Time to replace my MM enamels - Ammo of MiG?

[nimrod77]

Went through my paints (Testors MM, Humbrol enamels) over the holidays and I've decided I need to update them as a lot have gone off.

I've bought some samples to try out some acrylics from MiG and Mission Models, but of which require a different approach to application with an airbrush. The give good results, but when brushing are not as good as the old enamels.

 

• Mission models issue with their Poly mix going off in the bottle kinda turned me off of them.
• I like the idea of the water based acrylics from Ammo of Mig, but there seems to be very little information out there about pros or cons with these paints. Has anyone got any opinions on these?
• AK 3rd Gen also hit my radar but don't seem to do aircraft colours. 
• If these don't hit the mark, I will go to Lacquer acrylics, will just require me to move my airbrush outside. Probably SMS if that is the way I go.

I have analysis paralysis... HELP!

Any information would be great!

[Shin]

For one data point, I use Mission Models for 90% of my painting and have been very happy with it. Yes the poly craps over eventually (both of mine have lasted over a year and half each before they chunked up), but the paint works so well for me that I'm willing to put up with it. Just know the poly is not necessary, and that you can potentially substitute their clear primer for poly if you really want. I will say one of the big reasons I use MMP is that it's available at my local hobby store and as an American company I wouldn't have issues sourcing it from multiple places around here. 

 

I have heard rumor that MMP may have changed their formula recently and new people using the paint seem to be griping about paint adherence issues, so I wonder if there's any truth to it. There is also a little bit of a learning curve - you thin less than other modelling paints so it may seem a bit thick in the airbrush, but once you dial the ratios in for your setup, it sprays wonderfully with good coverage, leveling, and durability.

 

As much as I like the paint, I have not had good luck with their primers or clears. The primers seems to be more work than needed when there is a superior waterbased acrylic primer in Stynelrez (also rebranded as Ultimate Primer and Ammo One Shot). The flat clear I have never gotten to work, the semi-gloss is inconsistent for me, and the gloss is fine. I'm sure a lot of this is user error, but quite frankly if there are better/easier  options, I'm going to gravitate towards those. The metallics are great though (for airbrush, not so much for paint brush). 

 

I haven't ever used the Mig paints so can't help there, but I did grab a box of AK 3rd gen metallics recently because my local store didn't have Vallejo Metal Colors gold in stock. I only applied via paint brush but they worked great. The actual paint seems to have fairly positive reviews as well. If MMP has gone down hill, AK 3rd Gen would probably be the first paint system I would look to test more of first. 

 

Oh, as a potential fourth option I have a handful of Hataka red line (airbrush acrylics), and the few I've tried have worked pretty well for me. I don't think I could recommend them without using them more though, and I've read plenty of positive and negative reviews about them. But if you're looking for aircraft colors, they've got 'em. 

 

And yeah, you're probably not going to match your paint brushing experience with acrylics vs the enamels. 

 

Sounds like you've already gotten a few samples to test, I say keep doing that, and you'll settle into one you like eventually. Good luck!

Edited February 26, 2021 by Shin
typo

[nimrod77]

Thanks for the info Shin.

I had heard good things about MMP hence why I bought some of there stuff to try. I tried airbrushing some LGG over a test subject using MMPs instructions for thinning etc and found that it was a little translucent IMO. I think it would definitely need more than one coat to build up the colour properly. I can get MMP in Au, but there only seems to be a single stockist. I will have to try out some more of their stuff in anger and see how they go.

 

Clear coats seem to be a big issue for water based acrylics across the board, which isn't good. Mig Lucky Varnish seems to have big issues with adhesion or discolouration too.

 

I want to go down the more healthy path of water based acrylics, but there seems to be a lack of information surrounding them, like they're a dark art! 

 

I used the Ammo One shot on my last build and it is awesome stuff. Will be using it again for sure. Ammo seem to have a good rep, but there isn't an abundance of people on the internet that seem to be using it. The one bottle I did try out wouldn't brush on even with a layer of primer under it. It just beaded up and refused to go down. My plan was to get some AK or Vallejo acrylics for brush painting after that experience and just use Ammo for airbrushing.

 

I will look into Hataka Red, I have not heard of them before.

 

Keen for any more opinions!

[Harry Callahan]

If you only used enamels in the past, then i can just recommend Gunze, Tamiya, MRP or AK Real Colours, thats not enamels but easy to handle. Vallejo and Ammo of Mig are acrylics, i cannot recommend, coz the handling is totally different, if you airbrushing to thick, this paints make fisheyes and they need a lot of layers until they covering.

[Shin]

Yeah honestly paint is very personal, you're going to get a myriad of responses. Ultimately I think availability and access should be high on the list for any considerations.

 

Regarding MMP, try light wet coats with a couple minutes between each and see if that yields better results - usually only need 2-3 for full coverage. I also needed to thin a little more than they recommend to get a good spray from my airbrush. 

 

I hear you on the acrylics, I'm in the same boat. That said I still want results, so I gloss with Tamiya X-22 and Mr. Color Levelling thinner, the only part of my regular process that has me use non-acrylics. Would hate all the work I put into a project to be marred by shoddy clear coats. For waterbased people seem to love Alclad Aqua Gloss, but I personally had mixed results with it. I've had good success with AK Interactive Ultra Matte for a dead flat, tried VMS Matte recently with good results for a flat, and Tamiya X-86 thinned with X-20A for a slight sheen, all acrylics, if you're interested.  

 

Lastly if brush painting is important to you I think you should definitely take a look at AK 3rd Gen. I know a lot of figure painters are using it with good success. 

[nimrod77]

10 minutes ago, Harry Callahan said:

If you only used enamels in the past, then i can just recommend Gunze, Tamiya, MRP or AK Real Colours, thats not enamels but easy to handle. Vallejo and Ammo of Mig are acrylics, i cannot recommend, coz the handling is totally different, if you airbrushing to thick, this paints make fisheyes and they need a lot of layers until they covering.

Thanks for the info Harry. I have watched many tutorials and tried out some Ammo on my current build with success, apart from brush painting the same colour to correct some damage I caused. The technique isn't hard to understand once you have it down, so I'm not worried about learning. I'm more interested in what people think of these paints in general and what gotchas people have come across. 👍

[Harry Callahan]

Your welcome, every modeler make different experiences in the paints he use, when i airbrushing i ,,play,, with the paints, it means i can easily stearing the result, here i cover less, there i cover more, here i apply a drop white into the base colour, there i make already shades with a drop of black or dark grey, i attempt it same with Acrylics, but i was not succesful.

[Sierra Mike Sierra]

5 hours ago, nimrod77 said:

I have analysis paralysis... HELP!

Familiar to me 🤪

 

I am still undecided as regards acrylics. Used Vallejo on some test birds, but occasionally the paint seemed a bit thick and even peeled off under hars test conditions (rubbing under water)- 

 

I have ordered identical orange line (lacquer) and red line sets (acrylics) from Hataka for comparison.   https://www.hataka-hobby.com/ 

 

Still waiting for delivery.

 

Best regards

Stefan

[nimrod77]

1 minute ago, Sierra Mike Sierra said:

Familiar to me 🤪

 

I am still undecided as regards acrylics. Used Vallejo on some test birds, but occasionally the paint seemed a bit thick and even peeled off under hars test conditions (rubbing under water)- 

 

I have ordered identical orange line (lacquer) and red line sets (acrylics) from Hataka for comparison.   https://www.hataka-hobby.com/ 

 

Still waiting for delivery.

 

Best regards

Stefan

Nice. Be interested in what you think after using them. I had my cart filled with Ammo.... but then started thinking