ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said: Very nice work, ME, and a great finish. Have to agree with you that the REAF markings go well with the desert camo. What's up next? Cheers, Mark Thanks, Mark! Phase two (Hawker Hurricanes in other Allied markings) is underway, with Ireland (Arma Mk I), Soviet Union (AZ Mk IId), Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I), and Belgium (Airfix Mk I)! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 15 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: Thanks, Mark! Phase two (Hawker Hurricanes in other Allied markings) is underway, with Ireland (Arma Mk I), Soviet Union (AZ Mk IId), Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I), and Belgium (Airfix Mk I)! Since I like showing off the diversity of kits I'm using, here they are: And here is the state of play as focus switches fully to phase two--fuselages all buttoned up and wings attached; clockwise from top left we have Ireland, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, and Belgium. Mostly these are at the seam filling/sanding stage. Soviet Union (AZ Mk IId) probably needs the most attention in this regard, but really none of these are too bad, at least compared to some of the AZ kits I was working with in phase one. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 The Iliad decals generously provided by @dogsbody went on to G-AFKX's starboard fuselage beautifully, and here she is! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 With Bastille Day two days away, I'm cracking open my Fly Mk IIb kit to join the Fancy French GB--my first group build! This will be the Free French BG707, Black "1." I'll use the kit's decals for the serials and 1s for sure . . . . . . but I'm not so sure about the cross of Loraine having a red circle around it, so may replace with Kitsworld's and simply use red crosses. Et voila, France is joining Ireland, Belgium, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union on my late Grandma's old dining room table. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Oh what I would do to get a Hurricane IIb… I have a few sets of decals for them in both 1/72 & 1/48. Birthday is next month so hopefully I can do it with the birthday budget infusion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: This will be the Free French BG707, Black "1." I'll use the kit's decals for the serials and 1s for sure . . . . . . but I'm not so sure about the cross of Loraine having a red circle around it, so may replace with Kitsworld's and simply use red crosses. The reference pic If you open the image in a new tab, it gets ride of the PB logo defacing it... From what I can see, I know the pic is in Hurricane at War 2 (I'll check when I find mine) the outline is just a Dark Earth overpaint. Note the name on the cowling, not on the sheet as far as I can see... Fly Models, BTW are blinkin' awful at colours and markings research, they just use whatever pretty profile grab their eye ..... HTH 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: The reference pic If you open the image in a new tab, it gets ride of the PB logo defacing it... From what I can see, I know the pic is in Hurricane at War 2 (I'll check when I find mine) the outline is just a Dark Earth overpaint. Note the name on the cowling, not on the sheet as far as I can see... Fly Models, BTW are blinkin' awful at colours and markings research, they just use whatever pretty profile grab their eye ..... HTH Thanks, Troy. Dark Earth around fuselage roundel makes sense to me! Yes, good catch, a "Theodore" decal is missing! And with my modeling skills, will not get painted on! Mine might have to be pre-Theodore in that case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Oh what I would do to get a Hurricane IIb… I have a few sets of decals for them in both 1/72 & 1/48. Birthday is next month so hopefully I can do it with the birthday budget infusion. I suggest Arma if you do one in 1/72. Glad I'm seeing the Fly kit, but overpriced for what you get I'd say. Care to share pics of the decals? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: the Fly kit, but overpriced for what you get I'd say. They cost more in the UK than the Arma kit. But the reason I'm posting, I don't have a Hase/Fly Mk.II to check, but I know some of them have some pretty horrible spinners. I can see in your parts photo two spinners, the Arma Mk.I has a bullet Rotol as one of the options, which is well shaped, I'd check and compare the Fly ones. HTH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: They cost more in the UK than the Arma kit. But the reason I'm posting, I don't have a Hase/Fly Mk.II to check, but I know some of them have some pretty horrible spinners. I can see in your parts photo two spinners, the Arma Mk.I has a bullet Rotol as one of the options, which is well shaped, I'd check and compare the Fly ones. HTH I bought the expensive Arma Expert Mk IIb/c, but the Mk IIb by itself (https://www.armahobby.com/70043-hurricane-mk-ii-b-model-kit.html) seems like good value compared to Fly. These resin parts are included in the Fly kit too, Troy. Spinner looks ok to me but certainly interested in your thoughts! I know my photos are bad quality, I can take better ones of all three spinners provided if you're interested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 This is the Fly profile by the way: Troy, is there any basis for this DG/DE/MS camouflage on ANY Hurricane, or is it totally made up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: I can take better ones of all three spinners provided if you're interested. I wasn't aware the Fly had resin