Westland Dragonfly HC4 - LF Models 1/72

[CedB]

Three days since my last post? Sorry, been busy and on the Swift a bit.

 

On 22/02/2021 at 15:02, hendie said:

ooooh nice job Ced. Out of the box thinking too.  

Thanks hendie  

 

On 22/02/2021 at 15:56, Mr T said:

Some seriously small bits of PE there CeD and this brilliant work. The AVF/Britavia Dragonfly shown earlier forms the basis for the Whirlykits one I built for a GB last year. 

Thanks Mr T  

 

On 22/02/2021 at 16:02, keefr22 said:

 

That sounds just as painful as cutting.... !! 🤣

 

K

Nub sitting? Painful indeed!  

 

On 22/02/2021 at 18:12, heloman1 said:

I have something similar on the bench, the AMP Sycamore. The first chopper I ever flew in as and air Cadet. Good kit, some reservations but he only game in town. Incidentally, I got  a three and a half hour flight that day, got back to the camp/airfield just in time for lunch. The rest of the squadron was seriously jealous!

 

Colin

Thanks Colin

The Sycamore is on my list too but I have the S&M one on the wish list. 

There seem to be quite a few… ah, I see, you're in 1:48 eh?

 

On 22/02/2021 at 18:57, Jonners said:

They're all quite small though, aren't they? (Okay, I'll get my coat...)

On 22/02/2021 at 18:59, Jonners said:

Superb! Another one on my 'I'd-love-to-have-tried-it-but-would-probably-have-been-scared' wish list!

Jon

Thanks Jon - best not to mention size eh?  

 

On 22/02/2021 at 19:40, Martian said:

Huzzah! Ced's feeling better! 

 

Relieved of Mars 👽

Almost Martian, almost  

 

On 22/02/2021 at 20:12, perdu said:

Me too Colin, the first helicopter that flew into my conciousness was a large silver 'wind-up' toy Dragonfly that was on sale in FW Woolies and which I nagged my mom and dad into buying for me.

 

I proudly took it to school and flew it round with the clockwork wheels whizzing and rotors circulating.

 

The die was cast.

Great memory Bill.

The die was cast eh? I see what you did there

 

On 22/02/2021 at 21:31, The Spadgent said:

Oooh a flying piano!! Excellent. Lovely  and strange looking thing. For the PE I’d have taken a pic then popped each one off and eyeballed it.  I did like your way however although I would have chopped into my finger for sure cutting those little bits off. Do you need pilots btw. I have the ones from my hind a . I was waiting until I have more but there are a few so I can send em along if you like.

 

Johnny

Thanks Johnny  

No rush for pilots - this will be in the cabinet I think - but they'll be appreciated when you're ready.

 

On 22/02/2021 at 21:52, Marklo said:

Definitely some nice work on the console. Personally I  hate PE.

 

I’m  also kicking myself for missing all the possible jokes about @CedB showing us his chopper, but it’s just too late in the thread.

Thanks Mark  

You have to be quick on this forum - any chance of a chopper joke and they'll grab it - fnaar!

 

Some things have been painted, dark grey from the BM walk around but who knows?

 

[CedB]

I've been shying away from these for a while.

 

 

Three levers. Part #9.

I've chiselled a slot for them in the console.

Might be some help.

I'll paint them first I think.

Anything to delay the inevitable.

[Whofan]

On 21/02/2021 at 19:21, Mr T said:

This looks interesting. I am thinking of getting an RAF one to go with my Whirlykits RN one, so will be watching. 

Round the Horne brings back memories of Sunday lunch, I still laugh at it now. Amazing what Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddick got away with when they were speaking Polari. 

I've got two of them, still in the box, still taunting me - "We're vacform kits, we're vacform kits, you can't make us, na na ne na na !!"

 

And I've got the LF kit, imagine my surprise when I saw Ced seems to have finished everything else - (so many, I lost count) and started this one .

 

O, and Perdu, is yours the Mach 2 kit? Because I've got one of those, too, and it's still in the box - the difference is I'm taunting it, "you've got too much flash and I haven't got enough sandpaper "!!

