (which is relatively inexpensive for a colour pigment) sometimes further tinted with a bit of red or green (which are often very expensive).

 

5) There can certainly be variances in a manufactured paint, but these tend to be greatly overstated, i.e. used as a ready made excuse for all sorts of mistakes. Ultimately, the only way a manufactured paint can end up so oversaturated is to have dumped in a vast amount of the expensive pigments, if not adding in new additional pigments in large quantities not expected in the recipe. Frankly, it's difficult to see how any manufactured paint could end up so drastically off target, particularly in the over-saturated sense, by any business that wasn't actively trying to bankrupt itself by roasting through obscene quantities of pigments like chrome green which were already expensive at the start of the war and in particularly short supply during.

 

6) I'd venture that most of the "there was a war on, you know" type apologists for such spectacular errors probably don't have any actual experience of what is and isn't possible when mixing different proportions of 2,3 or 4 pigments when 2 of those are usually black and white just to make your base to tint. You simply cannot end up with a Humbrol 30-esque bluish green using only the ingredients to make olive - i.e. you'd actually have to sabotage it by introducing if not blue then an obviously bluish green. Same goes for that bright green Spitfire above - you can't achieve that with black, white, ochre and a touch of red - you'd need to fire in a lot of bright green pigment in to get that saturated on an overly-light base. It would be more tan-like just using the basic olive green ingredients which only turns obviously olive when tinted enough with black. Put another way, with a fixed number of pigments in various ratios you WILL end up somewhere within a certain envelope, and usually when colours like this bright green are discussed it's because it's well outside that envelope.

 

The point of all the above? In essence it's harder to make a credible explanation for how such a colour might have been arrived at in a real-life paint manufacturing environment than it is to demonstrate that someone would have had to go to a lot of trouble to get it so far wrong. That is harder to rationalise than just getting it closer to correct."

 

Wow, fascinating indeed!

 

16 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Sorry, but of a ramble,  hope of interest/use.  

Don't apologize, very enlightening!

 

On 2/21/2022 at 2:14 PM, dogsbody said:

If/when I start another kit, I'm going to try some AK Real Color paint. 

 

If you want to try that stuff out, they carry it at Great Hobbies, on 75th Street, just north of the Whitemud.

That's where I went for my Mission Models paint... may well try AK Real Color next I suppose (haven't ever noticed that shelf, actually)! Although I am so happy with the quality of the Mission Models that I'm hoping the colour grows on me!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I've now caught up: Republic of Yugoslavia (AZ Mk IV) has it's RFI photos posted.

 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Less chances to model lately, unfortunately, so just a minor update here. A little work on camo for Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb), Portugal (Arma Mk IIc), and India (Smer Mk IIc), but nothing to photograph. Turkey's (Mistercraft Mk IIc) camo is done or at least very, very close to done (every time I look there's another place to touch up!), so I tucked some Kristal Klear on the top portion of the single landing light to even it out with the wing, then painted the cannons...

 

 

...and rear wheel. This was less difficult to paint already on the fuselage than I feared it would be.

 

 

That's all... maybe will find some more time to work on these on the weekend (I hope!).

[opus999]

FWIW, I don't have access to references like MAP chips and the like, so this is purely subjective, but I found Hataka's Orange Line Dark Earth and Dark Green to be pretty close matches to what I've seen in photos.  They compare favorably to the photos that were posted by Troy.  This may not help you since you brush paint and these are lacquers.  I have brush painted them without any difficulties, but only on small areas (< square inch), so trying to do a whole aircraft could be problematic.  If you're interested I used them on https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077422-spitfire-mk-viii-hasegawa-172/ and https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235064263-p-40n-hasegawa-172/ although the usual caveats about camera color balance and monitors apply.  As it is, the pictures look slightly different than what I see with the naked eye, so maybe you'll just have to take my word for it!  

