Hawker Hurricanes around the world

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

Don’t get me started on accurate colour, there is no such thing.

But there are degrees of accuracy of colour.

In the case of Tamiya,  most of their paint range are not specific colours. 

They only do 3 specific RAF colours, XF-81 Dark Green, XF-82 Ocean Grey Xf-83 Medium Sea Grey.

None are particularly close the standard, but it also seems Tamiya have batch variance issues.

But, FWIW,  from the ones I have

XF-81 Dark Green, - a bit too brown,  

XF-82 Ocean Grey - too blue,  Ocean Grey has a subtle green-blue aspect

Xf-83 Medium Sea Grey - hard to pin down, but MSG has a very very subtle purple blue hue,  which XF-83 does not. 

Solutions? add 20% XF-5 green to XF-81,  add a tiny amount of yellow  to XF-82, around 5%.  MSG is harder,  a reasonable match can be made by adding 50% white to XF-82,  a really close match involves adding a tiny amount of red to that

 

That said, I have found that none of the acrylic paint purporting to be matches for RAF WW2 paints are very good for the chips, which is rather depressing as this is hardly an arcane subject as several are still in the current BSC381C standard. 

 

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

As a modeller you can achieve pleasing colour or plausible colour.

Then you start with the specified colour, and take it from there.   What the modeller finds pleasing to the eye is up to them. 

I've not commented on the colours here, as the OP is happy with what he uses,  which are whatever seems the best bet from the existing Tamiya range,  and I don't blame him.     

Result.  A fascinating collection of completed Hurricanes models in some very interesting schemes, and a thread I greatly enjoy following and adding information too,  and try not  to distract in paralysing detail. 

    

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

But seeing as colour perception is based on the lighting, the observer, the environment and the state of the object.

 Yes, indeed. 

And certainly there are environmental factors that cause the appearance to change.    And this is an entire area of study of it's own.    

 

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

Trust me I’ve been trained in colour science. 

Always good to have some informed commentary.   

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

If you really want your head wrecked go check out the 4BO website, yes a whole website devoted to Russian vehicle green!

No, the site http://www.4bogreen.com, has ONE page on colour,  this one, http://www.4bogreen.com/colors  and it's not very helpful either, unless you have a FS595 deck.

the rest is on various KV type tanks.    

 

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

 

I’ll stop pontificating now  

ditto    Just trying to add some points, politely  I hope.  No offence is intended.  

[Marklo]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

No offence is intended.  

Don’t worry I see where you’re coming from.

 

I try very hard to be accurate but don’t necessarily stress myself out by it. I must admit that usually the colour I lay down is the nearest Tamiya equivalent (although I do have some Hataka, AK and mr colour paints too) which will then be adjusted in the airbrush cup according to wether it matches the hue in my head  

 

Now I do try to find reference samples and I mention the 4BO because I did do a bit of research prior to painting my T34.

 

Likewise for my Mk IV tank ( tank brown btw which is apparently the same colour as Cadburys milk chocolate) which is an exercise in frustration.

 

PC10 is another one I’ve researched a bit and have had to bite my tongue over some builds that have a dark tan as PC10  I must admit I use the AK PC10 early and PC10 late with Tamiya Khaki undercoat, both of which work for me. But I do niggle at the fact that the Germans nicknamed the RFC ‘the Sparrows’ which would suggest a more brown hue  

 

And yes I do agree the overall hue of a colour can be matched but things like saturation and batch variations can make the real world colours vary considerably.

 

Apologies if I’m hijacking the thread .

 

@Troy Smith I do find the debate fascinating, I just rew all the years of thinking that every airplane with a specific colour applied had to exactly match a  specific metheun reference and spending a fortune on authentic camo paint to try to achieve this.  

I’ll put my soapbox away now  

 

These days I think I have more fun with camo colours.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Marklo

[opus999]

I really like the Russian Hurricane!  It looks terrific!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:52 AM, Troy Smith said:

They only do 3 specific RAF colours, XF-81 Dark Green, XF-82 Ocean Grey Xf-83 Medium Sea Grey.

I have transitioned away from an old set of Humbrol's enamels (no longer sold in Canada, I believe) to Tamiya's acrylics: XF-81, XF-82, but for MSG I've been using XF-19. And for Dark Earth: XF-52; for Middelstone: XF-59; I use Vallejo's azure blue because Tamiya doesn't have seem to have even made an attempt at representing that colour. I think their Sky (XF-21) is pretty good to my very amateur eyes, and I'm using XF-23 to represent Sky Blue/the undersides of both Kingdom and Republic of Yugoslavia. 

 

On 11/27/2021 at 7:52 AM, Troy Smith said:

Solutions? add 20% XF-5 green to XF-81,  add a tiny amount of yellow  to XF-82, around 5%.  MSG is harder,  a reasonable match can be made by adding 50% white to XF-82,  a really close match involves adding a tiny amount of red to that

Maybe one day I'll get into mixing, but for now I'm sticking with them straight from the jar. 

