P 38 landing gear

[Starfighter]

Hi guys,

I've just started building my Tamiya 1/48 Lightning F/G and have a question regarding the colours of the landing gear. Tamiya state that they should be aluminium, but I've seen photos where the nose wheel leg and yoke appear to be a dull ( Neutral grey ? ) colour, especially on camouflaged airplanes.

Would anyone more knowledgeable on P 38's be able to give me some guidance regarding the actual colours ? Any help would be much appreciated. 

[72modeler]

That is correct- the gear struts could be either neutral grey or aluminum paint; although I think the camouflaged Lightnings had the neutral grey struts, I have seen photos of natural metal P-38's with them, as well. As always, if you can find a photo- that's the best reference. IIRC, the inner surfaces of the gear doors were aluminum in either scheme. See the links to the NASM's unrestored P-38J-10; note the neutral grey struts and aluminum gear doors visible in the second link. I know it's not the same variant as the Tamiya kit, but illustrates how a camouflaged example was finished. @Dana Bell might have more information on the subject. I saw this P-38 in person when it was in storage at Silverhill, MD, and other than being covered with dust, it looked just like it did when it was put into storage. The last link is to the excellent IPMS Stockholm article on US WW2 aircraft interiors- keep in mind it is an older article and newer information has come to light since it was written; just added it in case you didn't already have it.  I hope this will be helpful.

Mike

 

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-usa-virginia-herdon-national-air-and-space-museum-steven-f-udvar-hazy-149610252.html

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/lockheed-p-38j-10-lo-lightning/nasm_A19600295000

 

 

Dana Bell  was quoted in this article, so you can probably be assured  the information he supplied or was quoted was accurate at the time it was written.

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/interior-colours-of-us-aircraft-1941-45-part-i/

 

Me- if I were doing the early variant, I would tend to go with neutral grey struts and wheel bays, and aluminum nner gear door surfaces, unless I had a photo that showed aluminum struts.

[Starfighter]

Thanks for all the info and the links . . . It's much appreciated. As you mention possibly neutral grey wheel bay interiors, is it possible that they could have been aluminium, as Tamiya states , but with the landing gear in neutral grey ?

I ask as I've just done the first coat of aluminium on the bay roof and walls. It's not a problem as I can easily re paint if needed. The a/c I'm planning on doing is  " CG G " 267027 of the 55th. FG. Unfortunately apart from the decal instructions illustrations I have no photos of this machine.   

[72modeler]

4 hours ago, Starfighter said:

The a/c I'm planning on doing is  " CG G " 267027 of the 55th. FG.

That being an early Lightning, a P-38F, my thinking would be to go with neutral grey struts and wheel bays, with aluminum inner gear door surfaces; maybe later production Lightning variants, possibly H's had aluminum struts, wheel bays and inner door surfaces, as that was close to the time that camouflage paint was being discontinued. I have linked a photo of another well-known 55th FG P-38, 'Texas Ranger,' a P-38H, whose serial, 42-67074 is very close to your project. It is captioned as a P-38J in the photo, but is clearly not a J. That being said, you are most likely not going to find a photo or written confirmation of the wheel bay color, so you can flip  a coin. Wonder what reference Tamiya used for the aluminum paint wheel bay call out? I am guessing when the camouflage paint was discontinued at the factory, so was the use of neutral grey on the undercart, doors, and bays, as camouflaged J's can be seen with that finish and bare metal J/L's very seldom. If modelers  had been around in WW2 and had cameras, there would have been a lot more photos of wheels bays and landing gear! (Is this a great hobby or what? 

Mike

 

 

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/843

 

Want to be confused? Here's an earlier serialed P-38F that looks like it has aluminum painted struts and neutral grey inner door surfaces!

https://wingstracksguns.com/picture-gallery/historic-pictures/american-aircraft/fighters/lockheed-p-38-lightning/

 

Just in case you haven't looked here, go to the 55th FG and look at all the P-38 photos in the group gallery  to see how the undercart was painted. 

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/

[Starfighter]

Wow ! thanks for all that info, 72modeler, it's much appreciated. I think I'll go with the neutral grey  wheel bays and struts, as you can clearly see the landing gear is not aluminium, at least on the early a / c. At the end of the day I don't think that any ex P - 38 pilots are going to look at my model and say " That's the wrong colour " 😆.

