Airfix new 1/35 Cromwell Tanks

[stever219]

Just now, Circloy said:

Kept the list short to give the film companies some creditability

Do they deserve any?🤪🤪🤣🤣

[stever219]

8 minutes ago, Circloy said:

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by stever219
Double post, how do I delete this?

[stevej60]

1 hour ago, stever219 said:

You can add Tamiya, Hasegawa, Revell, Monogram, Starfix, Heller, Fujimi and How Nile Tom Cobley’s Kit Company to that list; n one’s nfallilible.

Wholeheartedly agree Stever yet it often seems to be Airfix (sometimes with reason) that generates pages of negativity yes they've been

sloppy but maybe it'll be a wake up call and bode well for future releases,and on the bright side it's knocked Covid off the front page I believe

Boris will be throwing a couple of million at a re-bolting plan in tomorrow's press conference.

[Kingsman]

I see that Sovereign 2000 already make a replacement distressed wheel set for the very reasonable price of £12.50.  It has enough wheels in it for a Challenger, being designed to fit both Tamiya and SKP kits, so you get a couple of spares.  And they have the right number of bolts.......

  

 

[rickshaw]

7 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

I remember hearing about the producers of "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" demanding that the costumes in the film had to be 100% historically accurate. When they saw the designs for Kevin Costner's outfit, they said "there's no way our star is going to wear a damned skirt in this movie!" Hollywood couldn't care less about historical accuracy.... never has.... never will. How many American movies give you the impression that the Yanks won WW2 single-handedly? Answer: All of them...

 

Chris.  

Not quite true.  Hollywood has pushed historical research on certain topics which was lacking in Academia.  George McDonald-Fraser wrote an interesting book on how accurate Hollywood had been (up until it was published in the early 1990s) and his conclusion was that generally they got things right.  He particular praise for their work on Biblical Epics which had pushed research a lot in that area.   We moan and groan about the little details but when you look at the broader general scheme of things, most Hollywood movies are OK IMO.

[Stuart Wilson]

4 hours ago, rickshaw said:

Not quite true.  Hollywood has pushed historical research on certain topics which was lacking in Academia.  George McDonald-Fraser wrote an interesting book on how accurate Hollywood had been (up until it was published in the early 1990s) and his conclusion was that generally they got things right.  He particular praise for their work on Biblical Epics which had pushed research a lot in that area.   We moan and groan about the little details but when you look at the broader general scheme of things, most Hollywood movies are OK IMO.

I remember the final WWII scene of "Saving Private Ryan." The P-51 that flies over has a black and white checked nose! The 78FG didn't convert to the P-51 until December '44. And then an M4A1 (supposedly) turns up, with what are clearly Canadian pattern dry pin tracks! Totally ruined my suspension of disbelief.

 

And also the reason my missus and my mates won't watch war movies with me anymore. 🙂

 

Stuart 

[Bullbasket]

12 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

At the risk of stirring up a real do-do storm, can I point out that any issues with the Airfix Cromwell are very much a "First World problem"? In some parts of the world, people are waking up and wondering if they will be executed or bombed or massacred or tortured today. In our part of the world, some people are concerned about the appearance of some tiny bits of moulded plastic. 

 

To anyone who feels that I am playing down / trivialising their comments about this kit, do your feelings make my previous statement any less true? I, for one, think not. 

 

Chris.     

When posting a reply on this thread (which in case anyone has forgotten is about the new Airfix Cromwell kits), do I think about the starving of the world? No. When having a discussion about the latest offering from Tamiya, do I consider what's going on in Syria (or any other trouble spot)? No. Why? Because this is basically a modelling site. I'll think about that kind of thing when I'm watching the news on TV. That's not meant to sound cold and uncaring, just real.

 

John.

[Test Valley Models]

For what it's worth Tamiya got the desertised Chally 2 wrong. but I don't see pages about that one.

Airfix I admit are well known for getting things wrong, the Ark Royal Phantom was wrong, it's down to whoever gives the CAD men the drawings to copy.

[Radpoe Spitfire]

10 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

I see that Sovereign 2000 already make a replacement distressed wheel set for the very reasonable price of £12.50.  It has enough wheels in it for a Challenger, being designed to fit both Tamiya and SKP kits, so you get a couple of spares.  And they have the right number of bolts.......

  

 

 

[Radpoe Spitfire]

19 minutes ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

 

Problem solved, Ok its aftermarket set and its price  isn't too bad.  If the rest of the kit is fine, a little scratchbuilding of a new set bolts would test your modelling skills. Bit at the end of the day, it's a blank 3D canvas, which, as a modeller you get out what you put in.  

 

There will always be faults about a kit. When we build one, there's no pressure to finish.

But- the manufacturer's are under pressure from all angles- CEO's, managers, shareholders and consumers.

 

With the state the world's in at the moment, is the lack of two wheel bolts so annoying?