[The Tomohawk Kid]

5 hours ago, Whofan said:

 the Mach 2 kit? Because I've got one of those, too, and it's still in the box - the difference is I'm taunting it, "you've got too much flash and I haven't got enough sandpaper "!!

 

 

1/72

 

- The Mach 2 kit is neither fish nor fowl in that it is hybrid of the S-51 and Dragonfly (closer to the S-51) but either way it needs surgery - plus the usual caveats that apply to Mach 2 kits. 

 

- The MPM kit is waaaay! overscale and not particulary accurate in outline either - I'm afraid surgery won't save this one.

 

- The Britavia/AVF kit is good for for the Dragonfly particulary the navalised version (it would need surgery to build it as a S-51 or HC-4). The biggest drawback to me, is its main component parts are acetate which is not a good modelling medium - that said I have seen some nicely built examples.

 

- The latest iterations of the Whirlykits models are very good, if one is comfortable with resin. As mentioned up thread they bought the Britavia/AVF moulds  and have improved the kit no end. Quite rightly they offer the miltary and civvy Dragonfly as two different kits. The better of the pair is the military kit - although for the HC-4 one needs the civvy boxing and undertake some mods.

 

- The IM Aerdrom kits came with two sets of fuselage clear styrene and 'solid' styrene and were fundemetally accurate and easy to build, if a little basic - If memory serves it was only possible to build the S-51 and civvy Dragonfly despite a military Dragonfly boxing - I stand to be corrected on that as I have not seen one for an epoch!

 

- The LF kit as being built in this thread is fundementally a S-51 (but good for the HC-4) and from what I can make out is the most accurate in 72 scale. I don't have and have not seen thier military version Dragonfly kit. But, I would venture that is equally as good. But, in the box it does look a modellers model - the detail for a short run kit is superb.

 

------

 

1/48

 

- If one is comfortable with resin and vac, the Belcher Bits kit is great and extremely accurate and it is just about possible to build any variant of the S-51 and Westland Dragonfly out the box.

 

- The Founderie Miniature kit is pretty good for a short run kit of its era if one is comfortable with all clear styrene fuselages halves and limited run kits. However, it has been welll and truly been overtaken by the AMP kits. Also its only really possible to build a S-51 out the box with out resort to the razor saw and Milliput.

 

- The AMP kits are probably the most accessible in this scale and are very good indeed - However, it is generally one variant per boxing, so one needs to be careful what is buying to match the type and Mk of machine one wants to build.

 

I'll be tagging along for this build too, looking good so far.

 

Tommo.

-

Edited February 26, 2021 by The Tomohawk Kid

[giemme]

3 hours ago, CedB said:

I'll paint them first I think.

Sounds like a sensible thing to do  

 

Ciao

[Whofan]

2 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

1/72

 

- The Mach 2 kit is neither fish nor fowl in that it is hybrid of the S-51 and Dragonfly (closer to the S-51) but either way it needs surgery - plus the usual caveats that apply to Mach 2 kits. 

 

- The MPM kit is waaaay! overscale and not particulary accurate in outline either - I'm afraid surgery won't save this one.

 

- The Britavia/AVF kit is good for for the Dragonfly particulary the navalised version (it would need surgery to build it as a S-51 or HC-4). The biggest drawback to me, is its main component parts are acetate which is not a good modelling medium - that said I have seen some nicely built examples.

 

- The latest iterations of the Whirlykits models are very good, if one is comfortable with resin. As mentioned up thread they bought the Britavia/AVF moulds  and have improved the kit no end. Quite rightly they offer the miltary and civvy Dragonfly as two different kits. The better of the pair is the military kit - although for the HC-4 one needs the civvy boxing and undertake some mods.

 

- The IM Aerdrom kits came with two sets of fuselage clear styrene and 'solid' styrene and were fundemetally accurate and easy to build, if a little basic - If memory serves it was only possible to build the S-51 and civvy Dragonfly despite a military Dragonfly boxing - I stand to be corrected on that as I have not seen one for an epoch!

