Metal camouflage mottle mask query

[Spitfires Forever]

Greetings,

I was wondering if it is worth purchasing the Airwaves metal camouflage mottling stencils. As we all know the Luftwaffe camouflage patterns can be very challenging for we less than expert airbrush users. Anybody use these before, and as they worth the expense? Any advice will be helpful.

Cheers

[top turret toddler]

It doesn`t hurt to put a link to the item you are considering buying. There are many different stencils out there and they all have their uses. Let`s face it, the expense you`re looking at isn`t exactly gonna put you out of business now is it? I say buy & try, see for yourself. There is no real consensus on Luftwaffe mottling techniques. 

[Duncan B]

I have a set of them but have only used them on a couple of occasions. The problem with them is getting them into position (I have the 1/72 scale version) and keeping them there as they won't conform around the wing roots or any other complex curves. You can only replicate one particular mottle pattern with them which is actually quite a dense mottle so not too useful. I found it more frustrating than just learning to paint the mottles freehand.

If you want to paint the mottles using masks I would suggest cutting out paper or card ones that you can cut to fit in place on your kit, or grow a third hand so you can hold the airbrush, the model and the stencil at the same time.

 

Duncan B

[alt-92]

24 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

or grow a third hand so you can hold the airbrush, the model and the stencil at the same time.

Or maybe a model (rigging) stand/jig that you can place on a turntable in the spraybooth. 

 

[ckw]

I agree with Duncan - they are OK for a large flat surface, but as soon as curves (fuselage) or angles (wing roots) come into play they are, to be blunt, useless. Furthermore, because they are metal with quite sharp edges there is a very good chance of scratching completed paintwork or even the underlying plastic.

 

Possible alternatives in addition to Duncan's suggestions are

 

•  use little blobs of blu-tak as a mask and apply the scheme in reverse (i.e paint the mottle color first, then add the blu-tak blobs to mask the mottle, then apply the base color). Tedious but fairly foolproof. 
• apply pastels by brush. I haven't tried this myself, but have seen some pretty imressive results 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

[Duncan B]

4 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Or maybe a model (rigging) stand/jig that you can place on a turntable in the spraybooth. 

 

Yes, that helps with the holding but you still have to get the stencil to conform to your model close and even enough that all the mottles have a similar appearance. As most of the mottling on a WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft is on the side of the fuselage it is almost impossible (for me) to get the stencil positioned to my satisfaction without damaging the surrounding paintwork. In 1/72 scale I gave up with the metal stencil without having ever successfully completed one paint job.

 

Duncan B

[Graham Boak]

It might be better to buy a cheap model to act as a paint mule to try out various approaches - start with a piece of flat plasticard if you like but a model will give you a wider range of shapes.  None of us begin with a god-given ability to produce mottle effects, but we all get better with practice and checking how other people manage it.

[alt-92]

2 hours ago, Duncan B said:

In 1/72 scale I gave up with the metal stencil without having ever successfully completed one paint job.

I did find a paper/cardboard stencil somewhere, that would make it easier.

[top turret toddler]

Depending on what airbrush you are using, a stencil could prove useful. If you do not have a very fine tip airbrush able to pull off this kind of detail artwork, a stencil can help you get the result you are looking for. When used right, i do not agree the stencil is problematic to get into the right spot, this is all up to the individual users finesse and handling. Also mentioning scale is of interest which you are not doing. The Airvawes item in question does come in both 48 & 72 scale. 

[Duncan B]

18 hours ago, top turret toddler said:

Depending on what airbrush you are using, a stencil could prove useful. If you do not have a very fine tip airbrush able to pull off this kind of detail artwork, a stencil can help you get the result you are looking for. When used right, i do not agree the stencil is problematic to get into the right spot, this is all up to the individual users finesse and handling. Also mentioning scale is of interest which you are not doing. The Airwaves item in question does come in both 48 & 72 scale. 

I agree with you that stencils in general are very useful however with regards to the individual's handling you can have the dexterity of a Brain Surgeon and you will still not be able to get the edge of the Airwaves metal stencil far enough down the side of a 1/72 scale Bf109 fuselage (I use this example as that's what I was trying to us e it on) to get the mottles all the way to the wing fillet. On a flat surface it works well but when faced with any complex curves and/or structural elements it does not have the flexibility to conform to the shapes and the edge of it will damage the underlying paintwork.

To answer the OP's question, (in my experience of them) no the Airwaves metal stencil is not worth the money and I would suggest vinyl or tape masks are far more useful and user friendly than the Airwaves photo-etch stencil, particularly for 1/72 scale. 

 

Duncan B

[Werdna]

I agree that stencils are probably not the way forward.  I did look at them when I started mottling with an airbrush, but I discounted them for the same reasons as Duncan, above.  To be honest, I feel it's much more rewarding just to practice, find what works for you (ie paint mix, pressure, distance from surface, etc) and learn to apply them freehand.  Obviously that's easy to say, but I think it will be preferable in the long run.  My first few attempts were a total mess, and I still have a few practice runs before I start a new mottling scheme, but it does improve..  