 

 

 

[rickshaw]

2 hours ago, Stuart Wilson said:

I remember the final WWII scene of "Saving Private Ryan." The P-51 that flies over has a black and white checked nose! The 78FG didn't convert to the P-51 until December '44. And then an M4A1 (supposedly) turns up, with what are clearly Canadian pattern dry pin tracks! Totally ruined my suspension of disbelief.

 

And also the reason my missus and my mates won't watch war movies with me anymore. 🙂

 

Stuart 

Saving Private Ryan had more than it's share of errors/mistakes/what have yous.  Overall, the first third is OK as a good depiction of what it was like on Omaha Beach.  The middle third was bullshit and the last third was crap.  It was basically a War Comic put together by a director more interested in telling a story than actually showing the detail that was possible.  I enjoyed it but I've only ever seen it once.  Once was enough. 

 

I can watch "Odd Angry Shot" time and time again.  I can watch "Long Tan" time and time again (even with the errors in those movies).   It all depends on who's telling the story and what story they are telling.  Airfix has created a kit which builds well and looks good.  Sure, it's got some minor problems but then, most kits do.  I've read/listened to endless posts from rivet counters but overall, was building the kit worthwhile, even with the minor errors?   Who cares if it has the wrong number of bolts?  If your that concerned buy an aftermarket set of wheels.  Problem solved.

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

With the state the world's in at the moment, is the lack of two wheel bolts so annoying?

Yes. What the devil has the rest of the world got to do with this thread. It's meant to be about the new Airfix Cromwells. I believe that's what @AntPhillips wanted when he started this thread. If you want to bring up the state that rest of the world is in, could you please do it in the Chat section.

 

John.

[Bullbasket]

'Morning @AntPhillips Here's a question for you. Before I make anymore mistakes (yeah! I know that I do, with frequent regularity), can you confirm for me whether the Mk.Vl kit has the side opening hatch and one less stowage box on the RHS please? And do they include the same engine deck as they do in the MklV ?

Thanks Ant.

 

John.

[Radpoe Spitfire]

John, after 50 years of modelling, I want my hobby to be enjoyed and encouraged - if there a problem and a solution found, it's done.  If you can sort out the issue yourself, then you are learning to be a master in your art. 

 

If there's umbrage to be taken up, contact the producers.

 

 

[Bullbasket]

58 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

I can watch "Odd Angry Shot" time and time again.  I can watch "Long Tan" time and time again (even with the errors in those movies).   It all depends on who's telling the story and what story they are telling.  Airfix has created a kit which builds well and looks good.  Sure, it's got some minor problems but then, most kits do.  I've read/listened to endless posts from rivet counters but overall, was building the kit worthwhile, even with the minor errors?   Who cares if it has the wrong number of bolts?  If your that concerned buy an aftermarket set of wheels.  Problem solved.

If you are happy to part with your money for a kit that has problems and is not actually portraying the tank that it's supposed to, then that's entirely up to you, and I for one, wouldn't slate you for it. As an unashamed "rivet counter", I want something better than what Airfix have issued. As for the problem being solved by buying a set of AM wheels, why should I have too? That's just more unnecessary expense. Just for instance; if Airfix go on and release a Mk.Vllw, and use the same upper and lower hull as they have for the MklV, the same engine deck, the same incorrect wheels, are we supposed to just accept it because "it builds well"?

No, as I've already said, for me Airfix haven't produced anything with this kit, that would make me buy it instead of the Tamiya version (even with it's faults).

 

John.

[Mike]

Serious now.  We've gone from dissing a company for putting the wrong number of bolts on the wheels to discussion of human rights violation (really?), and now onto films and their interest in historical accuracy.  Oh, my aching incorrect track-pins!

 

The kit's out now, I've got two of them less than 4ft away to review, so the subject is pretty much spent.  There's 6 bolts on the wheels.  There should be 8.  The world is ending. Or you could buy or make some correct wheels to save us.  What will happen?  The suspense is killing me

[Bullbasket]

2 minutes ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

If there's umbrage to be taken up, contact the producers.

 

Sadly, for the most part, they don't listen, otherwise Tamiya would have corrected the engine deck on their 20+ year old Cromwell. 

As I've already said, I hold my hands up to being a rivet counter. That's the way that I enjoy my model building. If others are of a different persuasion, and they enjoy it, good for them. Personally, I can put up with inaccuracies if I can correct them. After all, that's what modelling is about, IMO, and I've already done that with more than half a dozen Tamiya Cromwells.

I'm just going to sit back now and wait for our esteemed leader to post his reviews of the two kits, and then decide as to whether I will part with hard earned spondulicks for the Airfix or the Tamiya Cromwell.

 

John.

[Andrew Jones]

28 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

'Morning @AntPhillips Here's a question for you. Before I make anymore mistakes (yeah! I know that I do, with frequent regularity), can you confirm for me whether the Mk.Vl kit has the side opening hatch and one less stowage box on the RHS please? And do they include the same engine deck as they do in the MklV ?

Thanks Ant.

 

John.

No, Exactly the same plastic in both boxes. I have followed the comments both on here and other sites , and I wonder , what do some modellers expect from a kit. 

