Help needed with Hawker Typhoons and Tempests ?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

        Hello everyone... Two quick question’s that cover some of Hawkers finest, particularly the Typhoons and Tempests. Now am I correct that these all pretty much stayed in the NWE theatre ? I know 451 Sq. Tested three in North Africa but I don't think any were operational in the N.A./Med. or SEA Theatre’s. I’ve got an old Frog car door Typhoon winging its way to me and was starting my research for this future build. 
       Second question concerns the underside I.D.striping, was it 3 black and 4 white stripes ? Or was it 3 white and 4 Black stripes ? I think the white bands were twice the width of the black ~vs~  the same size on the later D-Day stripes ? And last the lower cowling is also white but not the fuselage if I'm correct ? Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated ? 
 

Dennis

Edited March 4, 2021 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Wez]

@Chris Thomas is your man, if he can't answer a Typhoon/Tempest question, nobody can!

[Troy Smith]

53 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Second question concerns the underside I.D.striping, was it 3 black and 4 white stripes ? Or was it 3 white and 4 Black stripes ? I think the white bands were twice the width of the black ~vs~  the same size on the later D-Day stripes ? And last the lower cowling is also white but not the fuselage if I'm correct ? Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated ? 

 

All of the above and a fair bit more is in here.   

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Tornado-Typhoon-Tempest

 

which gives a when and why.   

 

also I recommend a look at the period colour on @Etiennedup flickr

Typhoon

Tempest

 

There was a great article by @Chris Thomas which was on the Airfix site, which I can't find, and someone recently had been removed, which is a really bad idea, as it provided a good overview of what changes occured with what serial block and dates....

 

I have this saved somewhere if you need it. 

 

HTH

[dogsbody]

From Warpaint # 5, The Hawker Typhoon:

 

 

 

 

I have to ask: why would you want such an old, crappy P.O.S. kit? I think I'd be more tempted to convert an Academy kit.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

I have to ask: why would you want such an old, crappy P.O.S. kit? I think I'd be more tempted to convert an Academy kit.

I like to practice my scratch building and filling/polishing on these old kits. Also I think they need a bit of love in the modern era. Too many people denigrate these types as unbuildable because we’ve gotten spoiled by the likes of Tamiya. But this is what modeling is to me. Seeing what I can do with old kits. Besides as you've said not many options for a car-door (my favorite type of Tiffy BTW). 

[dogsbody]

Well, if you need spare parts, I've got a bagged one.

 

On inspection, there are 2 kits in the bag, but with only 1 canopy and 1 decal sheet.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

Well, if you need spare parts, I've got a bagged one.

 

On inspection, there are 2 kits in the bag, but with only 1 canopy and 1 decal sheet.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

I will let you know if I need anything. 

[rossm]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I like to practice my scratch building and filling/polishing on these old kits. Also I think they need a bit of love in the modern era. Too many people denigrate these types as unbuildable because we’ve gotten spoiled by the likes of Tamiya. But this is what modeling is to me. Seeing what I can do with old kits. Besides as you've said not many options for a car-door (my favorite type of Tiffy BTW). 

 

It's a hobby so you can do what you like. I'm just as happy getting an imperfect result from improving an old kit as I am getting an imperfect result from applying my usual level of finishing skills to a Tamigawa 😃

 

Again. I have some Typhoon bits and pieces around if you need anything, and quite a few scans of my references as I needed them to be portable in the days when I spent part of a month in Norfolk and part in Cornwall. 

[FinnAndersen]

13 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I like to practice my scratch building and filling/polishing on these old kits. Also I think they need a bit of love in the modern era. Too many people denigrate these types as unbuildable because we’ve gotten spoiled by the likes of Tamiya. But this is what modeling is to me. Seeing what I can do with old kits. Besides as you've said not many options for a car-door (my favorite type of Tiffy BTW). 

Silk purse from a sow's ear? I envy your approach, it makes such good sense.

 

I did an Academy Typhoon in the tropical trials scheme and are doing a Brengun in almost the same markings, but with errors from the first corrected. Nice change from the usual OG/DG/MSG ones. Red Roo has a conversion with the tropical filter and decals which I'm using.

