Blackburn Shark Color Question

[Tweener]

Which shade of gray would the Fleet Air Arm have painted their Blackburn Sharks with? I have 2 copies of the FROG kit on the way.

 

Thanks all,

Tweener

[stever219]

Upper or under surfaces (or both) and when?  Pre World War II they’d have been aluminium overall with some panels/areas Cerrux Grey (an approximation to aluminium) ant corrosion finish but once hostilities commenced undersides would have been Sky Grey with uppers n Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey.  Variations were not uncommon, especially through the Phoney War period.

[Tweener]

12 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Upper or under surfaces (or both) and when?  Pre World War II they’d have been aluminium overall with some panels/areas Cerrux Grey (an approximation to aluminium) ant corrosion finish but once hostilities commenced undersides would have been Sky Grey with uppers n Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey.  Variations were not uncommon, especially through the Phoney War period.

Pre-war, circa 1935-1936 when they were still in front-line service, or the Portuguese machines at any point, as they don't seem to have ever been repainted. What confuses me is that the FROG / Re-Pop instructions all seem to indicate that the fuselage of the Shark was a light gray with black uppers and aluminum wings. Is this false?

[Graham Boak]

The Shark had a metal fuselage so would have had Cerrux Grey or possibly Sky Grey there.  Fabric covered wings would be Aluminium.  I think the Shark has fabric covered wings, but am open to correction.

[dogsbody]

Author Carl Vincent has asked me to post this information:

 

 The RCAF Shark II’s were delivered in exactly the same finish as the FAA examples. As I wrote in my 1974 book on this aircraft:

Externally all metal-skinned portions of the structure, – the fuselage, fin, engine cowling, struts and undercarriage legs – were light grey, with the exception of a black upper fuselage deck. All fabric covered portions were aluminum dope as were the floats and floats struts. The interior was a light grey-green.

As I recall, this information was obtained from the RCAF files on this aircraft which were reasonably complete. My research notes etc. are, alas, one with the years that the locust has eaten.

I attach two photos which may be of some interest, if only because of their rarity. These are not colourized but examples of the colour photography that was coming in to use at this time. I acquired these photos (transparencies really) a few months after my book hit the printers. Wouldn’t you know it?! They portray the Sharks of 6 (TB) in the spring of 1939, probably at the time of the Royal Visit.

 

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris, for Carl

[825]

At the beginning of the war in 1939, the Sharks still in use by the FAA in the U.K. would no longer be front line but in training squadrons. The camouflage scheme would most likely be the Temperate Land Scheme, i.e. Dark Green and Dark Earth, rather than the Temperate Sea Scheme or S1E its predecessor. The underside would likely be yellow. I'm afraid I've no knowledge of the camouflage schemes of the RCAF aircraft but there are others here who will put you in the right direction. 

[dogsbody]

50 minutes ago, 825 said:

At the beginning of the war in 1939, the Sharks still in use by the FAA in the U.K. would no longer be front line but in training squadrons. The camouflage scheme would most likely be the Temperate Land Scheme, i.e. Dark Green and Dark Earth, rather than the Temperate Sea Scheme or S1E its predecessor. The underside would likely be yellow.

 

 

I've got this:

 

 

 

 

 

No claims to the accuracy of the profiles They were things I found when I first went online almost 20 years ago.

 

 

As for RCAF colour scheme, I've got this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[825]

@dogsbody thanks, it just shows how challenging this can be. Carl's photos show the pre-war scheme well, confirming the light grey metal parts and probably Aluminium doped wings. 

 

The camouflage photograph shows a reasonable amount of contrast between the colours so suggests DG/DE of TLS. However, it could equally be TSS. No obvious underside colour to be seen but could be black/night or in shadow. If black/night would suggest the uppersurfaces could be TSS as would expect yellow if TLS as per training aircraft. There's a canopy over the cockpit which suggests it's a MkIII so could be based in Canada, Trinidad or the UK. 

 

Usual nightmare of interpreting a B&W photo around 80 years later. It looks like, and there's a nice pic on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Shark as well as Carl's beautiful photos, that the pre-war grey and Aluminium dope with black upper fuselage was fairly consistent. 

[825]

Airmiltair http://www.worldmilitair.com/serials/serials b/bla 010 0006.pdf suggests that K8513 was used by the Royal Air Force (Army/Navy inc) so I presume that it's probably FAA, though the RAF did use Sharks operationally and as target tugs in the Far East. Probably not Canadian then and as the Sharks that went to Trinidad were ex RCAF then where the phot was taken could be UK or possibly Singapore/Malaya. 

[Carl V]

Hi, 825:

 

1.         Thanks for your kind remarks.

2.         You mentioned RCAF Sharks going to Trinidad and I am sure you will not take it amiss if I venture to correct this long-standing myth     .

3.         My impression is that way back in the cretinaceous age – at least 60 years back – somebody noticed that five RCAF Sharks had, at the end of their careers, being transferred to the Royal Navy as free issue. He/she immediately leapt to the conclusion that they had gone to Trinidad although (I believe) that establishment had just ceased to use Sharks. Since then, this assumption has pretty well been cast in concrete despite abundant evidence to the contrary.

4.         In fact these Sharks – one II and four III Can’s were transferred to the RN for use in deck and hangar handling training on five RN escort carriers that were completing on the US North Pacific Coast. Somewhere on their passage to the UK (never anywhere near Trinidad) before their deck cargo or operational aircraft were taken on board the Sharks were ditched over the side.

5.         I have some excellent photos of the Shark on HMS Puncher and a few years back there was a series of photos somewhere on the Internet showing the Shark on HMS Thane, including a couple showing it being given the deep six.

 

Carl

[Tweener]

Thanks for the assistance everyone. As I will be building a Floats Mark II in Portuguese colors with the first kit and a Wheeled Mark II with the second, I'll need Cerrux gray for the Fuselage and Aluminum for the rest, though the info about Canadian machines may prove helpful either later or to others. My question now is, is there a known FS # for Cerrux Gray? If not I will probably just use Light Gull Gray from a spray can, mask and paint the black decking, then try to attach the wings and floats which I'll have sprayed aluminum.

[72modeler]

I think @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies offers Cerrux grey in the new Colourcoats  series of paint; stock number ACRN33 IIRC, I have seen an FS equivalent of FS 16440 listed on a couple of color charts, which is also USN light gull grey, but I have no idea how accurate that number is to the color chip- you have to be careful when using FS color chips for WW2 aircraft colors, but might get you into the ballpark. I think the last time I painted something Cerrux grey, I used  FS 16440 with a few drops of  flat aluminum added.

Mike

[Aidrian]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

I have seen an FS equivalent of FS 16440 listed on a couple of color charts, which is also USN light gull grey, but I have no idea how accurate that number is to the color chip-

To my eyes 16440 is possibly a little bit warmer than Cerrux grey as is Light Aircraft Grey. However, Nick Millman said 36440 is a good match when compared to the Cellon csample which he had access to.

 

 

 

[detail is everything]

May I point you in the direction of Matthew Willis' book on the Blackburn Shark (http://mmpbooks.com/shop2/blackburn-shark.html).  A great reference source