 

- The LF kit as being built in this thread is fundementally a S-51 (but good for the HC-4) and from what I can make out is the most accurate in 72 scale. I don't have and have not seen thier military version Dragonfly kit. But, I would venture that is equally as good. But, in the box it does look a modellers model - the detail for a short run kit is superb.

 

------

 

1/48

 

- If one is comfortable with resin and vac, the Belcher Bits kit is great and extremely accutrate and it is just about possible to build any variant of the S-51 and Westland Dragonfly out the box.

 

- The Founderie Miniature kit is pretty good for a short run kit of its era if one is comfortable with all clear styrene fuselages halves and limited run kits. However, it has been welll and truly been overtaken by the AMP kits. Also its only really possible to build a S-51 out the box with out resort to the razor saw and Milliput.

 

- The AMP kits are probably the most accessible in this scale and are very good indeed - However, it is generally one variant per boxing, so one needs to be careful what is buying to match the type and Mk of machine one wants to build.

 

Tommo,

 

(forgive the familiarity, many thanks for the explanation regarding the various kits.

 

I am going to make the kits as part of my HMS Ocean project (my father's last ship before hee left the navy,serving as a Yeoman of signals from 1949 - 1953) to represent this Dragonfly that flew from Ocean during the Korean war;

 

 

The latter picture is from the book printed privately by HMS Ocean crew to record its Korean war deployments.  The serial number is VX 965.

 

It looks from the pictures to have been  a natural metal finish.

 

Now I have two whirlybird kits with the decals to match the one in the side on view, one Mach 2  and one LF all in 1/72, and one AMP in 1/48th, so I am fairly confident that I will be able to make something that looks pretty much like the dragonfly that flew off Ocean.

[The Tomohawk Kid]

9 minutes ago, Whofan said:

 

Tommo,

 

(forgive the familiarity, many thanks for the explanation regarding the various kits.

 

I am going to make the kits as part of my HMS Ocean project (my father's last ship before hee left the navy,serving as a Yeoman of signals from 1949 - 1953) to represent this Dragonfly that flew from Ocean during the Korean war;

 

 

The latter picture is from the book printed privately by HMS Ocean crew to record its Korean war deployments.  The serial number is VX 965.

 

It looks from the pictures to have been  a natural metal finish.

 

Now I have two whirlybird kits with the decals to match the one in the side on view, one Mach 2  and one LF all in 1/72, and one AMP in 1/48th, so I am fairly confident that I will be able to make something that looks pretty much like the dragonfly that flew off Ocean.

 

 

Its the rear fuselage as it sweeps up to the boom and the glazing arrangement on the Mach 2 kit thats not really correct for a military Dragonfly and its not quite right for the S-51 either, but a bit closer - if that makes sense. The grillage and exhaust arrangements will need altering too.

 

The Whirlykits (military variant) model is correct on those elements, so you should be good to go with that one.

 

Best of luck.

 

Tommo

Edited February 26, 2021 by The Tomohawk Kid

[perdu]

Lucky me,  I got this one.

 

As a gift so basically I have to do something morally honest with it

 

 

 

See the delightful windows already browning...

[Shalako]

I've been juggling with the MPM HO3S-1 for years!!!! But, now thanks to you Ced I'm having second thoughts about starting it again and HOPEFULLY finishing it without much work!!!

 

Good to see by the way, that your build is going well!!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[CedB]

Thanks John and Tomo for information and comments on the kits. Excellent stuff  

 

2 hours ago, giemme said:

Sounds like a sensible thing to do  

 

Ciao

I thought so but it didn't help me find the pinged one!  

 

44 minutes ago, Whofan said:

 

Tommo,

 

(forgive the familiarity, many thanks for the explanation regarding the various kits.

 

I am going to make the kits as part of my HMS Ocean project (my father's last ship before hee left the navy,serving as a Yeoman of signals from 1949 - 1953) to represent this Dragonfly that flew from Ocean during the Korean war;

 

 

The latter picture is from the book printed privately by HMS Ocean crew to record its Korean war deployments.  The serial number is VX 965.

