TonyOD Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Blimey Martin, this is advanced stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vultures1 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Some proper modelling surgery going on there Martin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Well done on making those cuts Martin. With the worst and most nerve-wracking part of this project done it should all be straight-forward now hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 7, 2021 Author Share Posted April 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Col. said: Well done on making those cuts Martin. With the worst and most nerve-wracking part of this project done it should all be straight-forward now hopefully Thanks Col. Today I have removed the tape after filling the gaps with Gloop. It has set pretty well but I'll leave it for another day or two. I am then getting the cockpits done for the three builds Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandboof Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Nice surgery . Trust that is no tissue rejection . Martin H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Grandboof said: Nice surgery . Trust that is no tissue rejection . Martin H I’ll be checking today - tidying the joins a bit. Hopefully no scarring Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 Having located a comprehensive, and sadly vociferous, review of the Airfix kit by Gabor (in time @ya-tabor on this forum), I see there are a number of inaccuracies with the kit. I’m not going to rectify them all but I will attempt a few corrections, detailing as I go along. The biggest, though, seems to be the wing profile and that, for me, is a bridge too far to correct. The rest are small tweaks :). Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Ya-Gabor was obviously intimately acquainted with the MiG-17 and his criticisms of the kit reflected that, most of us wouldn't have known about these errors otherwise. I agree, the wing profile is going too far although his criticism of the type of ejection seat used would, on my own research, depend upon the time-frame and user, there are definitely photos of the earlier, MiG-15 type seat fitted to MiG-17s (you can tell by the headrest). No kit is ever going to pass muster with those who are infinitely acquainted with a type, they're always going to know the subtle nuances of a type, more often than not, they've maintained the type. Well done Martin for swallowing the brave pills and taking this on. Your approach echo my own initial thoughts of how to proceed with this conversion but they were only provisional thoughts, I hadn't gone to the detail you have. Good luck with this, I'll be keeping an eye on this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Wez said: Ya-Gabor was obviously intimately acquainted with the MiG-17 and his criticisms of the kit reflected that, most of us wouldn't have known about these errors otherwise. I agree, the wing profile is going too far although his criticism of the type of ejection seat used would, on my own research, depend upon the time-frame and user, there are definitely photos of the earlier, MiG-15 type seat fitted to MiG-17s (you can tell by the headrest). No kit is ever going to pass muster with those who are infinitely acquainted with a type, they're always going to know the subtle nuances of a type, more often than not, they've maintained the type. Well done Martin for swallowing the brave pills and taking this on. Your approach echo my own initial thoughts of how to proceed with this conversion but they were only provisional thoughts, I hadn't gone to the detail you have. Good luck with this, I'll be keeping an eye on this. Thanks Wez. I agree, Gabor's knowledge and keen eye on the detail is great and, of course, he should know! He is rather lengthy and repetitive in his posts, though! Nevertheless, it is all great useful stuff and I am grateful for it. Thank you, Gabor. My approach to the differences will be limited to 1) adding the "additional" pitot on the nose (as needed), adding the missing "T" RV antennas (from rod), adding the dorsal nose "wheels down" indicator. I dont want to upset the detail of the IFF antennas on the wing tips and certainly the wing profile is a no no for me. As you say, the seats varied and really all modellers should check photos of the actual aircraft they are building. I am certainly not going to be adding the missing panel lines. My eye and hand are just not precise enough! I'm happy to take on this trial conversion :). I really want a Guinean Fresco-A and this, given the scale issues with the Bilek/Zvezda, seems to be the only way to go. By reducing the donot part to the absolute minimum the scale differences appear not to be noticable. Now, on with preparing the next three Fresco cockpit tubs! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 I guess they dont look too bad, Col.? I will need to shape the bottom end of the rear fin but otherwise I'm happy... so far. I'll get them cleaned up and sanded to shape before making a final judgement ;). Today I've been getting the next three underway, with the cockpit tub being assembled and, for two of them, the PE cemented in place. I forgot to order a set for the fourth! Back soon. Martin 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 Re: I forgot, the tweaks to the Airfix kit, the Trim tabs also need modifying. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 17 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: I guess they dont look too bad, Col.? You're impressing me with your work there Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 This machine is recorded as a MiG-17AS, meaning that it was equiped to use S-21 rockets, carried and fired from PU-21 launchers that were sited on customised launchers between the main gear and the outer wing tanks. You can see this on the picture that I posted at the beginning of this thread. I have searched the internet and, it seems, that Eduard Brassin produced such a set a while ago (ED672009) but, sadly, it is not now available. Therefore I am going to build the pylons from plastic card. I only want to fit the pylons as I have no evidence that the Guineans used the S-21. Here is the Eduard Brassin set: I think I can get the detail from this. My challenge is getting the correct dimensions. I have a side view drawing of the MiG-17AS which seems to have it so I should be good 🤞 Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 Hmmm .... after some research I see that the pylons on my aircraft do not match the profile of the PU-21/S-21 pylons. I'm really not sure what they are and, then, I dont know how to make them as I dont have the dimensions, etc. Bummer I'll figure it out somehow Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 No photos as they would simply be repeats of previous. However, today I got two (of three) cockpit tubs PE'd, PPP'd and painted (Colourcoats Blue Grey (ACSM05). They are now assembled, without seats/control column etc and await weight being added tomorrow once the cement has hardened. I have also started to mark out the position for the additional underwing pylon (see previous) as well as drilling out the fixing points for the drop tanks. I have drilled out the chaff dispensers with a 0.3mm drill bit and will sand them back flat to the fin. The access panel on the port side of the fin has been Glooped. I will mark out the new panel, which is much smaller, once the Gloop has hardened. The jet pipe is installed too Tomorrow I might, just might, have these two Fresco fuselages buttoned up 🤞 That's about it for today. The rest of my time has been spent building up the MiG-21FL seat and painting the last few bits before assembly. Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Steadily getting these Frescos together. This morning, between other stuff, I've got some weight in to the intake splitter for two of the three remaining builds and have now installed the cockpit tubs. For the third (Nigerian) I am awaiting the Eduard PE set to pop through my letter box. I'll leave these to set before moving forward. Next (for the two) will be additional weight under the cockpit floor and anywhere I can get it. The cockpits still need to be dry brushed and washed so I'll get that done later today. I've got the position marked out - in my judgement - for the additional pylons. Maybe a bit close to the wheel wells? I have also continued to get the rear end of the Guinean sanded (Right below) - just a rough shaping at this stage. I will later have to reshape the base of the fin, under the rudder, but that can wait a little while. Martin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Good progress Martin and I like how you've organised the three different subjects into storage boxes to avoid confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Col. said: Good progress Martin and I like how you've organised the three different subjects into storage boxes to avoid confusion We’ll, that’s the hope, Col! ;). Time will tell! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 Steadily the next two Frescos are taking shape. These are the Guinean and the Malian. With the fuselage halves now closed I have now started to attach the cannon bay cover. As I discovered with the earlier Burkinabe machine (yet to be fineshed), this needs to be done in stages because of the odd way that the parts are designed to come together. If you dont - as I found out with my first itereation on the Malian - you end up with a contortion that is un-recoverable. If you are building this kit apply cement to a small area, close the two parts and align that area. When reasonably set do the same to another area, and so on. The cannon cover requires the same treatment in order that it fits the fuselage shape and the intake part-ring.All good fun! So far so good with sanding the rear of "513". 🤞 Tomorrow I'll get the rest done of the fuselage done, bit by bit ...... Martin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Sounds like Airfix didn't test build these all that well during the design phase ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 They seem to have set enough so I got the opposite sides of the cannon covers cemented. You can see that I have slipped a very thin card piece in the joint. This is to bring it up to meet the fuselage. If you dont, and I have had this with all three builds, the starboard side sits slightly recessed. Tomorrow I will cement the forward part (ahead of the card insert). Martin On 4/19/2021 at 3:33 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Sounds like Airfix didn't test build these all that well during the design phase ? I just added the edit above, Dennis Martin 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 Hi all! A bit more done on the Frescos. Today it was more closing of the fuselage in the manner I described earlier. In addition I got the wings cleaned and closed. The ones for the Guinean needed re-marking for the addition underwing pylons. I had originally set them too much inboard. I've now moved them out 1mm and they look much better, matching the photo in post No.1. For the pylons themselves I have been searching through my spares and found that the outer pylons on the MiG-21MF match very well. As i have some spares left over from my MiG-21UM I've set them aside. From these, though, I have marked and drilled the locating holes under the wings. My choice: The one I chose on the left, and an alternative (the two on the right): I would clearly remove most, if not all, of the detail. However, as I dont know specifically what was hanging under "513" I will use a degree of "Modeller’s Licence" in completing it. Here is the trio as of now: Back again soon Martin 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyOD Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/9/2021 at 8:22 AM, Wez said: No kit is ever going to pass muster with those who are infinitely acquainted with a type, they're always going to know the subtle nuances of a type, more often than not, they've maintained the type. The more ya look, the more ya find... when I first joined BM and pitched in with an Italeri Wessex, it quickly attracted the attention of gentlemen who had actually worked on said helicopter and who highlighted inaccuracies of which (even with my research) I would probably have remained ignorant otherwise. Sometimes ignorance is bliss! Looking great Martin, proper modelling this is! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 16 hours ago, TonyOD said: Looking great Martin, proper modelling this is! Thanks Tony. I’m hoping my conveyer belt of builds will get me closer to finishing them all in time (barring the Nigerian, maybe). I’m also attempting to get the MiG-21FL done but the modelling gods are not playing ball currently :(. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I have both the Zvezda and Airfix kits built up and in my cabinet next to each other. I think the Zvezda kit is really good - some of the detail is actually sharper and better than with the Airfix kit. Zvezda is little bit smaller, yes. Is it so much smaller that you can notice it? I can't. I really can't. But what lets the Zvezda kit down is the fuselage shape IMHO. It looks fine until you see the side profile, I think the Airfix has the proper rounded bit heavy on the belly shape while Zvezda has noticeably more straight mid section. Zvezda looks like a MiG-17 that has lost too much weight It's one of those things - even if you can't quite put your finger on it - that looks bit off from the beginning. And when you see it, you really can't unsee it. Is it so bad that I wouldn't build it again if I wanted an early Fresco? Probably not, I would not lose my sleep over it. But as I have the Airfix kit - and it is a better kit overall, shapewise, how it goes together etc. - and seeing what you are making out of it, I think I will give it a go too I will try to survive with just one kit, though. So putty, sanding and scribing will be required. If it doesn't work, I will explore other options. @RidgeRunner Thanks again for noticing that I was gonna make a school boy error with my kit & decal selection. You certainly have given me some extra work but then again - I prefer that over having a finished kit that I realise in the end that I have made poor choices on it. I'm still not quite over my colour selections for the Wirraway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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