 

I like the all gray Yugoslav Hurricane.  It's different!  Turkey is coming along nicely too.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:27 AM, opus999 said:

I found Hataka's Orange Line Dark Earth and Dark Green to be pretty close matches to what I've seen in photos.  They compare favorably to the photos that were posted by Troy.  This may not help you since you brush paint and these are lacquers.  I have brush painted them without any difficulties, but only on small areas (< square inch), so trying to do a whole aircraft could be problematic.  If you're interested I used them on https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077422-spitfire-mk-viii-hasegawa-172/ and https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235064263-p-40n-hasegawa-172/ although the usual caveats about camera color balance and monitors apply.  As it is, the pictures look slightly different than what I see with the naked eye, so maybe you'll just have to take my word for it!  

That Dark Earth looks good to me, thanks for sharing! Unfortunately I don't think the Hataka line is available in my local shops, and I haven't had much success ordering paints... 

 

Weekend didn't result in as much progress as I would have liked, but I was able to Pledge Turkey and get a few decals on, including the significant/colourful port-side rudder decal. 

 

 

The Kits World decals look good at first (the star/moon actually matches Turkey's flag pretty closely), but in fact it's quite a bit different than the original (below). This will not be something I attempt fixing!

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Hmm... as I look at the photo, above and below...

 

 

...I realize my assumption that the spinner was black may be incorrect and perhaps it is red (which is what Kits World thinks)?

 

[Graham Boak]

Red spinners were a compulsory recognition feature for Allied fighters in North Africa.  I doubt that anyone would have bothered to repaint it for transfer to Turkey.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Red spinners were a compulsory recognition feature for Allied fighters in North Africa.  I doubt that anyone would have bothered to repaint it for transfer to Turkey.

Thanks, Graham. I'm leaning towards changing to red; anyway, I always look for excuses to incorporate more colour!

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Great builds and I really appreciate the discussion on the color choice assessments—I may have to get into Arma Hurricanes best, Erwin 

[opus999]

7 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I was able to Pledge Turkey

That doesn't quite sound right... Is that like crying foul?   

 

Could make a great band name though!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Few more decals on... not really worth an update, but I'm liking the look so I'm sharing... I still have to do the other side of the rudder, but needed to do some fixing of the port side before I move starboard.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Decal on the starboard side of the rudder now and used some red paint to touch it up on the trailing edge, and also began repainting the spinner red. Still annoyed by the Dark Earth texture, but otherwise I'm feeling like Turkey is going to be a handsome bird!  I would not have guessed looking at the sprues that the Heller/Smer/Mistercraft kit could build into something this presentable! It isn't Arma, true, but it is dirt cheap!

 

 

Nothing else has happened on any of Turkey's friends lately, but they're all very patient (at least, I see no signs to the contrary).

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I put another coat of Pledge on Turkey (Mistercraft Mk IIc) in order to seal in the decals and prep for some minor weathering. Continued on with the red on the spinner, and now that's all drying.

 

Meanwhile, for a few reasons I have begun paying some attention to Japan (Arma Mk IIb). Japan is going to be featured in Phase 3 (the Axis), but I am hoping to complete it as part of the Turning Japanese GB which begins in April. Originally I wanted to build this version from the Print Scale decals. I even bought the Tamiya colours to do the Japanese camo.

 

 

But as I looked at the only photo I could find, I realized at minimum the arrow colour is wrong--it is clearly not red, but (presumably) white. 

@Nick Millman confirmed these Print Scale decals are problematic as well. So, I switched plans and intend to model this ex ML-KNIL version instead; this one seems to be much better photographed and looks to be wearing it's original camo (so I'll likely stick with DE/DG over Sky blue as I'm doing on Netherlands). I have seen a pic where it had fuel tanks, so I may pop those on too, haven't decided on that yet.

 

 

I ordered these decals from Japan; even these seem to maybe have the wrong colour on the tail symbol (looks white in the photo, doesn't it?).

 

 

 

So with that mostly settled (maybe?), I opened the box and cut some sprue.

 

 

I will be using the PE from another Arma kit on this one.

 

 

Obviously not doing much here since it'll be a GB entry, but I chopped it up and went ahead and assembled the wheel well. With that I've packed it all up to wait for April!