parts. FWIW, the spinner a good shape but the blade holes are too far up the spinner. So unless you want to mess about dril new holes and filling those, it's pretty useless. Also, the only Hurricanes I have seen with treaded tyres are warbirds. I recall the Hase wheels as being OK, not great, not awful. I'd suggest taking lining up the spinners on their bases, along with an Arma one, and doing a pic the two in the Fly kit and the Arma. Just too add to the confusion, there are two Rotol spinners. This is not in any guide that I know of, or mentioned in the manual. As they are similar, but not the same...confusion arises, even better, there does not seem to a be a pattern to their fitting, roughly the CM/1 came first, and then the ES/9, which becomes more usually fitted, but you see CM/1 late on.... see here https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235078582-hurricane-rotol-spinners-the-cm1-vs-es9-quest/ the pics on ava.org.ru show if you click them. HTH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: I suggest Arma if you do one in 1/72. Glad I'm seeing the Fly kit, but overpriced for what you get I'd say. Care to share pics of the decals? I can but need to get into my files so probably a little later today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: Troy, is there any basis for this DG/DE/MS camouflage on ANY Hurricane, or is it totally made up? as I said...Fly research seems to be looking for some pretty pictures and using those. As for DG/DE/MS.... again, no, this is a profile artist looking at a plane that is old and weathered, with some new paint in places. Cobblers is a far more polite term that I use in reality. As for research.... really. AG244 is NOT a IIb. AG244 is a Canadian built Mk.X, I suspect this has happened as there is a warbird XII painted as AG244 This is the actual AG244 there is a photo of the other side in on of the Hurricane At War books, which clear5ly shows the DH prop and other details, but does not seem to floating about online..... Info on the Mk.XII is these markings here https://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=57528 HTH 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) The combination DG/MS was briefly in existence for Middle East use, but it was rapidly withdrawn for DE/MS. Because of the variation in painting of ME Hurricanes, it was often thought to be the explanation for those examples with the darker colour through the cockpit. I suspect that there may be some hint of this in the Fly profile. The Lorraine Cross on a plain white disc was quite common, sometimes aft of a roundel, it could be seen in blue with a red outer ring mimicking the normal French roundel. I think that Fly could be right here, as the red of the fin stripes is a close match for the debated area. The subject has come up several times in this forum, partly because of different colours used for the cross at different times and places. MORAL: Qualify qualify qualify. Edited July 13, 2021 by Graham Boak Troy's comments and further checking - the original was misleading. It can be seen in the quote below.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The Lorraine Cross on a plain white disc was usually only seen in the very early days, placed behind an RAF roundel. When replacing the RAF roundel, it usually was blue with a red outer ring mimicking the normal French roundel. I think that Fly are probably right here, as the red of the fin stripes is a close match for the debated area. The subject has come up several times in this forum, partly because of different colours used for the cross at different times and places. Alright this is good to know! I haven't been able to definitively find a Lorraine cross with red outer ring (or any outer ring!) in my brief research, but if you say it's so, then maybe the Fly decals are the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 41 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The Lorraine Cross on a plain white disc was usually only seen in the very early days, placed behind an RAF roundel. In the linked thread, they are on white discs. The Hurricane are eg which also shows why I am so wary of profiles..... detail in the linked thread, but blue is first colour in the rudder stripes, as well as size and cross layout a few more here https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/Free-French.html 41 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: When replacing the RAF roundel, it usually was blue with a red outer ring mimicking the normal French roundel. An example of this practice please, I'm not finding any. 41 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: I think that Fly are probably right here, as the red of the fin stripes is a close match for the debated area. Fly, as I have said twice already, just pick nice profiles and copy them. the Fly scheme is copies from this AFAIK http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/79/pics/147_3.jpg A quick look through the options in their 1/32 Hurricane kits will confirm this, the usual suspects crop up, JX-E Be581 in THAT scheme, AK-G with the mottle nose and others. If the profile is well done, that fine, but they don't check, just copy. and 41 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: The subject has come up several times in this forum, partly because of different colours used for the cross at different times and places. 