Sherman in British/Canadian service

[Phil1960]

Hi All, i'm very interested to made a British/Canadian or Commonwealth Sherman used:

- in Western Desert during El Alamein battles;

- in Italian theatre (Operation Huskey, Ortona area, Cassino area).

In your opinion which is the best 1/35 Sherman available on the market?

Many thanks for your help

Ciao

Filippo   

[Ted]

I can only speak about the Italianan campaign. I built a Tasca M4A4 as a Three Rivers Regiment tank as it would have appeared at Ortona. It was an excellent kit. I used decals from Ultracast that may not be available. 

 

This webpage shows the Canadian units that served in Italy. Canadian Army Units in Italy

 

Most of the shermans would be M4A4 but I believe that the Governor General’s Horse Guards used some M4A1 in Italy.

[Kingsman]

I think that the question is perhaps best framed around a unit you might want to depict.  Many different M4 variants were used by UK and Canadian forces in Italy, incuding: M4 Composite, M4(105), M4A1, M4A1(76), M4A2 and M4A4.  Plus Firefly versions of the Composite and A4.  Many tanks on Op Husky were earleir models from N Africa as well as newer models.  Probably the most common British variant in Italy in the Cassino period was the M4A2 Sherman III, with the M4A4 Sherman V for the Canadians.

 

That covers a range of brands.  If there is a pecking order I suppose it probably starts with Asuka, then moves to RFM (Firefly VC only) then on to Dragon. Italeri don't have anything appropriate or worth bothering with (which includes Heller and Matchbox re-boxes).  Same for Academy/Airfix, Zvezda, Meng, Tamiya.  Some kits are specifically Commonwealth with UK/Commonwealth specific parts.  The Dragon "Sicily" Sherman III, for example, is probably the best option for a Commonwealth M4A2 in Sicily or Italy.  But it has very uncommon tracks more usually seen on M3s. And they are the problematic DS plastic, so need to be replaced anyway.

 

For the Alamein era your options are M4A1 or M4A2 only, most if not all with direct vision.  Asuka and Dragon both offer M4A1(Sherman II) and M4A2 (Sherman III) kits appropriate to the Alamein era.

 

Unfortuately there is no such thing as the best Sherman kit.  Bearing in mind that there were myriad variations of Sherman some brands are better for some variants than others, and some kits are pretty old.  Others are very inaccurate.

[Phil1960]

Thank you! I'll search Dragon ones!

Ciao

f

[Kingsman]

I don't think any of the Dragon kits are currently available new while they go through the process of changing over from DS tracks to link and length.  You do see them on eBay, typically £40-50.  The Asuka kits have always been hard to find and a lot more expensive.  £60+ is not unusual.  As for replacement tracks I like the Bronco plastic workable ones, which come in pretty much all of the service varieties.  T41/51 plain rubber block tracks would be appropriate for the Alamein era.  By the time of Sicily and early Italy the T54 steel chevron types were around.  Other brands are available: the new Miniart T41s are nice, but Bronco's construction is stronger if more fiddly.  Miniart and Bronco tracks have the advantage of being very much cheaper than resin and metal brands.

 

These are the Sherman IIIs you ideally want for Sicily and early Italy.  The one on the right works for later N Africa too.

  

 

These are the Sherman IIs and IIIs you want for Alamein era.  The Direct Vision Sherman IIIs can also be used for Sicily and early Italy.  Note that the Cyber Hobby boxing has the early M3-type top roller suspension whereas the Dragon boxing has the M4 trailing-roller type like the Asuka.  Both are OK for N Africa,  but the M4-type bogies would be more typical for Italy

      

  

[Modeler8522]

Only got fornthe Tasca asuka the rest are justnold italiri rebox kit absolutely terrible builds!

[Kingsman]

5 hours ago, Modeler8522 said:

the rest are justnold italiri rebox kit absolutely terrible builds!

Not true on either count.  With apologies and respect, an entirely uninformed opinion.  Dragon have never reboxed an Italeri Sherman, or any other Italeri product AFAIK.  If you want to look at the genesis of kits, look no further than Scalemates' product timelines.

 

Early Dragon M4 kits did indeed use essentially the Italeri suspension but later releases have had these updated with new and better parts.  You would have to pick up one of the really old original Dragon M4 kits to still find those.  Don't forget that when Dragon began releasing their M4s Italeri had only issued their poor M4A1(76) kit with one type of bogie.  Dragon's own M4A1(76) is a completely different kit, but not without its own problems.  Since then Dragon have tooled new bogies with both flat and upswept roller arms and M3-type top-roller bogies and just about all the different types of roadwheels, idlers and sprockets.  So they have left any Italeri association behind.  Italeri have subsquently released newer M4, M4A2 and M4A3 kits but these are not related to Dragon products.

 

Dragon's hulls and turrets have had no relationship whatsoever with Italeri.

 

As for building them, there is nothing really wrong with Dragon's more recent M4 releases and in some variant cases they are still the only show in town.  Asuka, Meng and RFM have trumped them on some variants.  Zvezda are coming up on the rails but are still 2nd class along with Academy.  Italeri are in everyone's dust.  In my opinion, that is: other opinions are available and I'm standing by for incoming..........

 

Dragon and Cyber Hobby kits I would definitely avoid - not that you see them now very often anyway - are their IDF M50, 1st release IDF M51, Sherman VC Firefly, Sherman V / M4A4, 1st release Sherman IC Firefly.  Not only are they poor in some way but they have all, except the M50, now been done much better by others.

 

As always with Shermans. the differences can be more than just the sum of the parts.  Take desert-era M4A1, for example.  Yes the Asuka is a better kit if you can find it and are prepared to pay £65 for it.  But Dragon's kit is a riveted lower hull PSC whereas Asuka's is Lima production.  There are differences.  Likewise Asuka do a single factory type of non-DV M4A2 whereas Dragon do 2 other different ones including probably the most common factory type in Commonwealth service.  Their desert-era kits come with different combinations of hulls and bogies.