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Conversion of F4 Phantom II


Zorglub

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Hello,
I would like to know what modifications would be needed to a Phantom II F4-E early to make a:  F4-E ( late) or F4-F ?
 

I allready have a 1/72 F4-E "Thunderbirds " from Fujimi ( I suppose it's the early variant of the "E" without gun , am I right ? )

 

 

I can use or duplicate some parts from my stash, can I use some of these parts bellow ?

*  The elevators (I don't know the technical term) are they the same .

   I have those of  the F4 E/F/G old Italeri ( raised panel to rescribe )

                           of the F4 E "Thunderbirds" Fujimi ( seems to be diiferent from the Italeri's )


*  The wing slat? ( correct word ?  ) of an Esci for the slat wings ( slat ...slot wings, i'm lost: don't know the right word  ) 


* I also have spare parts for the nose barrel and nozzles ( Italeri/ Esci/Fujimi ).

 

* For the wingtips, if I trust the F4-E "Thunderbirds" from Fujimi it is "simple" and different from the F/E ( E) versions".

 

Either I modify the Fujimi kit in my stock or it will be the one from Fine Molds ( i've ordered an E/J Kaï  & an E )


I have the project to make a least one ( or 2 )  F4-E of Aerial Greek Forces commemoration ( 338 / 339 ) and may be a German F4-F

 

Do these parts correspond to the changes to be made, or am I confused? Are there any other differences, if so, what are they?

Thank you for your advice

 


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Edited by Zorglub
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For the Greek builds,

 

late style gun muzzle( early gun muzzle was angled backwards about 45deg)

 

slatted wings ( easy identification is the 3 bulges under the wing in a line parallel to the leading wing edge)

 

slotted rear stabilisers

 

long exhausts

 

Some Greek F-4s had the DIAS missile warning system installed which consisted of fairings on each intake side, top of tail, on lower gun barrel housing and on the parabrake door.

 

Greek F-4’s then went through the AUP upgrade, which added 4 IFF bird slicer antennas in front of windscreen, everything else was internal. 

 

338M  Black/Yellow tail special was DIAS equipped 

339M Blue/Gold special was not DIAS equipped 

 

I have photos of both, but unable to post from phone, if you want I can send some when I get home from work later?

 

 

Edited by scotthldr
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For a late F-4E, the correct gun nozzle is included with the Fujimi Thunderbird box - use part 49 instead of 50 for the gun fairing. The slotted Fujimi stabs are fine as is. as are the wing tips. 

 

DIAS fairings, if the Greek Phantoim you're building had them,  are included with every new tool Hasegawa Phantom kit, I could send you a set. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

 

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3 hours ago, scotthldr said:

For the Greek builds,

 

late style gun muzzle( early gun muzzle was angled backwards about 45deg)

 

slatted wings ( easy identification is the 3 bulges under the wing in a line parallel to the leading wing edge)

 

slotted rear stabilisers

 

long exhausts

 

Some Greek F-4s had the DIAS missile warning system installed which consisted of fairings on each intake side, top of tail, on lower gun barrel housing and on the parabrake door.

 

Greek F-4’s then went through the AUP upgrade, which added 4 IFF bird slicer antennas in front of windscreen, everything else was internal. 

 

338M  Black/Yellow tail special was DIAS equipped 

339M Blue/Gold special was not DIAS equipped 

 

I have photos of both, but unable to post from phone, if you want I can send some when I get home from work later?

 

 

Oh Thank you.

 

I'm looking for the 339 with Ajax on the tail for the 65th birthday. i do like the tail paint

About the 338 , i'm not sure if i'll keep same year: i've not still found pics about same year.

So i'll probably go with another year, with Ajax on the tail  but it wont well matching... 

 

By the way, on the intrados i've found some pics showing a kind of a flat antenna lookin like this    \_________/  : this is on all hellenic F4-E ?

 

Yes, if you have some pics or links, i'll keep it with pleasure.

 

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2 hours ago, Hook said:

For a late F-4E, the correct gun nozzle is included with the Fujimi Thunderbird box - use part 49 instead of 50 for the gun fairing. The slotted Fujimi stabs are fine as is. as are the wing tips. 

 

DIAS fairings, if the Greek Phantoim you're building had them,  are included with every new tool Hasegawa Phantom kit, I could send you a set. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

 

 

Thank you a lot.

Please forgive me, but what are the DIAS fairings ? the 4 four little parts on the nose  ( like those on the japanese F4 E/J ) ?

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@Zorglub the DIAS fairing are on the shoulders of the intakes. If you look for pictures of US Navy F-4Ns and F-4J later models) you will be able to see them. The Greek a/c which had these fairings were generally painted in the Mirage F-1 scheme of medium blue uppersides and silver undersides - if you want more detail let me know.

 

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@lainpeden : thank you! i've noticed that there was DIAS on one of those 2 hellenics F4-E

This is the long horizontal thing with black on the intake ?

49305016577_b9507b29c2_z.jpg01507 F-4E AUP Phantom II | EHVK/UDE | 14.06.2019 by Adrian Stürmer, on Flickr ( sharing opt )

 

Well, i don't think i've in my stash this piece/part. Another challenge 😀.

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Yes that is one of the DIAS antennas(same on other side), the small triangle under the gun is another, along with the fairing near the top of the tail. There is another one that you can’t see in the photo, which is fitted into the brake parachute door.

