Hawker Hurricanes around the world

[ModelingEdmontonian]

First upper camo colour is more-or-less done on all:

 

 

And dark green application has begun. Soviet Union (AZ Mk IId) is in the upper right below and pretty close to done (honestly I'm feeling proud of it, I think it's the best brush application I have accomplished to date). Soviet Union has clearly been the beneficiary of most of my attention, but Belgium (Airfix Mk I) in the top left and Yugoslavia (Airfix Mk I) in the bottom left have had a few brush strokes applied. Ireland (Arma Mk I) in the bottom right has so far been neglected, but has assured me she is waiting patiently. 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Camo is going to need some touch-ups, but I've gone ahead and done some other work on Soviet Union (AZ Mk IId) before getting to that. I had already applied Pledge to the underside, and I went ahead and affixed the rear wheel (decided to add some subtle variety to my collection by attaching it off-centre) and gave her a pair of red stars underneath (these two are not from the kit's decals because the kit only gives decals for the underside wings and fuselage, whereas it seems clear that the British applied the stars in all six roundel positions [i.e., on upper wings, too]; I wanted to save the more accurate white-framed stars for the upper wings, so these two are from my Kits World sheet and slightly less accurate for the period).

 

 

I have also painted the cannons with some gunmetal, and worked on the exhausts, which are of course not visible in this photo. The exhausts on my prior AZ kits gave me tremendous headaches, but thankfully I was able to apply some lessons from those kits to this one and they're turning out just fine. Despite the fact that I have largely overcome that issue, this shot gives you a sense for how poorly aligned the wheel well is with the lower wing--an issue I have opted to not address. Argentina (AZ Mk IV) and Poland (AZ Mk I) did not have this issue (or at least not to the same extent), although Poland's wheel well was resin so quite different (and certainly that AZ Mk I kit was overall much more problematic than this Mk IId is!).

 

I loved what @AliGauld did with his IL-2 winter camo and was hoping I could do a VVS winter coat on this Hurricane; but, my research suggests it is unlikely these Mk IIds ever wore a winter camo, so straight up DFS it is (with black spinner). I certainly do not pretend to be an expert, but I understand most (all?) of the VVS Mk IIds were shipped out of North Africa via Iran (where presumably they were repainted and stars affixed before delivery) in 1943. They underperformed, were mostly unappreciated, and, therefore, underutilized. They never saw combat. Here is the white 21 I am modeling; this picture seems to sum up the Soviet career of Hurricane Mk IIds! Still, she'll make a pretty model 😋

 

[opus999]

Nice!  I'm getting anxious to see how that Soviet Hurricane will turn out.  

[ModelingEdmontonian]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

Nice!  I'm getting anxious to see how that Soviet Hurricane will turn out.  

Thanks, @opus999

 

I could have also noted that I am modeling Soviet Union as if landing lights have been plated over to protect them from the cannon blasts... actually I'm struggling to find a photo of an Mk IId that didn't have landing lights, but I understand covering them over was common practice and since AZ has not given me cut-aways, I am using that excuse to avoid cutting them out. This was my approach on Argentina (AZ Mk IV) as well (although in that case the photo backed me up). Poland (AZ Mk I), on the other hand, I did the hard way, "borrowing" the landing lights provided in this AZ Mk IId kit.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[dogsbody]

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126962

 

 

 

Chris

[ModelingEdmontonian]

2 hours ago, dogsbody said:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126962

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks, Chris! The caption says those are Mk IVs though, although if Mk IVs are armed with cannons I don't know how to tell what's an Mk IV or an Mk IId. And probably safe to assume if they covered up landing lights on the Mk IV they did on the Mk IId too. I'm just surprised how many Mk IId photos I found with landing lights uncovered.

