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Unusual MiG-3 markings


-Ian-

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I own the book ‘MiG-3 Aces of World War 2’ by Dmitriy Khazanov and Aleksander Medved, amongst other things the book includes illustrations of 32 different aircraft in a range of camouflage schemes. One of them is an intriguing grey and tan/sand scheme but I haven’t been able to find any reference or any other images of this in any online source.

 

Can any MiG-3 experts here tell me more about this scheme, the main question being did it ever actually exist?

 

 I don’t really want to post a scan due to copyright concerns, the closest match I can find online is this Pe-2, main difference being the Pe-2 has a 3 tone green, sand and grey scheme whereas the MiG-3 is 2 tone sand and grey only, also the shade of grey used in the illustration of the MiG is a little darker.

 

spacer.png

Source: https://alchetron.com/Petlyakov-Pe-2

 

Thanks

Edited by -Ian-
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  • -Ian- changed the title to Unusual MiG-3 markings
1 hour ago, -Ian- said:

One of them is an intriguing grey and tan/sand scheme but I haven’t been able to find any reference or any other images of this in any online source.

 

Can any MiG-3 experts here tell me more about this scheme, the main question being did it ever actually exist?

 

if you are not going to post the profile for discussion, it would help if you list what profile you mean,  pilot/unit/date and any caption data,  for anyone who has the book.  

 

also, with that data, try searching here

http://ava.org.ru

probably in the fighter regiments, 

http://ava.org.ru/iap.html

иап = IAP

гиап = guards IAP

ПВО = PVO

BBC = VVS

 

or run it through translate

 

there are 12 pages of Mig-3 profiles here

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/457/1/0

see if it's posted and and link .

 

Finally,  there is a reason for my sig line......  

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3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

if you are not going to post the profile for discussion, it would help if you list what profile you mean,  pilot/unit/date and any caption data,  for anyone who has the book.  

 

also, with that data, try searching here

http://ava.org.ru

probably in the fighter regiments, 

http://ava.org.ru/iap.html

иап = IAP

гиап = guards IAP

ПВО = PVO

BBC = VVS

 

or run it through translate

 

there are 12 pages of Mig-3 profiles here

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/457/1/0

see if it's posted and and link .

 

Finally,  there is a reason for my sig line......  

 

Thanks for the links Troy.

 

There are actually 2 aircraft in the book with the same schemes:

 

Plate 12 ‘MiG-3 of Major Yakov Titaev, 148th IAP,  Southwestern Front AF, Karkov region, May 1942’

Plate 25 ‘MiG-3 of Captain Aleksander  A Sharmin, 7th IAP, Black Sea Fleet Air Force, Kuban region, May 1943’

 

Unfortunately I couldn’t find a match in any of the links you provided or in google image searches for the regiments, but then running the Russian site through Google translate gave me an idea, I did an image search in Russian: МиГ-3 148, which gave me this. The middle aircraft below is the same one represented in plate 25 although I think by a different artist. The colours are a little different between the 2 profiles, the darker of the 2 colours is more of a greyish brown in the image below, the one in the book is closer to pure grey, although a 2 tone brown scheme does seem more plausible I think.

spacer.png

Edited by -Ian-
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2 hours ago, Kari Lumppio said:

Hello!

 

-ian-, do you mean this?:

white54.jpg

hotlinked from Massimo Tessitori's site:

https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/mig3/white54.html

Maybe he will tell more.

 

Kari

No, although interestingly that particular aircraft is also included in my book too and listed as being from the same regiment as the one mentioned as plate 25 in my previous post.

 

I looked at Massimo's site before starting the thread, I couldn't see an example of the scheme I'm interested in, which was what initially made me question the book's accuracy.

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18 minutes ago, -Ian- said:

The colours are a little different between the 2 profiles, the darker of the 2 colours is definitely more brown in the image below, the one in the book is closer to grey, a 2 tone brown scheme does seem more plausible I think.

Except, there is NO two brown VVS scheme.  The only VVS 'brown' was AMT-1 "coffee with milk" 

 

02/Za Stalina, just look like a standard black/green scheme and another poor profile. 

 

Ian, as a newish member, i don't know what you do or dont know of the subject, and I don't have time now to explain the research history of VVS markings, but it's only really been the last 10 years accurate information has been available.  I can dig out links that will explain this if you are interested.

 

I'll @Massimo Tessitori as he maybe to add more.  

 

note

27 minutes ago, -Ian- said:

Plate 25 ‘MiG-3 of Captain Aleksander  A Sharmin, 7th IAP, Black Sea Fleet Air Force, Kuban region, May 1943

http://ava.org.ru/iap/14g.htm

 

"4. МиГ-3 (22.06.1941 — 04.10.1941)" 

 

the 7 IAP switched to the Yak-1 in 1942

I found the fuller caption on google books, saying they had two Mig-3 left.  

 

30 minutes ago, -Ian- said:

Plate 12 ‘MiG-3 of Major Yakov Titaev, 148th IAP,  Southwestern Front AF, Karkov region, May 1942’

http://ava.org.ru/iap/148.htm

 

the dates look OK.     

 

I don't know enough on this to be specific,  but I do know enough to say old profiles are likely to be wrong, and I see lots of profiles in Osprey books I disagree with, which is why I have my sig line below.....    You want an accurate model, pick one with decent photos.   HTH

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Hi Ian, 

I am not sure to have understood well what is the profile of interest. If it is plane 02 of 148 IAP, I don't know any photo of it. I saw that profile many years ago, then I thought that it was made by a mix of photos of different planes. I wouldn't credit it. Forget strange beiges, there are not reasons to think that these planes had unusual colors. 

 

Some very interesting photos of MiG-3s of 148 IAP are known, none of them shows a whole plane. 

Some of them show winter finishes.

Some other ones are more interesting: it seems that spots of summer paints were added on a white base.

 

khar-zastf.jpg

 

khar-spotsf.jpg

 

khar-zarof.jpg

 

After these images, I saw few further ones, including one of a MiG-3 of the same unit with usual black-green camo and a part of the spinner painted white as on the profile of 02. 

I made the idea that all planes of the unit had the slogan Za Stalina on the left side and Za Rodinu on the right side, in white on summer camo and in red on the winter camo (apart for the letters overposed to the red stars that were left white).

I don't remember to have seen bort numbers on planes of this unit, but I can't be sure.

My old profiles of planes of 148 IAP will have to be updated some day. 

 

Regards

Massimo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Massimo Tessitori

 

Yes that is the profile I'm querying, I'll discount this scheme as a possibility in that case.

 

 

@Troy Smith

 

This is a relatively new field for me, my WW2 modelling background is primarily focussed on British, German and American aircraft, I've only recently developed an interest in Soviet aircraft of the period . The links you mentioned would be of interest if you have them to hand.

 

Thanks to both of you for the advice.

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There is another book Medved-Khazanov about mig-3 with the same profiles (and some in my opinion are more correct), but the author of color plates is not Andrei Yurgenson but Mikhail Bykov, you can personally ask him what you need. Here is his facebook https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100054221403573

 

This picture?

752.jpg

Edited by DLinevitch
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