 

On 11/27/2021 at 7:52 AM, Troy Smith said:

I've not commented on the colours here, as the OP is happy with what he uses,  which are whatever seems the best bet from the existing Tamiya range,  and I don't blame him.     

Result.  A fascinating collection of completed Hurricanes models in some very interesting schemes, and a thread I greatly enjoy following and adding information too,  and try not  to distract in paralysing detail. 

Thanks, @Troy Smith, you've captured my project wonderfully. 

 

Belgium (Airfix Mk I) will be the next completion. She got her (retracted) UC today. I am happy to have a couple in the collection "in flight," but this also lets me avoid using the wrong (four spoke) wheels (although some future Airfix Mk Is may sport them anyway).

 

 

You can see I've also applied decals to the rudder. I will attach the rudder when near completion in an off-centred way just to add some more variety. I was about to apply a stencil to the rudder too, but I cannot make out any stencils on these Belgian birds, so second guessed it.

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I use Vallejo's azure blue because Tamiya doesn't have seem to have even made an attempt at representing that colour.

I use Tamiya about 90% of the time and have come up with mixes for P.R.U. Blue and Mid-stone. For PRU I use this. The order is paint code and then drops of each color. Multiply based on how much paint you think you will need. 

 

P.R.U Blue = XF-18x2, X-14x4, XF-2x4, & XF-7x2

 

mid-stone this is my go to.

 

RAF MID.STONE - XF60 x 5 & XF59 x 2

 

I have plenty more mixes if you need them let me know. 
 

Dennis

Edited December 2, 2021 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I painted on Belgium's (Airfix Mk I) nav lights; this was early on, I built up the red and green a bit more than this in the end, but you get the idea.

 

 

In most cases (other than Arma kits, which include the nav lights) I just paint the nav lights silver, but since the underside of Belgium is aluminum I decided to add some colour.

 

Then, after some Pledge on top, I began applying the Print Scale decals. They went on nicely enough, but they are quite thin. especially with the yellow. 

 

 

Also, what I understand to be the squadron marking (circle with a thistle?) is possibly the wrong colour (others have suggested a brown circle as opposed to green), and certainly is missing the text that can be seen in photos.

 

 

I have no solution to the squadron marking, but I do have two sets of these decals, so I am considering doubling up on the roundels once the Microsol has finished its work to strengthen the yellow. I am not sure how well that might work as have never done it before. I do worry it could end up being too think then. Anyway, next step is the decals under the wings and then I will decide what to do up top.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Doubling up works fine just wait till the first is absolutely set say about 90 minutes to a few hours. Otherwise the Microsol may start to eat the decal. Ive used Microscale products since 1982 or 83. They're old but still do the job in most cases. Even on Japanese produced decals. 

[opus999]

Bummer about those roundels.  It may look good from a distance.  I second @Corsairfoxfouruncle's suggestion about doubling them up, if you can do it.  I've doubled up decals in the past and it has worked well.

 

The Hurricane looks awfully nice in the Belgian markings!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 12/4/2021 at 3:17 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Doubling up works fine 

On 12/5/2021 at 12:27 PM, opus999 said:

 I second @Corsairfoxfouruncle's suggestion about doubling them up, if you can do it.  I've doubled up decals in the past and it has worked well.

Thanks, for the encouragement! I've gone ahead and doubled up on the upper wings and fuselage and quite please with how it's worked. Doubled up on the starboard wing here, not on the port. Difference was even starker in person.

 

 

I was happy enough with how the roundels showed against the aluminum underside (this is before they settled in, but the colour shows well).

 

 

Once settled, I added prop and pitot tube, and did some work on the ejector ports. Since she'll be displayed "in flight" I considered alternatives with the the prop, but she's the only two-blade of the collection, so decided to display it as is.

 

 

I then attached the rudder, the first of my collection that will sit off-centre. Now we're waiting for a matt clear coat, but it's something like -16 C with the wind chill right now, so I'll be waiting for more comfortable weather.

 

 

Once she has her matt coat, we'll move on to ID light underneath (just Kristal Klear with a touch of colour), canopy up top, and landing lights on the wings. I think a touch of pledge on the nav lights and the antenna rod will be the final steps before she's mounted on a little plastic stand.

Edited December 7, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[dogsbody]

Only -16C with the windchill! That's nothing! It's -28C up here with no wind. 

 

To demonstrate just how cold that feels:

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[opus999]

The roundels turned out great!  That's a great looking aircraft.

[PlaStix]

Hi ModelingEdmontonian. Looks like your Hurricane manufacturing production line is still  progressing beautifully!

Kind regards,

Stix

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 12/7/2021 at 6:47 PM, opus999 said:

The roundels turned out great!  That's a great looking aircraft.

Thanks, Opus, I am pleased with them and I appreciate the encouragement you provided!

On 12/12/2021 at 10:14 AM, PlaStix said:

Hi ModelingEdmontonian. Looks like your Hurricane manufacturing production line is still  progressing beautifully!

Kind regards,

Stix

Progressing indeed, @PlaStix! Maybe one day they'll look something like yours (I can hope!)  