 

 

Also, I've decided for now to give up on finding that missing nav light for South Africa (Arma Mk I), so I cut off one from Japan's clear sprue and painted it in preparation for installation.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by ModelingEdmontonian

[VT Red Sox Fan]

These all look great, will enjoy watching the Hurricane in Japanese hands come together—best, Erwin

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Turkey (Mistercraft Mk IIc) has its legs, as well as the pilot's step which these kits include. It is a little overdone, but I kept with it anyway.

 

 

I dry fit the canopy and prop after a little weathering on top.

 

 

Keeping Turkey pretty clean as I have most of the 'canes, but I did use some watered down burnt umber and oil "smoke" to dirty it a little. It'll need a matt coat sprayed when weather is better, so boxed up for now.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

With Turkey (Mistercraft Mk IIc) in its coop, I more-or-less finished Netherlands' (Arma Mk IIb) camo. Still feel the Dark Earth is a little "off" (too dark, too "olive-y") but we're going with it. 

 

 

The underside of India (Smer Mk IIc) is all done and I put a coat of Pledge overtop. Only difference between this underside and Turkey's is the bomb carriers (which were borrowed from Arma) (well, and the colour, of course). You'll also note two little bombs resting nearby... painting on these began way back with the rockets from Republic of Yugoslavia (AZ Mk IV), but they need some finishing up. I believe I pointed this out previously, but India will the only Hurricane of this collection carrying bombs.

 

[opus999]

Interesting... I didn't know that Japan had some captured Hurricanes.  That would be a fun subject to do.

 

Turkey looks wonderful!  I love the big bright "square-dels" and the rudder.  I also love your paint work on that one too. 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

23 hours ago, opus999 said:

Turkey looks wonderful!  I love the big bright "square-dels" and the rudder.  I also love your paint work on that one too. 

Thanks, @opus999, too kind about the paintwork, but all told I think it's turned out alright.

 

With the Pledge dry on the underside of India (Smer Mk IIc), I "treated myself" to some decaling. I'm not sure I've explained what I'm doing with India yet, so I will now. Note, I am trying to model an actual Indian Air Force Hurricane, not just a SEAC Hurricane, which definitely limits my options. I have two or three sets of decals for the famous "elephant" Hurricane, but there seem to be many issues with these markings so don't want to take them "as is." Arma has a couple of SEAC profiles in their kits, but both are RAF. Still, they give me something I trust to work off of. I've also reviewed lots of photos of SEAC Hurricanes and feel these are fairly good representations. So, I am going with DG/DE over MSG and black spinner, and certainly these were mostly being used for ground attack so the bombs make sense.

 

 

I will model serial KZ352 as I've confirmed it was a Mk IIc serving in India, and I'm going to assume it was with IAF Squadron 1 (I forget if I found any evidence of that or not, but I know I haven't seen anything that contradicted it). I think a single white "A" as the squadron code makes sense--this seems consistent with the photos I found of SEAC Hurricane Mk IIcs in 1944. I'll ditch the elephant and additional decor often seen in the KZ352 profiles. The white ID stripes were added to SEAC planes in late 1944 or 1945, so will be left off of this one (in my research I found very few SEAC Hurricanes with the white stripes, although some do have the white spinner). I would prefer to have a nice photo to model off of, but given what I am working with I feel fairly good about this plan.

 

So, I've been piecing this all together. Arma can supply the roundels and fin flash--theirs are the best. Smer's "KZ352" has a space it shouldn't have and the font looks off to me. The "A" seems close enough, though, and the black stencils will do.

 

 

Print Scale got the serial wrong--K2352--but the font looks better. Revell included KZ353, so I cut off the KZ from Revell and the 352 from Print Scale and they will be ok together, I think. 

 

 

After all that figuring out, here she is with her underside decals.

 

 

Then, a first coat of Mission Models Dark Earth on top. I am keen to see if the colour works better "fresh" vs. overtop of a different colour as on Netherlands. This is a very light coat, but the colour looks ok to me just now.

 

 

Then, she joined the paper towel tarmac beside (clockwise from bottom left): Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb); Portugal (Arma Mk IIc); and South Africa (Arma Mk I), which is out of her box and now has her second nav light installed.