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2 hours ago, Zorglub said:

 

 

By the way, on the intrados i've found some pics showing a kind of a flat antenna lookin like this    \_________/  : this is on all hellenic F4-E ?

 

 

Sorry I’m not understanding, whereabouts on the a/c is this antenna?

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@Zorglub could I suggest you pause for a while and decide which aircraft and which nationality you actually want to make; that would allow those of us obsessed with the F-4 to help.

 

A few points.

The slats were added to the E model to improve manoeuvring; some E models were built with them but early models had them added during a major upgrade. Most Es which were sold to non-US users were slatted - exceptions include early Israeli and possibly early Iranian aircraft.

The Es used by the Thunderbirds were not upgraded with the slats and were used on test programs.

US Navy and USMC S models were updated Js -the upgrade included slats being fitted.

 

The slots you mention are on the tailplanes (called stabilators by the Americans) and were added to help control rotation during take off - essentially they are a metal strip welded on to the front of the tailplane - consequently the area of the slotted tailplane is larger than the unslotted ones.

 

The aircraft have obviously been in service for a long time and have undergone lots of upgrades with different aerials added.

 

The shoulder mounted aerials/antennae are easy to make with some stretched sprue.

 

Italeri have just reboxed the old Esci F-4E/F kit - which can be built with or without the slats but includes a good decal sheet including markings for  USAF, Greek, Turkish and German machines (the last one is an F)

 

You mention the new Finemolds kit and 4 aerials on the nose; those are on the upgraded or "Kai" version of the F-4EJ which is an unslatted Japan only model.

 

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This is the 339M 'Ajax' 65 yrs/retirement special, note no DAIS

 

24732219018_f9a74ce2d6_c.jpg

 

This is the 338M 'Ares' 60yrs special, with DIAS

 

50986912876_f617f77f20_c.jpg

 

and the other side

 

26827653789_dba364a700_c.jpg

 

The Red areas highlight the DIAS antennas and the Yellow the IFF antennas. All HAF F-4E's  since 2005 have the IFF antennas.

 

50986181138_52ceff2d6c_c.jpg

 

Of note DIAS was installed on both Aegean Blue and SEA schemed a/c about 50/50, it was however only installed on a/c of the initial Peace Icarus 1 batch, serials all starting 015XXX.

Edited by scotthldr
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11 hours ago, scotthldr said:

The Red areas highlight the DIAS antennas and the Yellow the IFF antennas. All HAF F-4E's  since 2005 have the IFF antennas.

 

All RoG new tool F-16 kits feature the "chicken slicer" IFF antennae, the initial MLU boxings having an upper forward nose panel with them molded on, and later batches inclusing both IFF (part #39) and "vanilla" (part 88) forward sections.

 

Carefully removing them from a RoG part and adding them to a Phantom would seem feasible. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

15 hours ago, iainpeden said:

If you look for pictures of US Navy F-4Ns and F-4J later models) you will be able to see them.

 

Note that the F-4N has longer fairings for the AN/ALQ-126 than the F-4J/S, due to difference in cabling - Greek Phantoms used the long version.

 

If you're looking for Hasegawa parts, these are parts #A13/14.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

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Gentlemen, you are great!

 

Thank you for the valuable information and details!


 @iainpeden 

you're right: F4-F will come later, i'll focus on the Hellenics ones. ( my first idea )

 

One thing is certain: I will build the one of 339M, 65th anniversary.

 I will also make a version of the 338, but I haven't yet decided what livery: 60 years, or the one seen at Volkel in 2019... 

 

@scotthldr

Thank you for the photos:

1/ they will be precious to me.

   Especialy the one with both 338M 60years & 339M 65th taken side by side, ( i can do something like that, now i know that the 60th & 65th can stand together )

2/ thanks a lot for the details on the pics, it's really helpfull.

 

I keep on learning and informing myself ; I like this part: the research , and all the things i can learn! Thanks for the pictures: they will be precious to me.

 

I've few part of the ancient ESCI, some from Fujimi ( from old kits )  and Italeri ( raised panels)

For the bulges, I will use the old Italeri kit (raised lines) as an example.

I'm waiting for the FM kits, the Fujimi is already here.

 

@Andre

thank you too for the tips. 

Weird thing: i never had any Phantom II Hasegawa's kit... but Fujimi, Italeri, Esci... and the FM are not here yet

 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Edited by Zorglub
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5 hours ago, Hook said:

 

You're welcome, that's what this site is all about. And like I said, I have a set of Hase ECM fairings if you could use them.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

Thank you Andre,

Yes, thank you for the pieces, it's great, but I wouldn't want to disturb because I don't have a level as high as what I see here, but I hope to be able to progress.

 

And I think that being able to "transform" a kit is a very attractive thing and I enjoy it.

 

@CharlieGolf2009

Oh thank you, I didn't know this existed. The price seems a bit high to me, but seems correct considering what is provided ( for this price ,even less, I can get an new FM Phantom II. )

But it's something to think about.


However, I don't understand what some of the resin parts are, especially the top one and the one on the right: it's interesting.

 

 

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The resin part at the top is the LITENING targeting pod and the part on the right is the adapter which allows it to be hung in the forward left underfuselage missile recess. Only applies to post AUP F-4’s, but aircraft are seen more often without than with.

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