40 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: I haven't been able to definitively find a Lorraine cross with red outer ring (or any outer ring!) in my brief research, but if you say it's so, then maybe the Fly decals are the way to go. Finally, looking at this..... French roundels are too small, BG707 is too small (copied off profile) .... I don't see a red outer circle, and if you do an image search, I can't find a clear photo with anything other than a plain white disc as the background. The RAF C and C1 have too wide white band, the A and A1 have too small a red spot ...I'm sure there is more but RAF roundels proportions are not exactly a mystery..... It's poorly researched drivel. @ModelingEdmontonian, your choice, have a browse through the links. HTH 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Hmm. Overnight it occurred to me that I recalled a photo of a D.520 in Syria, possibly rather late, with the cross on a white disc. So I went digging and came up with a different one of a D.520 in Syria with just such a disc, but aft of the roundel. Probably a French roundel, however, as were other examples I found such as Dauntless and Oxford. There were, however, lots of photos showing only red (or blue) crosses on a white disc, and a number of these were on desert Hurricanes, both Mk.I and II. However a somewhat clearer print of the picture of BG707 still looks like a red ring to me. (In Chris Ehrengardt's last book for Caraktere?) Unlike other examples in the same unit, I have to add, so maybe, could be.... As for examples of the cross inside a red ring on the fuselage, look to Blenheims. Not all, admittedly, but they did exist. They had the combination of roundels and white disc with cross underwing. There does seem to have been considerable variety, but certainly many more of the plain discs that I'd credited, 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 3:01 PM, ModelingEdmontonian said: I suggest Arma if you do one in 1/72. Glad I'm seeing the Fly kit, but overpriced for what you get I'd say. Care to share pics of the decals? Sorry for the delay got a bit diverted yesterday, Im only including a few photo’s of the ones requested. I have 14 photo’s in total that just cover Hurricanes. I have 5 x 4” wide binders of decals. This one is strictly British/Commonwealth only. Excuse the mess in the background. This is the 1/72 sheet with the IIb. Lower right profile. Here is a close-up. And the 1/48 and a close up. They're both 274 Sq. I have several more photos mostly B.o.B. Era but some in other time periods. I dont want to dump 14 photos in your thread but can if you want the whole pile ? Dennis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: They're both 274 Sq. The Aeromaster Hurricane at 1 sheet.P2636, is a Mk,.I trop. The nose mottle is likely one of the aluminium base with blue and purple disruptive pattern, not sand and green as was though for a long time. Been discussed in in depth on occasion. HL795 is a IIB. I know there is a photo of this, and think the is one of P2636, but I'm not about to have a search now. If you want to know more I'll look later. HTH 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 On 7/13/2021 at 4:06 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Sorry for the delay got a bit diverted yesterday, Im only including a few photo’s of the ones requested. I have 14 photo’s in total that just cover Hurricanes. I have 5 x 4” wide binders of decals. This one is strictly British/Commonwealth only. Excuse the mess in the background. This is the 1/72 sheet with the IIb. Lower right profile. Here is a close-up. And the 1/48 and a close up. They're both 274 Sq. I have several more photos mostly B.o.B. Era but some in other time periods. I dont want to dump 14 photos in your thread but can if you want the whole pile ? Dennis I'm finally back on the forum after a few busy days (things are opening up and social life beckons again...). Anyway, wasn't trying to make you work, @Corsairfoxfouruncle, just curious to see Hurricane decals! Thanks for sharing; I do like the lightening bolts! I also love the organization system, I may want to consider that too as my collection expands! HL795 is in the Arma Mk IIb/c kit too btw: Feel free to share as many pictures of Hurricane-related decals, profiles, etc. on this thread as you like! It's all fascinating to me--plus when you get @Troy Smith to comment I think we all learn something! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelingEdmontonian Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 4:53 PM, Troy Smith said: @ModelingEdmontonian, your choice, have a browse through the links. Well, I've gone back and forth on whether I should switch to doing an Mk I (Z4434), but decided to stick with BG707 with standard desert camo. What I'll do for markings I'm not sure yet! @Graham Boak--I can't even find Blenheims with the red-circled roundel in my Google searches, do you have easy access to such a photo that you could share? Here's my WIP in the GB thread: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 More Great work, ME! Looking forward to seeing your next instalment, too. Cheers, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: @Graham Boak--I can't even find Blenheims with the red-circled roundel in my Google searches, do you have easy access to such a photo that you could share? Only in books, or at least the Ehrenhardt one mentioned above - I didn't look any further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said: Feel free to share as many pictures of Hurricane-related decals, profiles, etc. on this thread as you like! Ok you asked for it. This is just my RAF, R.N., and commonwealth collection binder. These are just the hurricane items. Airfix spares. And 1/48th Hopefully these are all good. Dennis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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