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G'day Martian,

 

You are at about the same stage as me (minus the internal detail of cpourse) so it will be interesting to see what your rigging arrangement will be, there seem to be many different hypothewtical arrangements. I concur ref the pic size, bigger wpuld be better. One further question, what are you using for the 'deadlights' - it looks to be a bettwer solution than the openings provided in the kit.

 

I wnet with the kit spar, luckily mine was not bent and it looks good enough,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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1 hour ago, Pappy said:

G'day Martian,

 

You are at about the same stage as me (minus the internal detail of cpourse) so it will be interesting to see what your rigging arrangement will be, there seem to be many different hypothewtical arrangements. I concur ref the pic size, bigger wpuld be better. One further question, what are you using for the 'deadlights' - it looks to be a bettwer solution than the openings provided in the kit.

 

I wnet with the kit spar, luckily mine was not bent and it looks good enough,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

I will try the larger pictures out on the next update but may have to revert to the current size. There was something or other a few years back about not doing pictures too large.

 

I had a cunning plan for the deadlights. As I like my models to be presented in a shipbuilders' model style, I wanted to show the dead lights in brass. I drilled out the openings to 3mm and glued short lengths of brass tubing into the resulting holes. After the model is painted, I will carefully sand the paint off of the deadlight frames to reveal the brass. I will most likely use Clear Fix for the glazing although it looks like the kit clear plastic parts might fit. We shall see.

 

Martian 👽

 

 

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I think we will start this update with a heads up for those who, like @Pappy are building this kit. The kit as supplied, shows the submarine as it appears today with a gracefully arched bow. There is now a school of thought that the vessel had a straight bow and that the current shape is a result of ocean currents abrading it away. The Conrad Wise Chapman painting is not much help here as, although it has been shown to be the most accurate record of the vessel we have, it depicts the submarine from the port quarter and we cannot get a decent view of the bow. I need to do some hard thinking here before I go charging in like a Vogon at the Planet Earth and making irrevocable changes to the model. The thing that gives me pause is that the Hunley must have been quickly buried  in sediment, given the depth under the sea bed (four feet) that it was discovered and the fact that it filled with sediment quickly enough for soft tissue of the crews bodies to have been preserved rather than being eaten by marine life. No crab shells at all were discovered when the interior of the submarine was excavated and the crew's remains were all discovered at their stations rather than smaller bones being moved to other parts of the boat. A bit gruesome I know but a relevant factor when considering the abrasion theory. Any experts out there on the continued abrasion of objects once they have been covered by silt who might be able supply further enlightenment? The work to change the bow is pretty easy so, in this case, that is not a consideration whether to reconstruct the bow or not. We just have an indecisive alien who can't make up his mind. :unsure:

 

One of the references I am using and one that I would recommend to anyone wanting to build a model of this subject is, "Sea of Darkness: Unraveling the Mysteries of the H.L. Hunley" by Brian Hicks (ISBN 1938170601, 9781938170607). This 512 page book is a very good read and provides a great deal of very valuable information on the subject. I have one reservation, in that the captioning for some of the photographs can be a tad misleading. An example of this is a caption that says that the charge for the spar torpedo was bolted directly to the spar and was detonated by a contact fuse. The actual text in the book demonstrates that the effects of blast underwater were well known at the time and that to have been twenty feet away from a blast powerful enough to blow a hole in a large warship and sink her, would have been suicide: we want our submarine and its highly trained crew to return for further missions right? This threw me into a flat spin as it just did not make sense. Further research turned up a description as to haw the torpedo actually worked. The charge was bolted to a metal sleeve that was then fitted over the end of the actual spar. A copper shim was then wedged in place to give a friction joint to stop the charge falling off of the spar. When the charge had been driven into the target's hull, the submarine would go into reverse. this would be enough to dislodge the shim and thus free the charge from the spar. The detonating cord would then pay out until it had reached its limit and would then, the sub by now being at a safe distance, pull a trigger on the charge, setting off the explosion. Clearly, something went wrong, causing the charge to go off either on contact with the Housatonic or as the Hunley began to back away from her prey. The only bit I am unsure of is the shape of the barb on the end of the charge. It could be harpoon like, as Mikro-Mir depict it in the kit, or, as I have seen in a few artist's impressions, more of a large arrowhead arrangement. Discuss.

