Airfix new 1/35 Cromwell Tanks

[Radpoe Spitfire]

Does anybody know where the source for the CAD's came from- I.e which individual Cromwell examples?

 

My reason for asking is this, when I worked for a noted military vehicle collection, the Cromwell he owned had been rebuilt using four hulls recovered from  UK weapons ranges. So,  given the relative scarcity of restored Cromwell's, is it possible the vehicle used had been fitted with 6 nut wheels?🤔

 

Just a thought.

[PaulH]

The one at thetford has 8 bolts 🤔 

 

http://tank-photographs.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cromwell-tank-desert-rat-norfolk.html

[Nigel Bunker]

10 hours ago, Mike said:

Almost 2 whole pages on two missing bolts per wheel.

Wait until they put the wrong gear lever in the Austin ambulance - guaranteed 6 pages minimum.

[Julien]

4 hours ago, geoffypres said:

 

Things not looking good for the proposed Airfix 1/35 K2 Ambulance, 

 

Not sure how you can even jump to that conclusion

[Kingsman]

 

4 hours ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

is it possible the vehicle used had been fitted with 6 nut wheels?

There never was a 6-bolt wheel.  Even the related earlier Cavalier, Covenanter and Crusader wheels had 8 bolts.  Someone just cocked up big time.  They weren't the first and they won't be the last.

 

But it appears that some of us seem to think that we should just keep quiet about kit flaws and meekly put up with them.

1 hour ago, Nigel Bunker said:

Wait until they put the wrong gear lever in the Austin ambulance - guaranteed 6 pages minimum

Who's to say that there weren't 6 pages worth of gear lever variations on K2s worthy of discussion?  You know how rivetty us counters can get..............  If the Cromwell is anything to go by I'm sure the K2's problems will be greater than that though.

[Bullbasket]

I thought that these pages were all about discussion. So there's been three pages talking about the faults with the kit. So what? Should we just accept what kit manufacturers dish out without complaining about the faults with their latest issue? I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm being asked to part with £30 of my money for a new kit, then I want to know if there are any pitfalls in said kit.

And besides which, this is much more than a moan about 2 missing bolts per wheel. It's about the laziness of the designers of the new kit. Regardless of how many cobbled together relics that there are in museums, it doesn't take much effort to take yourself off to Bovington or Saumur and take the dimensions from real tanks. Kit designers will travel all around the world to get their info. I believe that Tamiya did just that when they produced their Cromwell. As Peter says, there were no 6 bolt wheels, so how on earth did they come to that conclusion? And why did they include an engine deck for an earlier version? And why no side opening hatch for the Mk.Vl?

I welcome all this discussion about the new Airfix offering, because when it was first announced, I had mentally spent the money, buying at least two kits. But if the kit is no improvement on Tamiya's, then why pay more for something that is going to cause me to spend even more money for new wheels. And, sorry, the mind numbing idea of removing 120 moulded nuts from the wheels, and then replacing them with 160 new ones, is a complete non starter. I don't think that I have that many years left!  Tracks are of no concern to me as I would probably end up using Fruils anyway, as I like to have the wheels displaced.

So as far as I'm concerned, if Telford is on this year, I will be in the kit swap, looking for Tamiya Cromwells that people are flogging off cheap, because they've replaced them with the Airfix one.

 

John.

 

PS. Also, I don't think that just because they've made a few cockups with the Cromwell, that they are bound to do the same with the Austin ambulance. At least they've got a fairly decent 1/76th scale one that they can pantograph.

 

[Seahawk]

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

PS. Also, I don't think that just because they've made a few cockups with the Cromwell, that they are bound to do the same with the Austin ambulance. At least they've got a fairly decent 1/76th scale one that they can pantograph.

 

Not sure it works that way.  They had a perfectly respectable 1/76 Cromwell and a 1/32 polythene Cromwell they could have pantographed. 

 

Or, more seriously, at least have taken a look at before cutting the moulds.

[Nigel Bunker]

3 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

it doesn't take much effort to take yourself off to Bovington or Saumur and take the dimensions from real tanks.

Or even spend about £20 on a book with photographs of the tank. I've looked in my meagre AFV library and in some you photos can clearly see the wheel bolts - all 8 of them on a wheel.

