PeterB Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) Hi. A couple of weeks back I mentioned that I was thinking of entering a Mig-17, but had a problem with decs. Well I have ordered a sheet but have yet to decide on exactly which version and country. This is the kit, an old KP one issued in 1974. Since then a number of other Mig-17 kits have been entered, but I guess that is hardly surprising as this plane, like the Mig-15 on which it is based, is robust, relatively easy to maintain being Low Tech, has a decent performance and was of course relatively cheap even when purchased new from the former Soviet Union, and even cheaper from Poland (Lim5 and Lim 6) or China (Shenyang F-5), not to mention second hand. In other words perfect for some of the smaller African countries. As you can see the kit is of the radar equipped PF version which only a few countries such as Egypt may have operated, the majority being the F version, but I happen to have bought an Aeroclub conversion set to backdate it if I so choose. Looks like I actually made a start on it in the past and have painted the cockpit tub and IP, but well under the 25% rule. The name "KP" or variations on it has been used by several companies over the years, but I suspect this is the original Kovozavody Prostejov (accents omitted) which I believe is Czech for Prostejov Metalworks, Prostejov being a town in Czechoslovakia. Although rather basic, the cockpit is certainly on a par with any Airfix offering of the same date, and the two Mig-19S kits of theirs that I have built were pretty good. They covered subjects not then readily available and they were cheap! I assume from the name that they decided to diversify from normal metal bashing into making metal injection moulds and thus kits. A quick bit of background seems appropriate. When the Mig-15 aka Fagot entered service in 1948 it was in most respects as good as if not better than all existing Western jet fighters, and when first encountered in the Korean War it came as quite a shock. However, according to my Aerofax book on the Mig-17, in early 1949 the Council of Ministers instructed the Mig Design Bureau (OKB-155) to start work on an improved version in two forms, a “normal” tactical fighter and a radar equipped all weather interceptor. This would eventually be the Mig-17 Nato name Fresco. Initially the only major difference was a new wing swept back at 45°at quarter chord rather than the 35° of the Mig-15and the new version was known as the Mig-15bis 45° - it was believed that this would improve the speed without the need for any more changes as the book says Stalin had stated he did not want another new plane. The new wing was stronger, had a larger area and introduced the “scimitar” shape though nowhere near as pronounced as that on the HP Victor, and I suspect that the kit has not quite got that right. Inevitably further changes crept in – larger airbrakes, the aft fuselage was lengthened by nearly 3 ft, and the vertical tail enlarged slightly, coupled with a new slightly larger horizontal tail swept 45°compared with the 40° of the Fagot, and a small ventral fin was introduced. Test flights started in January 1950 and after a few modifications it was found that the aircraft was superior to the Mig-15 in most respects, but then the first prototype crashed killing the pilot. Further testing showed that the horizontal tail could suffer from flutter causing it to break up so it was strengthened and State Acceptance trials began in spring 1951 and after problems with the guns were resolved by making the mountings more rigid, the aircraft was ordered into production in September of that year, but as the Mig-17 Nato name Fresco-A. More as and when I decide exactly which version I am building! Pete Edited March 3, 2021 by PeterB 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Welcome to the team, Pete ;). We nearly have a full squadron planned between us Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 While KP kits were simple they always seemed to give a good replica and without major issues. As you say they were on a par with Airfix at the time but with a different range of subjects. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Col. said: While KP kits were simple they always seemed to give a good replica and without major issues. As you say they were on a par with Airfix at the time but with a different range of subjects. I agree, Col. I've built only a few but the detail and accuracy is generally pretty good. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 Thanks guys, The notes with the Aeroclub conversion set say that the KP fuselage is "grossly" wrong and it is noticeable that their nose ring has a much smaller diameter than that in the kit. I will have to do a bit more research but I would have thought that both the F and PF used the same engine with afterburner, and that the major difference in the fuselage was limited to the radar nose in the PF. However, I have just looked at my second Aeroclub conversion for the PF and it does say that fuselage was fatter and longer! As the Aeroclub replacements are devoid of any detail I would prefer to use the kit one even if it is not entirely accurate, but we will see. As to the wing, I mentioned that it was a "Scimitar" shape in that the leading edge transitioned from the wide chord at the root to the narrower chord outboard in a shallow curve, whereas KP have done it as a straight line, but I may be able to improve on that. Aeroclub also say the horizontal tail need some work. The main problem is determining which countries in Africa actually had PF's - I believe Egypt had a few but getting details 'is not easy, I will wait and see what options are available on the decal sheet when it arrives. In the meantime I will continue my research. Cheers Pete 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Nice to see an old KP kit in the GB. They were the best if not only models of some Warsaw Pact/Soviet aircraft we could get back in day. I'm surprised that Aeroclub considered to be inaccurate. After all, KP could probably get hold of better information than us in the West (or could they?!) I do have one in the stash somewhere, it would be interesting to compare it to the new Airfix kit. Looking forward to seeing this one come together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Have you seen this review, Peter @PeterB? https://modelingmadness.com/scott/korean/rus/rf17pf.htm As far as I know Egypt didn't operate the PF. In fact I dont think any operated in Africa Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 Hi Martin, I am inclined to agree, but although the Aerofax book I am using as a source does not say Egypt had any, I does show one in the colour profiles! As a Soviet "client state" Egypt might have received them I suppose, but I doubt any other country did. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, PeterB said: Hi Martin, I am inclined to agree, but although the Aerofax book I am using as a source does not say Egypt had any, I does show one in the colour profiles! As a Soviet "client state" Egypt might have received them I suppose, but I doubt any other country did. Pete I reckon they mention Egypt from when it was part of the UAR. Does your reference show the UAR roundels? If that is the case you cold, I guess, count them as "African"... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 Interesting you should mention that Martin. The kit decals include an Egyptian one with the United Arab Republic stars but the one in the book has the normal Egyptian markings. Immediately underneath it is a Syrian one in UAR markings and I know they did have a few. Whether or not somebody has become confused I do not know as the one illustrated as Egyptian is not on their list of the few serials known. I am going to have to do quite a bit of work both on the wings and the horizontal tail which is far too wide, so I may as well change the nose back to an F if I can - in spite of what Aeroclub said the rest of the fuselage looks reasonably close to the scale plan I have printed out,. Of course that means that the Master probe and gun set I have is wrong as well as I will need to fabricate the long bulge and barrel of the Starboard 37mm cannon. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) I am beginning to have some doubts about finishing this kit. I have managed to open out the nose intake ring, and remove both the radar "bulges" - far from perfect but I can live with it. The wing is not that far out but could be a little tricky to fix. As to the horizontal tail - were they actually looking at a Mig-17 I wonder? Oh, well, I dare say it can be cut back and reshaped, All I can say it isd a good jpob it is going to be a camo finish not NMF! Incidentally, the link that Martin sent is interesting but the chap doing the review seems to have missed the fact that Hasegawa, as with their Mig 21, got the scale badly wrong - it is about 1/67 as I recall, and even though their wings might be bigger, their horizontal tailplanes were considerably smaller even in that scale. Cheers Pete Edited March 2, 2021 by PeterB 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 hours ago, PeterB said: I will need to fabricate the long bulge and barrel of the Starboard 37mm cannon. I do have a spare from my earlier abandoned build. You are welcome to it and other bits if they help. PM me. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Oh dear. It looks as if KP tooled up a set of tailplanes in 48th scale and forgot the other parts were 72nd scale 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 Whilst not in the same league as many of the other modellers, after over 60 years I have become quite good at bodging things together, and as Enzo has said in the past it is good to have a challenge every once in a while😄. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyOD Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Yikes. They are indeed a little bit over size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Actually they are as near as dammit 1/48 - good guess Col. Probably just a coincidence unless the designer was drinking/smoking something quite potent at the time as I don't believe KP made any 1/48 kits back then. By comparison the 1/67 Hasegawa stabs are just a couple or so mil oversize so would have been fine if the scale was correct. Fortunately Martin has kindly offered me some spare ones off an Airfix kit so with luck and a bit of bodging I should be able to fit them. I will get there in the end, though it may not be very accurate! Amazing what you can do with a bit of plastic card and filler if you have the inclination. One strange thing is that I have the 1979 KP Mig 15 and they got the tail right, so why they thought the tail on the 17 was so big is strange - it was only slightly larger than the 15 but then I suppose the 17 was released 5 years earlier. I must confess that this is one of those kits, like my recent Mig-19, Mig-21 and Su-9 where I would welcome the usual input from Serge @Aardvark, but he has been off the air for 3 months now, which is rather worrying. Hope he is OK! Pete Edited March 3, 2021 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) Martin @RidgeRunner has very kindy sent me the spare bits from his aborted first attempt at the Airfix Mig-17 so I have made a start on preparing them as the fitment is rather different to the kit one. I have sawn off the protruding front tab on the Airfix wings and faired in the gap where they mated with a projecting part of the leading edge moulded on to the fuselage. Once the Milliput is hard I will reprofile it. I have also filled in the slots in the kit fuselage for the wing and tailplane and will have a look at fitting some pins or something for the former. Once that is sorted out I can start assembling the kit. Meanwhile, to finish the story - Development of the tactical fighter version continued and the next model was the Mig-17SF (usually known as just the Mig-17F) Fresco-C with an afterburning version of the VK-1 engine called the VK-1F. The rear fuselage was cut back slightly exposing the new convergent/divergent exhaust nozzle and the airbrakes were repositioned and increased in size on