 

It looks from the pictures to have been  a natural metal finish.

 

Now I have two whirlybird kits with the decals to match the one in the side on view, one Mach 2  and one LF all in 1/72, and one AMP in 1/48th, so I am fairly confident that I will be able to make something that looks pretty much like the dragonfly that flew off Ocean.

Nice photos John - I hope you don't mind if I pinch them?  

You may have missed the discussions on NMF during my Skua build but, in summary, everyone thought it was paint.

I think you can see it peeling in the first photo?

 

30 minutes ago, perdu said:

Lucky me,  I got this one.

 

As a gift so basically I have to do something morally honest with it

 

 

 

See the delightful windows already browning...

Browning windows? Yuk  

 

 

Well, as expected, I ended up singing Meatloaf with the levers:

 

 

🎶 Two out of three ain't bad 🎶

 

Oh look, the seat supports don't meet the floor

 

They've been pulled off and re-stuck.

I've also painted the seatbelts ready for fitting.

 

Seat cushion colours anyone?

The walk around on BM has light grey ones although they look a bit new.

 

[alt-92]

Proper tiny, Ced  

Bit like the PE levers I'm wrestling in the Valom Fokker F.VII  except I have six to deal with 😱

 

Some experience here with the LF decals, my P-39 in the Heller GB used those.

They're reverse-printed, so the ink is on top of the carrier film and you have to cut out the individual bits from the sheet.

I've used Klear as pre-decalling coat, and sealed them again afterwards - no problems.

 

 

 

 

[Whofan]

6 hours ago, CedB said:

Nice photos John - I hope you don't mind if I pinch them?  

You may have missed the discussions on NMF during my Skua build but, in summary, everyone thought it was paint.

I think you can see it peeling in the first photo?

Of course, Ced, I wish I had more photos from that period of time.

 

My Dad clearly didn't anticipate that I would have found it helpful some 67 years later if he'd photographed the dragonfly, sea furies and fireflies to a considerable extent!

 

Actually Ced, if you are thinking about the areas around the grilles in the first photo, I think that's fluid leakages.

 

What looks more like paint flaking, or wearing at different rates, look at the area just above and in front of the upper wheel strut in the second photo.

 

And thanks again Tommo for the additional information.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Whofan

[The Tomohawk Kid]

19 minutes ago, Whofan said:

And thanks again Tommo for the additional information.

 

 

 

 

If you compare the Mach 2 fuselage to the second image you posted up thread it will jump out at where the Mach 2 kit is lacking.  Correctable, of course it is - but, it just adds to the workload of a Mach 2 kit.

 

I too would doubt the machine has a natural metal finish, if it was a carrier bourne machine the last thing one would want on an airframe would be exposed metal.

 

Tommo.

Edited February 26, 2021 by The Tomohawk Kid

[Whofan]

4 minutes ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

 

If you compare the Mach 2 fuselage to the second image you posted up thread it will jump out at where the Mach 2 kit is lacking.  Correctable, of course it is - but, it just adds to the workload of a Mach 2 kit.

 

I too would doubt the machine has a natural metal finish, if it was carrier bourne machine the last thing one would want on an airframe would be exposed metal.

 

Tommo.

 

Metallic paint then? I must go back to Ced's Skua build.

[The Tomohawk Kid]

8 minutes ago, Whofan said:

 

Metallic paint then?

 

Indubitably.

 

Tommo.

[The Spadgent]

Lovely stuff Ced. Hells bells is like one of these two. Seems like everyone has one in the stash. 🤪🙃

 

Jont

[CedB]

19 hours ago, alt-92 said:

Proper tiny, Ced  

Bit like the PE levers I'm wrestling in the Valom Fokker F.VII  except I have six to deal with 😱

 

Some experience here with the LF decals, my P-39 in the Heller GB used those.

They're reverse-printed, so the ink is on top of the carrier film and you have to cut out the individual bits from the sheet.

I've used Klear as pre-decalling coat, and sealed them again afterwards - no problems.

 

Thanks alt, great information - I'll be careful!

 

18 hours ago, Whofan said:

Of course, Ced, I wish I had more photos from that period of time.