[Cerberus]

6 hours ago, Nigel Bunker said:

Or even spend about £20 on a book with photographs of the tank. I've looked in my meagre AFV library and in some you photos can clearly see the wheel bolts - all 8 of them on a wheel.

 You don't have to spend any money at all to do basic research/rivet counting (yes, they are indeed one and the same thing, except that one is a positive term, and the other is used as a negative term, and tends to get thrown at certain model makers for reasons known only to those doing the throwing) but anyway, there is a wealth of information on the internet these days regarding even the most obscure subjects, walkrounds, so on and so forth.

 

 And you certainly don't need any books to spot a wheel bolt problem 

 

 

 The driver even stops at 0:50, so you can have a little count up, that's very nice of him... 

 

 Matt

Edited March 9, 2021 by Cerberus
vid time

[Kingsman]

I've just noticed that Sovereign 2000 already do a set of distressed A27 wheels for the Tamiya kit. With 8 bolts.  £12.50 at Historex Agents but no stock there.

[Bullbasket]

12 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

The driver even stops at 2:22, so you can have a little count up, that's very nice of him.

What a lovely sound that Meteor makes. I could be wrong, but that looks like a Mk.lVF. Thanks for posting that Matt.

 

John.

[Cerberus]

2 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

What a lovely sound that Meteor makes. I could be wrong, but that looks like a Mk.lVF. Thanks for posting that Matt.

 I found myself intrigued by the exhaust deflector and just how well it works, pushing all the exhaust smoke straight down to the ground, where it then dissipates gradually, but then I am easily intrigued, and the engine noise is glorious yes 

 

 Matt

[stevej60]

Been interesting reading this thread as someone who only dabble's now and then with armour I'm not likely to buy this kit( the proposed

Austin is much more up my street),I don't wish to add to the Kicking Airfix are getting as I'm a big fan but I wonder who are these people

running the research and production side of the business? They seem a bit lax for the reasons everyone has made clear and in reality it's

not an Airfix kit it's an Academy kit which is fair enough makes business sense but why not consult with museum's, expert's and those in

the Know in the same way as film makers do? It's a bit like a band who play instruments but don't like music and run it as a business just

to make money,shame is like music fan's we modeller's will shell out a fair chunk of money for what we love and we can forgive mistake's

but have every right to moan when a click of a search button could have made all the difference.Pure conjecture but looking at the 1/48

vehicle's released over the last few year's to great applause I wonder if we really should be pinning a bit of the blame with Academy too?

[IanC]

On 3/8/2021 at 12:01 PM, Mike said:

Almost 2 whole pages on two missing bolts per wheel.  

 

It's important. The rest of the world has been so obsessed by the Harry & Meghan interview that they just haven't noticed yet.

[nheather]

15 hours ago, Cerberus said:

 You don't have to spend any money at all to do basic research/rivet counting (yes, they are indeed one and the same thing, except that one is a positive term, and the other is used as a negative term, and tends to get thrown at certain model makers for reasons known only to those doing the throwing) but anyway, there is a wealth of information on the internet these days regarding even the most obscure subjects, walkrounds, so on and so forth.

 

 And you certainly don't need any books to spot a wheel bolt problem 

 

 

 The driver even stops at 0:50, so you can have a little count up, that's very nice of him... 

 

 Matt

Great video.  You can see immediately why they added those exhaust deflectors.  Those clouds of blue smoke, can you imagine them shooting up into the air when you are trying to hide behind some foliage or bocage.

 

As for the wheels, looks like the designer got fixated with hexagons.  The mounting area for the axle caps is hexagonal too.  I suspect that is to key the axle cap so that the bolts on it line up with the bolts on the wheels.  And I think that is where the thinking went wrong - there are six bolts on the axles cap and I suspect the designer translated that thinking across to the wheels and was distracted by how to make it easy for the builder to ensure that the cap and wheel bolts all lined up nicely.