late versions. Actual top speed was not really increased but acceleration, climb rate, ceiling and vertical manoeuvrability were at the expense of range which was slightly reduced. The F version was produced under licence as the Lim 5 and Lim 6 in Czechoslovakia and the Shenyang J-5 (F-5 when exported), in China. I mentioned earlier that Mig were told to build 2 versions, and the radar equipped one started off as the Mig-17P aka Fresco B. This had a RP-1 aka Izumrood -1 (Emerald-1) centimetric radar with the twin antennae mounted in a projecting lip at the top of the nose intake (search radar) and in a bullet shaped body on the intake splitter (tracking radar). It used the same non afterburning engine as the Fresco A and shared a cannon armament with it, but the later Mig-17 PF Fresco PF (Fresco D) had the upgraded engine of the Mig-17F together with the enlarged airbrakes. The final version was the Mig-17PFU (some sources say PM) Fresco E which had an improved version of the RP-1 radar to incorporate missile control, the guns were removed and up to 4 x K5 aka RS-1-U missiles known to Nato as the AA-1 Alkali were carried on wing pylons and rails. Cheers Pete Edited March 11, 2021 by PeterB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 Ok, I have mofified the wings, fitted pins and drilled out holes for the wings and tail - not perfect, but then it never was going to be and nothing a bit of filler can't fix. I have repainted the cockpit in a blue/grey, fitted it and the IP and added 6g of ballast so time to join up the fuselage. This is not going to be a particularly accurate build, but at least the wings and tailplane are now the correct shape and size, or thereabouts. I have also removed the kit gun fairings which were not right for the Fresco C and will replace them with the Airfix ones Martin kindly sent, plus a couple of Master gun barrels for the 23mm. Cheers Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 With careful glueing, taping and clamping the fuselage is not actually a bad fit. As you can see the nose ring needed a bit of filler as will the wings and tailplane, but it is not looking too bad so far. Pete 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 Interestingly, Airfix provided a pair of pylons with rocket pods but although they show the option of opening the holes in the wing, make no other mention of them. From what I have read it seems probable the Egyptian Air Force did not use them anyway so I won't bother. In the meantime can anybody confirm what colour the wheels wells would be - I believe Soviet ones were natural metal like the rest of the plane but the one I am building will be in camo with pale blue undersurfaces. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, PeterB said: Interestingly, Airfix provided a pair of pylons with rocket pods but although they show the option of opening the holes in the wing, make no other mention of them. From what I have read it seems probable the Egyptian Air Force did not use them anyway so I won't bother. In the meantime can anybody confirm what colour the wheels wells would be - I believe Soviet ones were natural metal like the rest of the plane but the one I am building will be in camo with pale blue undersurfaces. Cheers Pete I've always painted mine the same colour as you've used for your cockpit and no one has ever complained so I would go with that. Last time I googled for it that's the advice I found, alhough the colour apparently did vary slightly over time. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 I have made a start on the so called "Nile Delta" camo scheme - still needs a second coat and some touching up. The Xtradecal instructions call for "Sand Yellow, Olive Green and Black Green (RLM 70) and list their own equivalents but I do not have the first two, so I have used Colourcoats Russian "Yellow Grey", Humbrol Hu 86 Light Olive and also Hu 241 RLM 70 and am happy with the result. Some pics seem to show a lighter more blue green instead of the light olive but I can't find anything suitable. The underside light blue is still under consideration as "profiles" and photos vary - I suspect I will go with a version of RLM65 with a little white added. Makes a change from NMF anyway! Cheers Pete 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 12 hours ago, PeterB said: The Xtradecal instructions call for "Sand Yellow, Olive Green and Black Green (RLM 70) and list their own equivalents but I do not have the first two, so I have used Colourcoats Russian "Yellow Grey", Humbrol Hu 86 Light Olive and also Hu 241 RLM 70 and am happy with the result. She looks great to me, Peter! I fancy doing a Nile Delta scheme Fresco, maybe an Algerian. One day ...... . All those bits seem to have worked a treat! Martin 12 hours ago, PeterB said: Makes a change from NMF anyway! Absolutely! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 Bit more progress. Some tidying up to do but nearly ready to varnish and put the decs on. Pete 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) Well all the bits are on as are the decals. All it needs now is a finishing coat of varnish. I thought the Xtradecals instructions showing what seemed to be a white radio aerial were probably wrong but I have found a colour photo of this plane (as no doubt did Hannants) and it seems that at least some Egyptian Mig-17 did indeed have that, though I have no idea why, Others seem to be in camo colour as you would probably expect. I have used the Master cannon barrels on the 23mm guns, but as the set I bought was for the PF version it does not have a 37mm barrel - the Airfix one will do as will the pitot tubes - had I been using the original ones from the KP kit I would have replaced them as they are rather thick. According to the Xtradecal sheet this is Fresco C "2975" in 1973. Now, as I am about to start building a load of tanks in the Western Desert, I can make a start on Monty's Caravan as I will have the paints to hand. Cheers Pete Edited March 20, 2021 by PeterB 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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