 

 

[Spitfires Forever]

Thanks for the info gentlemen. I would have to agree that getting the metal mask to conform to curved surfaces would be quite a challenge but some of the suggestions put forth are intriguing and will be tried. I have an Iwata airbrush that can get a very fine spray pattern so maybe I just need to "man up" and just experiment with the mottling technique. Just trying to find an easy way out I guess 

Cheers

Edited March 3, 2021 by Spitfires Forever
Spelling

[top turret toddler]

16 hours ago, Duncan B said:

I agree with you that stencils in general are very useful however with regards to the individual's handling you can have the dexterity of a Brain Surgeon and you will still not be able to get the edge of the Airwaves metal stencil far enough down the side of a 1/72 scale Bf109 fuselage (I use this example as that's what I was trying to us e it on) to get the mottles all the way to the wing fillet. On a flat surface it works well but when faced with any complex curves and/or structural elements it does not have the flexibility to conform to the shapes and the edge of it will damage the underlying paintwork.

To answer the OP's question, (in my experience of them) no the Airwaves metal stencil is not worth the money and I would suggest vinyl or tape masks are far more useful and user friendly than the Airwaves photo-etch stencil, particularly for 1/72 scale. 

 

Duncan B

 

You can easily cut the metal stencil into smaller pieces with a scissor and use scotch tape around the edges. Not rocket science. As long as you preserve the camo shapes i say you are good to go.

[ckw]

6 hours ago, top turret toddler said:

 

You can easily cut the metal stencil into smaller pieces with a scissor and use scotch tape around the edges. Not rocket science. As long as you preserve the camo shapes i say you are good to go.

Yes, but these would have to be very small pieces to work at 1/72. Which would mean having to mask up the area around the stencil. Wait for the sprayed bit to dry. Remask, move to next section. Besides that, to get consistent mottling you need to a) spray at 90 degrees to the mask b) the mask has to be at a constant distance from the surface. Possible on flat surfaces but challenging on a curved fuselage side. 

 

I'm sure someone has done it, but there are easier ways. I suspect someone at Airways thought 'what can we do with all this spare metal sheet?' There are plenty of things sold to modellers that look good in theory but turn out to be on a scale of not so good to useless in practice.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Graham Boak]

What you say is sensible, but "to get consistent mottling" wouldn't necessarily be an aim of the original painter, which wouldn't make it an aim for the modeller.  With a good setup it would be possible to move the stencil and the airbrush so as to get whatever effect looks satisfactory.  Which is not to say learning to get the effect you want by freehand wouldn't be a superior solution, certainly in the long run, but I suspect "not so good" is likelier than "useless". 

[Duncan B]

11 hours ago, ckw said:

Yes, but these would have to be very small pieces to work at 1/72. Which would mean having to mask up the area around the stencil. Wait for the sprayed bit to dry. Remask, move to next section. Besides that, to get consistent mottling you need to a) spray at 90 degrees to the mask b) the mask has to be at a constant distance from the surface. Possible on flat surfaces but challenging on a curved fuselage side. 

 

I'm sure someone has done it, but there are easier ways. I suspect someone at Airways thought 'what can we do with all this spare metal sheet?' There are plenty of things sold to modellers that look good in theory but turn out to be on a scale of not so good to useless in practice.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

Exactly

 

Duncan B

[Chuck1945]

Just to echo what most everyone has said here; I got those in 1/72 many years ago  and quickly discovered the need for a third hand (minimum) to use. Haven’t tried them since. I freehand any mottle and it is sort of an impressionist approach instead of attempting an exact reproduction 😛

[thorfinn]

On 3/2/2021 at 4:20 AM, Duncan B said:

If you want to paint the mottles using masks I would suggest cutting out paper or card ones that you can cut to fit in place on your kit, or grow a third hand so you can hold the airbrush, the model and the stencil at the same time.

Heartily agree. Ten minutes or so with a hobby knife and something like a 3x5 notecard (or an old greeting card) may produce something far more versatile...and much easier to use...than a metal version.

I did quite a few of these 'back in the day' with my first AB version, an old Badger single-action. Not so much since I moved up to double-action versions...mostly freehand now...but I'll still occasionally cut a mask for an odd pattern or a difficult-to-reach location. Saves a lot of time and frustration!

[top turret toddler]

Not really off topic but there are other Luftwaffe templates out there other than the old Airwaves one. I am sure this one will combat anyone who is unable to bend the heavy metal one into submission. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Alliance-Model-Works-1-72-Messerschmitt-Bf-109-E-7-Tropical-Camo-Set-1-AW008/121514724776?hash=item1c4ad78da8:g:d1gAAOSwySVaKM2B

[LiamA]

Useful info thanks.

[TISO]

Another bit of info this Polish company produces flexible plastic mottle masks:

https://syndikateco.wixsite.com/my-site-1