 

/Finn 

[Railfan87]

8 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

I did an Academy Typhoon in the tropical trials scheme ... nice change from the usual OG/DG/MSG ones.

/Finn 

I'll be doing an Academy Tiffy in OG/DG/MSG with Canadian markings using the Aviaeology decals and bombs left over from an Eduard Spit, since our boys didn't fly with missiles.

It's second in queue right now.  I haven't built anything in a long time, so I picked up an Airfix Boulton Paul Defiant on sale as a practice kit.  I'll get on it as soon as Mrs. Me says we're finished renovating 🗓️

Chris

Edited March 4, 2021 by Railfan87

[RJP]

You will never be finished renovating.  Ask me how I know.😃

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Railfan87 said:

I'll be doing an Academy Tiffy in OG/DG/MSG with Canadian markings using the Aviaeology decals and bombs left over from an Eduard Spit, since our boys didn't fly with missiles.

It's second in queue right now.  I haven't built anything in a long time, so I picked up an Airfix Boulton Paul Defiant on sale as a practice kit.  I'll get on it as soon as Mrs. Me says we're finished renovating 🗓️

Chris

Ive built the BP Defiant very good kit. 

[Rabbit Leader]

I’m sure it was No. 451 Squadron and not 450, Dennis. Here is a good link for more information. 
Cheers and best of luck.. Dave 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

7 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

I’m sure it was No. 451 Squadron and not 450, Dennis. Here is a good link for more information. 
Cheers and best of luck.. Dave 

You're correct I found out about two hours ago while doing some digging. Off to change that now. 

[dogsbody]

19 hours ago, RJP said:

You will never be finished renovating.  Ask me how I know.😃

 

The crew will be here Monday morning to start tearing out the main bathroom, down to the wall studs and redoing it, as per Mrs. DB's direction.

I'll be staying as far away from it as possible!

 

 

 

 

Chris

[RJP]

Me too, hired a guy to do the bathroom and legged it until he was done.  Worked a treat.

 

I have since done the rest of the house myself including a kitchen gut and rebuild and still wouldn't try a bathtub installation myself.  Way too fraught.

[MDriskill]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:32 PM, dogsbody said:

From Warpaint # 5, The Hawker Typhoon:

 

 

 

 

I have to ask: why would you want such an old, crappy P.O.S. kit? I think I'd be more tempted to convert an Academy kit.

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

I was looking at this very question a few weeks back, and noticed an anomaly in the Warpaint drawings - the early ID stripes are not quite in the right place. It looks like the artist assumed the inboard edge of the ID stripes and later D-Day stripes was at the same spot, which is not correct.

 

As the caption notes, the Typhoon's black and white ID stripes were 12 and 24 inches wide, respectively. The outermost edge of the stripes aligns with the inboard end of the aileron. If you measure your way inward from there (the 7 stripes being 10 feet wide in total), the stripes end up much closer to the wing root, which I think you will find agrees with other references and photos (c.f. the "Camouflage and Markings" cover above!).

 

There was also an earlier brief period of time when the the Typhoon's underside ID markings consisted of the black stripes only, no white ones, but with a white nose.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected, per following posts the white nose and black underwing stripes did not exist simultaneously. At my age I should know better than to trust memory on such things!

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by MDriskill

[epozar]

5 hours ago, MDriskill said:

 

 

 

There was also an earlier brief period of time when the the Typhoon's underside ID markings consisted of the black stripes only, no white ones, but with a white nose.

Yes.. from the above mentioned book (but White nose and stripes not together?):

"The all-White cowling was introduced during November 1942, but was found to be too distinctive. Thus, from 5th December, 1942, orders were issued that the semi-experimental all-White paint was to be removed and replaced with Black stripes, each I2in. wide and 24in. apart positioned with the outboard band aligned against the inboard edge of the ailerons. As from 19th November, 1942, this order was further amended, calling for the area between the Black stripes to be painted White."