Once again thanks for all your help . . . Much appreciated. .

[silberpferd]

It seems there is conflicting information regarding 42-67027 (which is a P-38H-5-LO), as USAAF records show it was lost in action on March 29th, 1944, serving with the 1st Fighter Group, 15th AAF, while flown by Merle B. Brown, and some sources give CG*G, flown by Gerald Brown with the 55th FG, 8th AAF, as being 42-67028. Of course, there is the possibility that #027 served first with the 55th FG and then was transfered to the 1st FG, but that would be a strange coincidence that the plane would have 2 different pilots named Brown with 2 different Air Forces.

 

To answer your initial question, from the research I had done a couple of years ago, it seems that up to the F model, landing gear legs and doors were painted aluminum, and they switched to NG with the G model, and switched back to aluminum during J production, a little bit after the planes were delivered unpainted, The first NMF Js had NG legs and doors. It is generally accepted that the walls of the wheelwells were the same color than the legs and the doors.

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, silberpferd said:

it seems that up to the F model, landing gear legs and doors were painted aluminum, and they switched to NG with the G model, and switched back to aluminum during J production,

Sounds plausible, but I have seen numerous photos of J's with NG struts, so anything is possible, as they say. I found a nice photo of a P-38F or G, linked below, and it clearly has NG struts, but without the serial, it's impossible to tell which variant it is to see if it fits what your research revealed. Do you have the sources you alluded to in your post? I am always in the market for P-38 reference material! Like the rest of us, @Starfighter will make the best guess he can based upon the available information. (Is this a great hobby, or what?)

Mike

 

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/535

 

Here's a G with aluminum painted struts!

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_P-38G-1-LO_Lightning_LOC_fsa.8d22581.jpg

 

..and here'm my favorite P-38J, 'Mama's Boy,' with NG  struts!

http://www.lonesentry.com/images/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p-38-lightning-mamas-boy.jpg

[Starfighter]

3 hours ago, silberpferd said:

It seems there is conflicting information regarding 42-67027 (which is a P-38H-5-LO), as USAAF records show it was lost in action on March 29th, 1944, serving with the 1st Fighter Group, 15th AAF, while flown by Merle B. Brown, and some sources give CG*G, flown by Gerald Brown with the 55th FG, 8th AAF, as being 42-67028. Of course, there is the possibility that #027 served first with the 55th FG and then was transfered to the 1st FG, but that would be a strange coincidence that the plane would have 2 different pilots named Brown with 2 different Air Forces.

 

To answer your initial question, from the research I had done a couple of years ago, it seems that up to the F model, landing gear legs and doors were painted aluminum, and they switched to NG with the G model, and switched back to aluminum during J production, a little bit after the planes were delivered unpainted, The first NMF Js had NG legs and doors. It is generally accepted that the walls of the wheelwells were the same color than the legs and the doors.

Thanks, silberpferd for that. I will now re paint my wheel bays neutral grey, as the airplane I am doing is a P 38H. Interesting info on 42-67027 and 42 - 67028, which are both listed as being  assigned to the 55th. FG  on the "Little Friends " website.  Could 42 - 6028 be a replacement airplane ?

[silberpferd]

46 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Sounds plausible, but I have seen numerous photos of J's with NG struts, so anything is possible, as they say. I found a nice photo of a P-38F or G, linked below, and it clearly has NG struts, but without the serial, it's impossible to tell which variant it is to see if it fits what your research revealed. Do you have the sources you alluded to in your post? I am always in the market for P-38 reference material! Like the rest of us, @Starfighter will make the best guess he can based upon the available information. (Is this a great hobby, or what?)

Mike

 

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/535

 

Here's a G with aluminum painted struts!

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_P-38G-1-LO_Lightning_LOC_fsa.8d22581.jpg

 

..and here'm my favorite P-38J, 'Mama's Boy,' with NG  struts!

http://www.lonesentry.com/images/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p-38-lightning-mamas-boy.jpg

My source is the study of a few pictures from my files

 

 

You are right about the P-38G-1-LO, so the first Gs had the legs painted aluminum as well, then.

 

And I agreed that the first NMF Js had NG legs

Edited February 21, 2021 by silberpferd
adding information

[72modeler]

@silberpferd,

 

You and I have the same research skills! I have almost all of the same photos saved in my P-38 folder! Thanks for taking the time to post yours- much appreciated! 

Mike