[Graham Boak]

Landing lights were covered up on Typhoons because of the rocket blast, so I would expect that this was also true of the Mk.IVs, but by that logic not for the Mk.IId.  The first basic difference is that the Mk.IV was armoured and this is visible around the radiator.  I've seen it said that at least some Mk.IId were fitted with armour, but I've not seen a photo of one.  The second major difference is that the Mk.IId only came with 2x40mm armament: the Mk.IV had a universal wing that could take the cannon or rockets.  Also apparently bombs, but these are more rarely seen (if ever)  You will see examples with rockets under one wing and a fuel tank under the other.  Rockets do seem to have been by far the most common armament, but India has been reported to have one squadron of Mk.IVs specialising in rockets whilst the other retained the gun,

[ModelingEdmontonian]

3 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Landing lights were covered up on Typhoons because of the rocket blast, so I would expect that this was also true of the Mk.IVs, but by that logic not for the Mk.IId.  The first basic difference is that the Mk.IV was armoured and this is visible around the radiator.  I've seen it said that at least some Mk.IId were fitted with armour, but I've not seen a photo of one.  The second major difference is that the Mk.IId only came with 2x40mm armament: the Mk.IV had a universal wing that could take the cannon or rockets.  Also apparently bombs, but these are more rarely seen (if ever)  You will see examples with rockets under one wing and a fuel tank under the other.  Rockets do seem to have been by far the most common armament, but India has been reported to have one squadron of Mk.IVs specialising in rockets whilst the other retained the gun,

Great info. So would you assume these Mk IV landing lights are covered up because they sometimes carried rockets?

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126962

 

[Graham Boak]

Either that or no Mk.IVs had them?

 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I forgot, @Troy Smith shared this link previously which seems to show the Mk IId with covered landing lights.

 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Either that or no Mk.IVs had them?

Interesting, now I wonder... I have one more Mk IV in the queue (Republic of Yugoslavia, another AZ Mk IV) so I'll see what I find when that research starts. Soviet Union is my only Mk IId. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by ModelingEdmontonian

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

expect that this was also true of the Mk.IVs, but by that logic not for the Mk.IId.  The first basic difference is that the Mk.IV was armoured and this is visible around the radiator.  I've seen it said that at least some Mk.IId were fitted with armour, but I've not seen a photo of one

 seems to have beceom standard fit after the initial batch of IID's, the BN/BP serials.  These are the ones in the film above.  

EDIT seems the KW lack armour, but the KX have armour.  

 

I presume that damage and losses in the desert showed the need. 

 

the KW serials may not have the added armour, 

this is KW867

 

Other images of KW867 (from a film)  show plated over lights. 

 

KX serials have the added armour,  on radiator, cockpit windscreen sides., and applique under windscreen on decking.  They are basically the same externally as Mk.IV,  the manual says the M.IV universal wing can be fitted to a IID, but does not make it a Mk.IV as they lack the wiring and fittings. 

KX171 at the NII VVS

 

landing light in port wing, with cover plate in starboard. 

 

ypou can see the screws in the cover plate

 

this is KX305, also at NII VVS. again,  added armour,  on radiator, cockpit windscreen sides., and applique under windscreen on decking. 

again, same on the landing lights

 

 

more images of these 2 here

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art7497.htm

 

It should be noted that the later IID's were built alongside Mk.IV's,  but only about 300 IID's were built, note that the 60 the Soviets has were from the KW/KX batch. 

 

31 minutes ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

I have one more Mk IV in the queue (Republic of Yugoslavia, another Mk IV) so I'll see what I find when that research starts.

the Mk.IV in Belgrade, has the same, port only. 

 

 

 

 

walkround here

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2010/03/31/hawker-hurricane-mk-ivrp-in-museum-of-aviation-in-belgrade-serbia/

 

 

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/gallery/hurricane-mjv/img_0276.jpg

Note, that the perspex is screwed on, so a metal cover plate is an easy substitution, or just a cover added.  

 

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/gallery/hurricane-mjv/img_0282.jpg

 

the Mk.IVs here

not show landing lights, but are rocket equipped.   Note, 351 Sq got Hurricane IV's from 6 Sq I believe.  

The IID and IV are not well covered in existing publications.   I'm still collating information.

 

see 

 

 

HTH

 

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Thanks, Chris! The caption says those are Mk IVs though, although if Mk IVs are armed with cannons I don't know how to tell what's an Mk IV or an Mk IId. And probably safe to assume if they covered up landing lights on the Mk IV they did on the Mk IId too. I'm just surprised how many Mk IId photos I found with landing lights uncovered.

 

Damn! I really should read the captions fully before posting. Sorry!

 

 

Chris

[Troy Smith]

5 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

Damn! I really should read the captions fully before posting. Sorry!

they have often been captioned as IIDs though, which may explain the confusion, note the IWM have that photo of KW867 as HW867, which is a IIC.