 

On to work on the model. I have been working on the snorkel arrangement that the boat had and have decided that I will have it in the raised position. The kit parts are OK but I decided that some brass pipes would both look better and be stronger. I have also fitted the conning tower hatches with their hinges and deadlights. I have not yet decided whether to have the hatches open or closed as, being a cut away model, it makes little difference to the amount of detail that will be seen on the completed model. The hatches in the photographs are just tacked in place with a couple of drops of PVA. The spool for the firing cord for the spar torpedo has also been fitted and a small hole drilled into t to take the detonating cord when I come to rig the model. The kit parts are fine to use for this feature this once they have been cleaned up. I think I will be working on the mechanism for the hydroplanes next and probably the bench seat for the commander. We know that he was seated as Lieutenant Dixon's remains were discovered in a sitting position. The cut away models that I have seen on line show a bench rather than a stand alone seat, so that is what I will be going with.

 

I have been giving some further thought to displaying the model and to this end have purchased ICM's set of Confederate Infantry the one in the pictures is the one that I think is most likely to be accurate for the time and place but I may go for a figure that represents most people's idea of a Confederate soldier the most closely. I have a book on the way on period uniforms for South Carolina which will most likely drive my decision here. I think a figure of some sort to give scale to the model is more important than ever in this case, in order to show just how cramped the interior of the vessel was.

 

Enough waffle and lets have some pictures, I have posted these at actual size, in response to @longshanksrequest for larger pictures. Thanks for looking.

 

Martian 👽

 

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Seeing the size of that figure, I don't think "cramped" is quite adequate!

The crew were extremely brave men, no question!

 

Ian

 

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8 minutes ago, Brandy said:

Seeing the size of that figure, I don't think "cramped" is quite adequate!

The crew were extremely brave men, no question!

 

Ian

 

Indeed. The final crew were very well trained and all volunteers. I think the deal breaker for me would have been those open topped ballast tanks that could overflow into the crew compartment! Why on earth would you design them like that? The rest of the submarine was so well thought out.

 

Martian 👽

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1 hour ago, longshanks said:

Very interesting and so much better being able to see what's happening. Thank you 🙂

A figure giving scale is only going to add to your presentation

 

Stay safe

 

Kev

Thanks Kev. I forgot to add that the spar for the torpedo turns out to have been metal, not wood as many sources would have us believe. We can be sure of this as the spar was discovered, raised and sent for conservation along with the Hunley.

 

Martian 👽

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Great progress Martian and some interesting points raised.

 

When I first looked at the kit I did wonder about the scalloped bow shape but I also did not know much about the boat in general so I assumed that it was more or less correct and there was not a lot of chatter about an incorrect shape in any of the reviews that I had read however, it seems to me that many 'reviews' don't seem that well researched (at least on subjects I am familiar with) so I always take reviews with a  generous pinch of salt!

 

Anyhow I digress, getting back to the bow, a straight bow would certainly make sense and make for easier construction but as you say, the Hunley was discovered buried in mud which fortunately ended up preserving much of the wreck. I could accept that the bow had deformed upon impact with the sea bed but this would crease the metal and there does not seem to be evidence of this. The discovery of the remains at their stations would indicate that the event(s) that doomed the boat were sudden and unexpected. There is now an alternate theory that the sinking was  due to strong currents but the proximity to the blast remains the most plausible.

 

The deadlights look really excellent Martian.

 

If you don't mind, I will add a few pics of where I have gotten up to,

 

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I just used the kit supplied items but I did replace the snorkel tubes, in my case using aluminium tubing, I used aluminum tape to represent the brackets that attached the upper spar to the bow

 

004(1).JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bo

 

As mentioned earlier, I was happy to use the kit items to represent the spar torpedo as they were not warped. I opted not to use the two PE brackets to mount the charge to the spar as it looked fiddly and unconvincing. As there is no hard evidence to say what is accurate, I went with a little artistic license

 

009(63).JPG


008(63).JPG

 

I do not wish to cause offence so if the inclusion of these pics is a problem I can remove them if you wish as I do not wish to take over your excellent thread

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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12 minutes ago, Pappy said:

Great progress Martian and some interesting points raised.

 

When I first looked at the kit I did wonder about the scalloped bow shape but I also did not know much about the boat in general so I assumed that it was more or less correct and there was not a lot of chatter about an incorrect shape in any of the reviews that I had read however, it seems to me that many 'reviews' don't seem that well researched (at least on subjects I am familiar with) so I always take reviews with a  generous pinch of salt!