 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

India (Smer Mk IIc), I "treated myself" to some decaling. I'm not sure I've explained what I'm doing with India yet, so I will now. Note, I am trying to model an actual Indian Air Force Hurricane, not just a SEAC Hurricane, which definitely limits my options.

Maybe a bit late.

A lot of Indian Hurricanes were  IIB's, and there are a few documented ones.  This one of the few IICs, 

 

 

in th thread it notes likley in the NW frontier, and still Day Fighter Scheme, not Sky band, and yellow leading edge stripes.  Also large Dark Green blotch on fuselage where old roundel overpainted

 

see

HTH

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I flipped Netherlands (Ama Mk IIb) over and touched up the camo and wheel well and then lathered on some Pledge.

 

 

The light is awful in this photo, but another coat of that Mission Models Dark Earth on top for India (Smer Mk IIc) and I'm still thinking it looks ok--have to see once the Dark Green goes on, I suppose.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Some stencils on the bottom of Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb)...

 

 

Then the exciting ones... the triangle roundels! Tridels?

 

 

Meanwhile, India (Smer Mk IIc) is looking pretty good with her Dark Earth. I think the colour is ok, but I am especially happy with how smooth the finish is. A real pleasure to work with as a brush painter. One more coat and then we'll move to Dark Green.

 

 

Here they are side-by-side with their remaining pieces.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I've been continuing to fight with the upper camo for Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb) for the last week. Pledge has made the MMP Dark Earth run, so I had to fix it all up, including some of the Dark Green that was ruined too. Then I opted to spray gloss coat instead of use Pledge, which seemed to finally work well. I thought she was looking pretty good out there in the sun, and for the first time I was feeling good about Netherlands' camo!

 

 

But, I celebrated too soon. As I began applying the decals, the moisture again impacted the Dark Earth. I managed to get them all on, but I had to be careful how much water I was using. This certainly impacted how easily I was able to move the decals around, but in the end they mostly seemed to have turned out ok. 

 

 

I'll now need to touch up the camo again, especially the rear fuselage. I'll then spray another gloss coat over top of it all (or seven, we'll see...) and hopefully get this bird wrapped up quick! I'm still not sure if there's something wrong with the paint or if it's the under coat of that Mistercraft stuff that's causing the issues (could be both, I guess). Regardless, I do love those orange triangles, so I imagine I'll enjoy Netherlands in the end, but at this point she's really frustrating me!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

After more Dark Earth touch ups and more rattle can gloss, I think I am now at the "good enough" stage in terms of the upper camo for Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb). I flipped her over last night to stick on the rear wheel and pitot tube.

 

 

I know that's not much of an update, but it's all I've got. I will pop on the remaining UC next and give the underside a matt coat next. Don't expect to do much weathering on this one.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

So I went ahead with my Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb) UC install and all was going swimmingly (in fact, the best of any kit so far, I dare say) when I realized I had two starboard doors! I was literally applying glue when I realized! So, I pulled out the UC doors for Portugal, India, and South Africa to figure out what was where.

 

 

After finding a port door and painting it Sky blue, I finished up the install. That's more like it...

 

 

Then, I flipped her over and stuck on the prop.

 

 

Today I pulled Turkey out of storage to prepare them both for a matt coat.

 

 

Underside first...

 

 

... and with that done, back on the bench for some work on the ID light for Netherlands. I did this a little differently this time, mixing my Kristal Klear amber on a lid before application.

 

 

And here it is just applied. Takes some time to dry and often there is some shrinkage, so we'll see what it looks like in the morning.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by ModelingEdmontonian

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Alright, Turkey (Mistercraft Mk IIc) and Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb) are basically done. Only issue to potentially resolve is around Turkey's single landing light where in taking off the liquid mask I also removed some Kristal Klear. Once the newly applied Kristal Klear dries I'll need to see if there's any touch up required. Otherwise, here they are waiting for RFI photos.

 

 

I opted to not add nav light silver paint to Turkey, although could still change my mind on that. Not entirely sure if I like that look or not on the others I've been doing it on. Arma, of course, provides the nav lights that, while requiring a lot of work, do look great when done.