 

One other point about that 164 Sq photo, not the 2nd plane has reversed upper surface colours.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

11 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

 

Damn! I really should read the captions fully before posting. Sorry!

 

 

Chris

All good, if it's information about a Hurricane it's welcome here!

 

Brilliant info as usual, @Troy Smith, thanks! do you know why one light would be covered and not the other if the concern is blast damage? Seems same risk on both sides, no?

[dogsbody]

Let's try this again!

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209067

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205212852

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188528

 

 

 

Chris

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

do you know why one light would be covered and not the other if the concern is blast damage? Seems same risk on both sides, no?

No idea.   Good question though.   

 

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

Let's try this again!

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209067

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205212852

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188528

 

 All IID's

in the last colour shot,  there is info on those, and more here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235071194-hurricane-iid-6-squadron-leading-edge-wing-stripe-and-some-marking-observations/

 

Note the 6sq IID's have plated over lights.    No visible armour on the HV/HW/KW Hurricanes in the link.  

 

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

I made some more progress on Soviet Union, but also decided to start cutting sprue/bathe the remaining six phase two kits. These are, from top right clockwise: Turkey (Mistercraft Mk IIc); Netherlands (Arma Mk IIb); South Africa (Arma Mk I); Portugal (Arma Mk IIc); India (Smer Mk IIc--identical sprues to the Mistercraft); and Republic of Yugoslavia (AZ Mk IV).

 

 

I also took the opportunity to finally get the group photo of kit boxes I promised. 

 

 

There are two more of that JX-G Airfix Mk I boxing (four total), so with these 22 that is 24 in all. And, other than those four Mk Is, no duplicates. Sorry the photo isn't better, I may try again in better lighting.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Balmy November day today (8 degrees Celsius!), so a good opportunity to take the rattle can outside and have a go with some aluminum on six Hurris' worth of cockpit and UC parts. Believe it or not, I am confident about which kit all of these parts belongs to!

 

[dogsbody]

It got up to 4C up here today. At 8am it was -9C.

 

 

Chris

[bigbadbadge]

Nice progress on these, crikey it's only when the family photo of all the boxes together, shows how many you are building.  

Great job sk far

Chris

[ModelingEdmontonian]

16 hours ago, dogsbody said:

It got up to 4C up here today. At 8am it was -9C.

 

 

Chris

Yup winter ❄️ is coming! 

 

5 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Nice progress on these, crikey it's only when the family photo of all the boxes together, shows how many you are building.  

Great job sk far

Chris

Thanks! Yes, it's a big project and I'm a slow modeller, but having fun!

[ModelingEdmontonian]

These Heller/Smer/Mistercraft sprues are pretty lousy... lots of flash, but also, for example, the wheel well has zero detail and there is a cut-out for one landing light but not the second (actually consistent with the Belgrade Hurricane's port wing only, so perhaps based in some actual research?).

 

 

While I was away from the modeling table I had the inspiration of using my spare Arma Mk IIc wings from my Mk IIb kits, but when actually looking at it I realized it would take a superior modeler than I am to make that work. The wings are cut out to meet the fuselage forward on the Arma set, but rearward on the Smer, such that it would involve what would be for me major surgery. There are also some other issues, so I abandoned that plan.

 

 

Then I realized I had a spare set of Mk IIc wings from my Airfix Mk XII kit, which actually came closer to lining up with the fuselage, at least from the top.  

 

 

But, from the bottom I would be let with a massive gap, and, moreover, this option would leave me without a wheel well at all! 

 

 

I may still steal some superior spare parts for the UC and possible the canopy, but I think I have resigned myself to mostly working with what I have OOB. All in all makes me all the more appreciative of what Arma has done, and I realize this project would be far less compelling if Arma wasn't doing what they're doing! Then further I was wondering: what were Mk I metal wing options in 1/72 before Arma came along? I think five of my 24 are Mk I metal wings, and I'm not sure what I would have even been able to use if not for these Arma sets. 

[Beard]

Off the top of my head, before the Arma Hobby came along the choices were Revell, Airfix, or Hasegawa.

[ModelingEdmontonian]

6 minutes ago, Beard said:

Off the top of my head, before the Arma Hobby came along the choices were Revell, Airfix, or Hasegawa.

Ah, yes I suppose I have seen all of those as I scanned for kits, although none were easy to find... also all from 25+ years ago, I believe and, presumably, wouldn't hold a candle to Arma?