 

Anyhow I digress, getting back to the bow, a straight bow would certainly make sense and make for easier construction but as you say, the Hunley was discovered buried in mud which fortunately ended up preserving much of the wreck. I could accept that the bow had deformed upon impact with the sea bed but this would crease the metal and there does not seem to be evidence of this. The discovery of the remains at their stations would indicate that the event(s) that doomed the boat were sudden and unexpected. There is now an alternate theory that the sinking was  due to strong currents but the proximity to the blast remains the most plausible.

 

The deadlights look really excellent Martian.

 

If you don't mind, I will add a few pics of where I have gotten up to,

 

009(3).JPG

 

006(1).JPG

 

I just used the kit supplied items but I did replace the snorkel tubes, in my case using aluminium tubing, I used aluminum tape to represent the brackets that attached the upper spar to the bow

 

004(1).JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bo

 

As mentioned earlier, I was happy to used the kit items to represent the spar torpedo as they were not warped. I opted not to use the two PE brackets to mount the charge to the spar as it looked fiddly and unconvincing. As there is no hard evidence to say what is accurate, I went with a little artistic license

 

009(63).JPG


008(63).JPG

 

I do not wish to cause offence so if the inclusion of these pics is a problem I can remove them if you wish as I do not wish to take over your excellent thread

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

No offence taken at all Pappy. I always like to see other people's take on a subject I am modelling. Nice work.

 

Martian 👽

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Cheers Martian,

 

I was just going to post completed build pictures as when I started the kit I thought it was just going to be a straightforward build, essentially just a tube with a a few extra bits tacked on but as we are both discovering the reality is (usually) far more complex and interesting and I have not done nearly as much research as you so I am happy to leverage off your knowledge!

 

I was intending to just punch out some acetate discs for the deadlights but I like your approach better so will look at my options again. I also found that in cleaning up the upper hull seam I managed to sand off most of the raised rivets so several enjoyable hours of punching out discs was required to restore the details followed, I can see that in your future as well. Finally, I replaced the the small, fixed triangular fillets ahead of the dive planes with plastic card as the kit supplied items are too thick to look convincing,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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Pappy, I used 3mm outside diameter Albion Alloys brass tubing for the dead lights. If you have trouble getting hold of any, let me know. I am close friend of one of the directors and will let him know.

 

Martian 👽

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Cheers Martian,

 

I should be able to source in Oz, I will let you know if I get stuck but should be okay. if it keeps raining the way it has been, I may well need a submarine soon!

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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17 hours ago, Pappy said:

I also found that in cleaning up the upper hull seam I managed to sand off most of the raised rivets so several enjoyable hours of punching out discs was required to restore the details followed, I can see that in your future as well. Finally, I replaced the the small, fixed triangular fillets ahead of the dive planes with plastic card as the kit supplied items are too thick to look convincing,

 

That's what rivet decals are for! Actually, you probably went about it in the right way as the rivets were purposely flattened as much as possible. No matter, as @Navy Bird will attest, you can never have too much styrene on a model. On the quiet, the word is that he sleeps with his stock of Evergreen.

 

Anyway, I think its time we had an update:

 

Yesterday I took delivery of some high quality soldering equipment which has allowed me to make some of the parts for the submarine in the way that I really wanted to. The problem was that my soldering irons were designed for spot welding things like electrical connections and in my ignorance I was trying to do fine detail work with them. As a result my success rate was pretty low. At this point my Fairy Godmother (or should that be Fairey?) in the form of @Heather Kay rode over the horizon with all sorts of sage advice regarding the sort of gear I needed, the importance of keeping my tip clean! (Ooh Matron!) and pointed me in the direction of a very helpful gentleman at a company called Hobby Holidays who took the time to find out what I was trying to do so I would end up buying the correct equipment. As well as having reached the dizzying heights of "Usual Suspect" at the last Scale Modelworld, Heather has now been awarded the prestigious title of BM Wise Woman. Although I have a long way to go and a lot to learn about soldering, all bar one of my efforts this afternoon were successful.

 

Anyway, this afternoon I managed to solder up the connecting bar for the hydroplanes and replaced the tiller. I made brass sockets for the hydroplane lever and the tiller, fashioned the levers from cocktail sticks and added a brass finial on their tips. I shall keep them in the natural wood and brass. Sadly the connecting bar will have to be painted as I suspect it was made from some sort of steel or iron.

 

I have cleaned up the hydroplanes and have dry fitted them to the connecting bar. I managed to thin down the triangular fillets in front of the hydroplanes and glued them to the model.