 

My Dad clearly didn't anticipate that I would have found it helpful some 67 years later if he'd photographed the dragonfly, sea furies and fireflies to a considerable extent!

 

Actually Ced, if you are thinking about the areas around the grilles in the first photo, I think that's fluid leakages.

 

What looks more like paint flaking, or wearing at different rates, look at the area just above and in front of the upper wheel strut in the second photo.

 

And thanks again Tommo for the additional information.

 

18 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

 

If you compare the Mach 2 fuselage to the second image you posted up thread it will jump out at where the Mach 2 kit is lacking.  Correctable, of course it is - but, it just adds to the workload of a Mach 2 kit.

 

I too would doubt the machine has a natural metal finish, if it was a carrier bourne machine the last thing one would want on an airframe would be exposed metal.

 

Tommo.

18 hours ago, Whofan said:

 

Metallic paint then? I must go back to Ced's Skua build.

18 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

Indubitably.

 

Tommo.

Thanks John and Tomo - I think I'll use the 'silber' paint, as I did on the Skua then  

 

14 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Lovely stuff Ced. Hells bells is like one of these two. Seems like everyone has one in the stash. 🤪🙃

 

Jont

Thanks Jont  

There was I frantic rush for them at SMW and I just got sort of caught in the excitement!

[CedB]

Internals finished, or at least the main bit:

 

 

 

Needs a bit of a wash I think.

 

Before I went much further I wanted to check the fuselage:

 

 

Bit of warpage but nothing too serious. The nose glass seems to fit OKish too:

 

 

…but I'll need to be careful on close up.

[heloman1]

Ouch with the fit of the front glazing, you might want to split it vertically and the across the lower frame, then add some spacing material.

 

Incidentally, my late father-in-law was part of the royal Marine contingent on Ocean during Korea. He was a bandsman, they were used to supplement the armourers loading rockets onto Sea Fury's

 

Colin

[CedB]

Thanks Colin - it's better than it looks in the photo so it should be OK  

 

 

Next step is the front wheel. I guess the idea is to get the angle of the dangle on the 'leg':

 

 

 

I hope that's right. We shall see.

 

Wheels cleaned up and his AK pasted:

 

[Brandy]

You're a better man than I to be able to work out what the instructions require for that nose wheel assembly!

Nicely done!

 

Ian

[CedB]

17 hours ago, Brandy said:

You're a better man than I to be able to work out what the instructions require for that nose wheel assembly!

Nicely done!

 

Ian

Thanks Ian

 

If you thought that was, er, puzzling then how about this:

 

 

Parts 45&6 aren't needed on XB452, look:

 

 

We shall see if I can solve the rest of the puzzle.

Step 'F'.

I wonder what the 'F' stands for?

[giemme]

I see you're up to a great deal of fiddling with this one,  Ced - respect!

 

Ciao 

[CedB]

Thanks Giorgio  

Short run, so to be expected. As usual, the main 'shape' is fine but there's excess plastic on some joins.

Like the nose:

 

 

You can see some on the top right in this shot, not just on the front but also in the join, which is pushing up the thin bits:

 

 

Once that was trimmed, the clear part fits pretty well:

 

 

 

Except for the stick up bit. I'll have to glue that separately later I think.

 

On to the other bits.

Part #15 does go inside - there are 'shelves' for it but no guidance on the forward/back location:

 

 

Then there's this bit:

 

 

It doesn't fit.

Look for excess plastic like this:

 

 

Chisel that off, sand the part sides, top and bottom and it gets better:

 

 

The walk around shows this should be flush:

 

 

…so more work needed.

 

The bulkhead doesn't fit either:

 

 

Again due to excess plastic. You can see it here:

 

 

I've had enough fiddling for this morning.

Later.

[AliGauld]

1 hour ago, CedB said:

 

 

Now that's just not fair.

 

Ye Gods, you've picked another beauty.

I know you'll beat it into submission and it'll be a gem but I'd just be cross-eyed and despairing at the moment.

Braveheart Sir.

 

Cheers,

Alistair