OK , so the wheels only have six bolts not eight , but then the kit also includes  2x 75mm guns , a 95mm howiter and three alternative mantlets , 2 types of cupola , and a photo eched set of grills . the cost of adding these details to another manufacturers model would probably out weigh the cost of  replacement wheels for the Airfix kit .  So as far as I can see , it's you pays your money and you take your choice, and if sales encourage Airfix to produce more 1/35 models then I for one will be pleased .

[Radpoe Spitfire]

John, I'm going to leave this debate as 4 pages is a lot about two nuts missing.

If you dont want to buy aftermarket, shave the offending nut off,make a template to fit the wheel with eight holes, drill eight holes, add eight lengths of stretched sprue. Then construct eight nuts per wheel from plastic and, glue in place - another solution. 

 

That is part of what modelling is about. It would be sad hobby otherwise. 

 

I'm sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but after 50 years, I am old school and I get as great a pleasure from making my own mark than constructing a kit that goes together faultlessly.

 

My next reply will be on chat👍

 

[spruecutter96]

4 hours ago, Stuart Wilson said:

I remember the final WWII scene of "Saving Private Ryan." The P-51 that flies over has a black and white checked nose! The 78FG didn't convert to the P-51 until December '44. And then an M4A1 (supposedly) turns up, with what are clearly Canadian pattern dry pin tracks! Totally ruined my suspension of disbelief.

 

Does that mean that you had no issues with a "Tiger 1" that was very obviously a T-34 with a wooden turret built on to it? Thing is, there was no way that the Bovington museum would let Spielberg use their genuine Tiger, considering that the film's tank had to climb up huge piles of rubble and the like? Rather than dwell on the tiny details, maybe we should praise the film-maker for showing younger people that warfare is nothing like the latest video-games. In the film, there was no automatic re-generation of characters when they got killed. No bottomless ammo-magazines, etc, etc...

 

Chris. 

[AntPhillips]

2 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

'Morning @AntPhillips Here's a question for you. Before I make anymore mistakes (yeah! I know that I do, with frequent regularity), can you confirm for me whether the Mk.Vl kit has the side opening hatch and one less stowage box on the RHS please? And do they include the same engine deck as they do in the MklV ?

Thanks Ant.

 

John.

 

Hi John,

 

Both kits share the same plastic, and have the same early engine deck and top opening so called "suicide" hatch, see pic below:

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

That said, from the sprue lettering (there is no sprue C in either kit) it does look as if there may be plans to offer other versions, incidentally the sprue shown in the recent Airfix Model World mag has a slightly different layout, see screen shot pic below, notice that the glacis plate has 2 horns as it would if both side entry hatches were fitted, yet the hull part has the top hatch, confusing or what:

 

 

Ant 

[Stuart Wilson]

5 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Does that mean that you had no issues with a "Tiger 1" that was very obviously a T-34 with a wooden turret built on to it? Thing is, there was no way that the Bovington museum would let Spielberg use their genuine Tiger, considering that the film's tank had to climb up huge piles of rubble and the like? Rather than dwell on the tiny details, maybe we should praise the film-maker for showing younger people that warfare is nothing like the latest video-games. In the film, there was no automatic re-generation of characters when they got killed. No bottomless ammo-magazines, etc, etc...

 

Chris. 

I was being ironic. That's why I deliberately picked two very obscure details that were only on screen for a second or two. In a movie that was generally well researched. and accurate.

 

Although there's no excuse for  the scene showing someone firing a submachine gun through the Tigers drivers visor. Good luck getting your 9mm pistol bullets through several inches of armoured glass!

 

Stuart

[Mike]

I think @AntPhillips deserves a round of applause for posting up pics for everyone  

[spruecutter96]

1 hour ago, Stuart Wilson said:

I was being ironic.

I thought that was probably the case. I remember watching "Ryan" with my then-girlfriend and she gave me one of her disappointed looks when I pointed the Tiger's history out to her. To quote her directly: "Why can't you just enjoy the (expletive deleted) movie!?"

 

Chris. 

[rickshaw]

18 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Sadly, for the most part, they don't listen, otherwise Tamiya would have corrected the engine deck on their 20+ year old Cromwell. 

As I've already said, I hold my hands up to being a rivet counter. That's the way that I enjoy my model building. If others are of a different persuasion, and they enjoy it, good for them. Personally, I can put up with inaccuracies if I can correct them. After all, that's what modelling is about, IMO, and I've already done that with more than half a dozen Tamiya Cromwells.

I'm just going to sit back now and wait for our esteemed leader to post his reviews of the two kits, and then decide as to whether I will part with hard earned spondulicks for the Airfix or the Tamiya Cromwell.

 

John.

That is your choice.  My choice is to basically accept what I am given and be thankful for what I receive.  Depending on price, I'll more than likely buy either the Tamiya or the Airfix kits.  As I primarily build "What if" models, the number of wheel nuts doesn't worry me.  I think you and other "Rivet Counters" expend an awful lot of hot air over basically nothing.  As I have suggested, if you don't like it, then either don't buy it or procure an aftermarket set of wheels.