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by epozar

[Col Walter E Kurtz]

On 03/03/2021 at 22:09, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

        Hello everyone... Two quick question’s that cover some of Hawkers finest, particularly the Typhoons and Tempests. Now am I correct that these all pretty much stayed in the NWE theatre ? I know 451 Sq. Tested three in North Africa but I don't think any were operational in the N.A./Med. or SEA Theatre’s. I’ve got an old Frog car door Typhoon winging its way to me and was starting my research for this future build. 
       Second question concerns the underside I.D.striping, was it 3 black and 4 white stripes ? Or was it 3 white and 4 Black stripes ? I think the white bands were twice the width of the black ~vs~  the same size on the later D-Day stripes ? And last the lower cowling is also white but not the fuselage if I'm correct ? Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated ? 
 

Dennis

Hey Dennis..

https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/625102-hawker-typhoons-56-squadron.html

 

Some nice close up pics of Typhoons and stripes when with 56 Squadron on this thread here..  (i'm always going to be a 56 Squadron man as you know.. My uncle served with them  -2nd TAF in NW Europe in early 1945.) Hope this link helps even if it's not the squadron you're depicting?

 

Regards

Andy

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 minutes ago, Col Walter E Kurtz said:

Hey Dennis..

https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/625102-hawker-typhoons-56-squadron.html

 

Some nice close up pics of Typhoons and stripes when with 56 Squadron on this thread here..  (i'm always going to be a 56 Squadron man as you know.. My uncle served with them  -2nd TAF in NW Europe in early 1945.) Hope this link helps even if it's not the squadron you're depicting?

 

Regards

Andy

Hello Andy,

      Not quite sure which unit yet ? May go for a 56 Sq. as they were one of the early units to get them and did a lot of work on the I.D. Stripes. Ive found a couple possible choices and yes 451 Sq. is in there but #3 or 4 right now. I like the early test scheme with the all white nose. Ive also found an example from 183 Sq.. That one has a whole horizontal section on the sides of the cowling/fuselage in either white or NMF. 
 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/typhoon/typhoon-ib-183-during-exercise/

 

Dennis

[Col Walter E Kurtz]

1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello Andy,

      Not quite sure which unit yet ? May go for a 56 Sq. as they were one of the early units to get them and did a lot of work on the I.D. Stripes. Ive found a couple possible choices and yes 451 Sq. is in there but #3 or 4 right now. I like the early test scheme with the all white nose. Ive also found an example from 183 Sq.. That one has a whole horizontal section on the sides of the cowling/fuselage in either white or NMF. 
 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/typhoon/typhoon-ib-183-during-exercise/

 

Dennis

Excellent choice if you pick 183 or 56. The 183 has an unusual slant. Looking at the pic from the link.. to me,  it looks like the panel is NMF. Hard to tell really. 

Regards

Andy

[gingerbob]

9 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

That one has a whole horizontal section on the sides of the cowling/fuselage in either white or NMF. 

 

Exercise Spartan, March '43.  Should be white (both sides of nose), and the underside of the port wing is all black.

[Johnson]

On 3/3/2021 at 11:14 PM, Troy Smith said:

There was a great article by @Chris Thomas which was on the Airfix site, which I can't find, and someone recently had been removed, which is a really bad idea, as it provided a good overview of what changes occured with what serial block and dates....

 

I have this saved somewhere if you need it. 

I think that may have been me, asking about it, in another Typhoon or Tempest Thread. Someone referred to it but it had gone. If you have the article Troy I'd be most interested!

 

The car door Typhoon seems to be underrepresented in 1/72, so converting a suitable doner would seem the way to go. Having bought, and subsequently sold, the overpriced Pavla attempt, I'd certainly avoid that kit. I suppose it might provide some parts, but it would be an expensive way to go about it.

[Graham Boak]

Falcon do a car door Typhoon canopy and doors in their RAF fighters set.  I don't know whether it is/was available or not separately.

[FinnAndersen]

I used this canopy for my latest cardoor build: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRL72116?result-token=YDTpg

 

/Finn