 

There's always some mistake (or many!) I'm making on every one of these! For example, with Belgium I overapplied Pledge on the underside and it pooled in a spot or two. I suppose some aggressive sanding could have fixed it, but that would have meant ruining the paintwork and probably taking out some of the fabric detail, so decided to live with it in the end. I don't think it's visible in this photo, so really it's only in certain light that I can even see it now.

 

 

I used Kristal Klear and red and yellow paint to make an ID light.

 

 

Ugly at first, but turns out pretty good, I think!

 

 

With the underside complete, I popped the canopy on.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Belgium (Airfix Mk I) is now mounted! I have used the rear of the radiator as the mount point. It is the first time I've modeled on a stand, but I like the look.

 

 

You can see Ireland (Arma Mk I) and Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I) in the background. Ireland's camo is nearly complete and Yugoslavia is waiting for her third upper colour.

Edited December 15, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Another angle of Belgium; some day when it isn't -23 C I'll take her outside and do some better photos.

 

[dogsbody]

16 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Another angle of Belgium; some day when it isn't -23 C I'll take her outside and do some better photos.

 

Yeah, it's cold AF up here, too.

Last night at midnight, it was -26 with a windchill of - 34.

 

 

 

Chris

[ModelingEdmontonian]

You may say this is a strange thing to do before my upper camo is even complete, but I went ahead and popped on Kingdom of Yugoslavia's (Airfix Mk I) single underside roundel. This is from the AZ Mk I kit, and is clearly much too big. But, it has settled in nicely and I will live with it.

 

 

The AZ decals do not include a serial, so I am more-or-less modeling a generic, Yugoslav-built (Zmaj) Hurricane such as featured in the photo below. You can see how much smaller the underwing roundel is versus the decal. I also note that there seems to be machine gun dope around the gun ports, but would this be red as it was for RAF or another colour? Can't say it looks particularly red to me, but hard to say in b&w.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by ModelingEdmontonian

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I) is pretty close with top camo complete and exhaust stacks, rudder, pitot tube, retracted UC, rear wheel, and poorly-painted pilot all affixed.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I)... I popped the upper decals on--really not that many (one upper wing roundel, walkway black, machine gun dope, and fin flash)--and added some colour to the nav lights. I'll have to work on the fin flash a little bit, I think, because they cross the relatively major divide between rudder and rest of the tail.

 

 

When it comes to the upper wing, I have seen the single roundel on either wing, so simply went with what I thought would look good, which is the opposite wing of the single underside roundel. On the imported Hurricanes it looks like the RYAF had roundels in four spots on the wings, but the Zmaj ones just had the two.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Fin flash settled in nicely on Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I) with some Microsol and pin work. A little panel liner was applied to a few spots, then some Pledge. Most of these Zmaj Hurricanes were destroyed/captured soon after completion, so I won't bother with weathering much. I am really enjoying the colourful RYAF camo scheme compared to the more-or-less standard schemes on most of the Hurris in this project so far (Australia (Arma Mk I) and G-AFKX (Airfix Mk I) are all silver and Argentina (AZ Mk IV) is a hybrid scheme, but otherwise all phase one and phase two versions so far completed wear RAF/RN schemes). Here is Kingdom of Yugoslavia beside Ireland (Arma Mk I) whose camo is now complete.

 

[blueYeti]

Excellent work 👍

[opus999]

I like the colors and pattern of the camo on the Yugoslav Hurricane!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

On 12/22/2021 at 3:13 PM, blueYeti said:

Excellent work 👍

Thanks, @blueYeti!

On 12/23/2021 at 9:53 AM, opus999 said:

I like the colors and pattern of the camo on the Yugoslav Hurricane!

Cheers, @opus999!

 

Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I) is basically now waiting for better weather (-27 C right now) for a matt coat spray. So, moving on to underside decals on Ireland (Arma Mk I).

 

 

The stencils are from Arma, but the Irish decals are from Airfix via @Beard. The Airfix decals are quite thick, but the tricolour stripes do seem to be settling in, so I moved on to the 105s. Maybe should have cut these numbers out individually, but I went the lazy route. We'll see how it works, lots of Microsol will be used...

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[Beard]

I'm glad to see my surplus stickers being put to good use and it looks like the Microsol is working.

[Troy Smith]

On 24/12/2021 at 17:11, ModelingEdmontonian said:

The Airfix decals are quite thick, but the tricolour stripes do seem to be settling in, so I moved on to the 105s. Maybe should have cut these numbers out individually, but I went the lazy route. We'll see how it works, lots of Microsol will be used...

Two suggestions,  I recall you got some Pledge/Kleer/Future type varnish,  you can use it to bed decals,   

I may well have posted this, I can't be faffed to go through 15 pages to check

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235038987-bedding-decals-in-klear-future-or-equivalent/

 

The other , in combination, especially for thicker decals is hot water,  i think I mentioned this, but combined it's very good for eliminating carrier film and getting them to conform.

 

Note, you can use a hot compress after application as well, and you can pierce a decal and carrier film with pin, and then add microsol to get it under the decal.

 

HTH , apologies if repeating myself.