 

Also the designers are not necessarily interested in the subject nor very experienced.  From memory, there was an Airfix documentary and a young lady fresh from university started and was given the job of designing a new Scalextric car.  Now I’m sure there was more to it than presented in the documentary but it had it that she was shown the CAD application, what was needed and away she went.  In reality I suspect there was lots of familiarisation and tutoring but that would have made for boring TV.  So my take is that Airfix salaries probably aren’t that high and designers they can employ may not be that experienced and possibly have no interest in the subject they are modelling.  My wife genuinely can’t see the difference between a Spitfire and a Hurricane.  I have only got to see a tiny fraction of the aircraft and it is obvious to me.  To her they are are the same brown and green aircraft and it is only with careful studying that she can see the differences - even then she says they are minor and wouldn’t be noticeable unless you looked carefully.  I’m the same with curtains, they all look the same, which frustrates my wife for who the differences in stitching, how they hang, how they are ruffed, how they are made, the material etc. are as plain as day.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

 

 

[IanC]

1 hour ago, nheather said:

Great video.  You can see immediately why they added those exhaust deflectors.  Those clouds of blue smoke, can you imagine them shooting up into the air when you are trying to hide behind some foliage or bocage

 

 

 

 

Yes, but I think originally they were to prevent exhaust fumes being drawn into the tank and gassing the crew. The air intake is on top of the rear hull. 

 

[nheather]

6 minutes ago, IanC said:

 

Yes, but I think originally they were to prevent exhaust fumes being drawn into the tank and gassing the crew. The air intake is on top of the rear hull. 

 

Thanks, so not to stop smoke signals being sent up into the air saying “here I am”.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Mike]

7 hours ago, IanC said:

 

It's important. The rest of the world has been so obsessed by the Harry & Meghan interview that they just haven't noticed yet.

I've already heard several words about that, and that's too many.  Stoppit!

[Nigel Bunker]

I'm waiting for Oprah to interview the Airfix design team who will say "No matter how good we make the kits they're never good enough for some modellers"

[spruecutter96]

At the risk of stirring up a real do-do storm, can I point out that any issues with the Airfix Cromwell are very much a "First World problem"? In some parts of the world, people are waking up and wondering if they will be executed or bombed or massacred or tortured today. In our part of the world, some people are concerned about the appearance of some tiny bits of moulded plastic. 

 

To anyone who feels that I am playing down / trivialising their comments about this kit, do your feelings make my previous statement any less true? I, for one, think not. 

 

Chris.     

Edited March 10, 2021 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[spruecutter96]

4 hours ago, Nigel Bunker said:

I'm waiting for Oprah to interview the Airfix design team who will say "No matter how good we make the kits they're never good enough for some modellers"

Ahem to that, my friend!

 

Chris. 

[Circloy]

20 hours ago, stevej60 said:

I wonder if we really should be pinning a bit of the blame with Academy too?

Whoever we lay the blame with it's not on it's own sufficient to villify the manufacturer, moreso by those who are wlling to accept fundamental errors made by other manufacturers.

Point out the errors to warn of shortcomings and allow them to make their own decision.

Complain if you must, direct to airfix might be the most effective way to bring about change.

 

20 hours ago, stevej60 said:

why not consult with museum's, expert's and those in the Know in the same way as film makers do?

Are film makers known for their accurate research? Probably responsible for more gaff's than Trumpeter, Hobby Boss & Airfix combined

[spruecutter96]

3 hours ago, Circloy said:

Are film makers known for their accurate research? Probably responsible for more gaff's than Trumpeter, Hobby Boss & Airfix combined

I remember hearing about the producers of "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" demanding that the costumes in the film had to be 100% historically accurate. When they saw the designs for Kevin Costner's outfit, they said "there's no way our star is going to wear a damned skirt in this movie!" Hollywood couldn't care less about historical accuracy.... never has.... never will. How many American movies give you the impression that the Yanks won WW2 single-handedly? Answer: All of them...

 

Chris.  

Edited March 10, 2021 by spruecutter96
Amending some information.

[stever219]

10 minutes ago, Circloy said:

Are film makers known for their accurate research? Probably responsible for more gaff's than Trumpeter, Hobby Boss & Airfix combined

You can add Tamiya, Hasegawa, Revell, Monogram, Starfix, Heller, Fujimi and How Nile Tom Cobley’s Kit Company to that list; n one’s nfallilible.

[Circloy]

Just now, stever219 said:

You can add Tamiya, Hasegawa, Revell, Monogram, Starfix, Heller, Fujimi and How Nile Tom Cobley’s Kit Company to that list; n one’s nfallilible.

Kept the list short to give the film companies some creditability