 

I need to be thinking about making a box compass for the commander's position, I do have a plan in mind for that. Making a barometer, it was used as a primitive depth gauge, might require a bit more creative thinking though. This is of course, Martian Speak for "He has no idea yet as to how this is to be accomplished". Still, when did that ever stop me putting best tentacle forward and stepping right in the proverbial?

 

What was that? Oh, you want pictures as well? Go on then and thanks for looking.

 

Martian 👽

 

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I had no idea there were different types of soldering iron. The last one I bought (X-tronic 3020) failed after its first use and since the warranty was only valid in the USA I now have an expensive desk ornament!

Still trying to decide what to replace it with.

 

Ian

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Excellent workmanship Mr. Tentacled One! I gave up soldering after numerous attempts resulted in the burn ward, so I am very impressed with your results.     👍

 

And to clarify the matter, MRS. Navy Bird sleeps with the Evergreen under her pillow. It's the only way she can keep it away from me so I don't stay up all night. She relinquishes control each morning.    :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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12 hours ago, Brandy said:

I had no idea there were different types of soldering iron. The last one I bought (X-tronic 3020) failed after its first use and since the warranty was only valid in the USA I now have an expensive desk ornament!

Still trying to decide what to replace it with.

 

Ian

Nor did I Ian before I consulted the Wise Woman. I suggest you contact the guys at Hobby Holidays:  http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/categories.php?cat=37  I started talking about what I thought I needed and the chap stopped me and said we needed to talk about what I wanted to do first and then he could recommend a range of options. He didn't push the top of the range model and presented a range of tools to suit all pockets. I chose the top of the line model because if modelling has taught me anything, it is to buy the best tools for a job you can afford.

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

Excellent workmanship Mr. Tentacled One! I gave up soldering after numerous attempts resulted in the burn ward, so I am very impressed with your results.     👍

 

And to clarify the matter, MRS. Navy Bird sleeps with the Evergreen under her pillow. It's the only way she can keep it away from me so I don't stay up all night. She relinquishes control each morning.    :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

So Mrs Navy Bird feels threatened by the styrene stash! Its worse than we thought, even Mrs Martian doesn't go quite that far, although she did mutter something about not granting me a divorce so I can marry my stash of Contrail  kits.

 

Martian 👽

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On 21/03/2021 at 21:28, Pappy said:

Wow, now in extremovision!

 

Great progress Martian, all is looking very nautical,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Thanks Pappy, Mrs Martian who did the pictures due to my camera dying thanks you as well.

 

Martian 👽

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4 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Wow - super stuff and going back a few posts, that figure really does give some necessary perspective to the size!

Top Red World stuff B)

Rob

Thanks Rob, I still find it hard to accept that you could get eight blokes into this thing To think I started this build to get away from fiddling about with the cramped insides of spacecraft!. I am beginning to agree with Mrs Martian when she says that I should not be let out of bed, let alone out of the house.

 

Martian 👽

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The new camera arrived this morning and having got it charged up, I am mostly operational again. I still have to learn to drive the new camera but as it is an upgraded version of my previous one, and uses the same software, that shouldn't take too long.

 

On to the build. I had been struggling to think how I could replicate the propeller guard on the model as nothing I could find around the house was of the correct diameter or if I could it was not something that I could wrap the brass parts in the kit around and then anneal the metal. I was talking about this on the phone to a good friend and he said "send me the dimensions and I will knock out a 3D printed one". I had no idea that you could print something of the required thinness, shows how much I know!

 

The printed part duly arrived and fitted the rudder assembly like a glove. I did have to add a .10 'thou shim on the lower rudder post but this was where I had been a bit over enthusiastic then I was cleaning the part up. However, the kit propeller was still considerably wider than the propeller guard and this was after I had reduced its diameter. I could have asked my friend to print a larger propeller guard but then I would have to rebuild the entire rudder assembly. However, I have never been entirely happy with the kit parts for the propeller and suspect I never will be, so I followed the advice that I so often give to others: "if something is spoiling your enjoyment of a model, replace it.".  Accordingly, the brass blades were stripped from the kit hub, it was out plastic card time and before I knew it, I had carved myself a new set of nashers with my mighty cleaver. Sorry, as you were, that was McAdder!  :doh: I meant of course, a new set of propeller blades with my not so mighty scalpel. I think I need to sand a smidgen off one of the blades but otherwise, things now look a lot better and to my eye at least, closer to what is left of the assembly on the real submarine. Hopefully, I should be able to work on the crank to propeller shaft drive train over the net few days. That however is down to Royal Fail delivering a much needed part.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Martian 👽

 

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035.jpg

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