JG27 Emblem Question

[fishplanebeer]

I'm now at the stage of finally applying the decals to my Bf109F-4/Trop and have chosen 'Red 1', a machine from  2/JG27 flown by Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt from the Osprey book on Bf109 aces over North Africa.

 

As expected on the port side it carries the circular JG27 emblem of two figures (Lion/Tiger plus a black figure) facing left towards the prop, and the decals I have for this from Xtradecal are fine, except that on the starboard side their decal faces to the right so that it also points towards the prop. My question is should the emblem on the starboard side actually face to the left, in other words the same as on the port side and therefore pointing towards the tail? My reason for asking is that I have seen a rather out of focus period image of JG27's machines in North Africa and I think it shows the emblem on the starboard side pointing left towards the tail.

 

If it is the latter I then have the problem of sourcing the correctly orientated emblem but it would be good to know.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

 

[Jochen Barett]

2 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

I'm now at the stage of finally applying the decals to my Bf109F-4/Trop and have chosen 'Red 1', a machine from  2/JG27 flown by Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt from the Osprey book on Bf109 aces over North Africa.

 

As expected on the port side it carries the circular JG27 emblem of two figures (Lion/Tiger plus a black figure) facing left towards the prop, and the decals I have for this from Xtradecal are fine, except that on the starboard side their decal faces to the right so that it also points towards the prop. My question is should the emblem on the starboard side actually face to the left, in other words the same as on the port side and therefore pointing towards the tail? xxx

The "faces" are superimposed on a map of the continent of Africa, that does/can not look right if seen "in a mirror". (well yes, I have googled and found the Peddinghaus decals too, and as soon as I find a pic f a JG 27 plane with the Geschwaderwappen the other way around I will acknowledge the facts)

 

No evidence, just an example (scroll down a bit "Posté May 15, 2013" to see a B 109 E of JG 27 from the starboard side):

http://www.air-defense.net/forum/topic/16610-avions-de-la-seconde-guerre-mondiale/page/10/

 

Next

 

 

and another one https://i.imgur.com/8e8Ssp1.jpg

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jochen Barett

[fishplanebeer]

That's great, thank you for clarifying.

 

It seems the Xtradecal sheet is wrong and that both badges should have the figures looking to the left, so I now have to find another decal sheet that has them shown correctly.

 

In addition to Peddinghaus I've also just checked the Kits World Luftwaffe units sheets and they also has them incorrectly reversed so it seems this is a common error with all decal manufacturers in 72nd scale when it comes to the JG27 badge, in which case I suspect I've no option but to use the ones I have as I'm not up to producing my own decals as yet.

 

Regards

Colin.

[fishplanebeer]

Every photo and colour plate I've found on 'tinternet show the badge figures looking to the left so all the current kit decals in 72nd scale would be appear to be incorrect, the only solution being to buy 2 of a particular set which is way too costly just to get one decal!

 

Given how popular the Bf 109 is as a subject I'm surprised this question/issue has not been spotted before, or maybe it has and I've just not been able to find the relevant previous post(s)?

 

Regards

Colin.

[JackG]

Tamiya's 72nd version have the decals identical, both face left on the sheet, so that once on the model starboard side faces the tail end, and faces nose end on the port side.

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Jochen Barett]

14 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

Every photo and colour plate I've found on 'tinternet show the badge figures looking to the left so all the current kit decals in 72nd scale would be appear to be incorrect, the only solution being to buy 2 of a particular set which is way too costly just to get one decal!

 

Given how popular the Bf 109 is as a subject I'm surprised this question/issue has not been spotted before, or maybe it has and I've just not been able to find the relevant previous post(s)?

 

Regards

Colin.

 

In "my early days" I even put that Geschwaderwappen (taken from a Frog or Heller box) onto a Jo-Han yellow 14 without bothering wether the kill marks would request an F or a G2 (and ignoring the abscence of pictures (photographs) showing the Wappen on any of Marseille's 109F/G). I will have put the 87 octane triangle right (for an F), but not cut off the G2's sparkplug ventilation scoops.

 

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever!

[Crimea River]

I'm afraid that the only 1/72 scale spare decal sheet I have with unit crests on it does not have this particular one. Hope you can find one.

[fishplanebeer]

I do have the Tamiya Bf109E but unfortunately it's the E-3 version and not the E4-7 one with the trop filter and decals and trying to get a decal sheet, or any other replacement part from Tamiya is fraught at best, but thanks for highlighting this to me.

 

Regards

Colin.

[Toryu]

Interesting that many after-market decals don't depict the emblem correctly. It's a pity that some manufacturers seem not capable of proper research despite the considerable price of their products. Even ESCI decals of the early seventies got the emblem right.

 

I used the Avalon set for my Heller 109 which is exhibited in RFI here (WIP here). The Avalon 7009 decals are available through Hannants, or send me a personal message if you need just the emblems. There are two sizes - which size did Stahlschmidt's 109 have? My model has the small ones. I still got a few of the smaller and larger ones as shown below.

 

 

By the way, the 'Africa' emblem is not the JG 27 crest, but the symbol of I. Gruppe. It was already used during the Battle of Britain, long before the Geschwader embarked for North Africa, and referred to the German colonial period. The JG 27 crest itself shows three Messerschmitt silhouettes superimposed on a black cross (same as for III. Gruppe). II. Gruppe depicted the Berlin Bear with a crown.

 

Cheers, Michael

 

[Jochen Barett]

1 hour ago, Toryu said:

xx

By the way, the 'Africa' emblem is not the JG 27 crest, but the symbol of I. Gruppe.

xx

Thanks for reminding me/us. I/We should be at least as precise as we demand the decal manufacturers to be.

[fishplanebeer]

Thank you all for your replies, I just wish I had discovered the Avalon decal set instead of relying upon the Xtradecal and Print Scale sets that I bought as it would have been perfect for my needs and accurate.

 

As the model has been on the bench for a while and I cannot justify buying a new decal set or model just for one decal I went ahead with using the 'wrong facing' 1/JG27 emblem (smaller sized) and just hope that nobody is too critical, assuming they notice.

 

By the way it seems that JG27 eventually had all 3 Gruppe at this time involved in N.Africa (?) with 1/JG27 having the emblem in question, 11(2)/JG27 having the black bear and 111(3)/JG27 the shield style emblem with three yellow fighters against a black cross. I've never been 100% about Luftwaffe codes and colours and why some machines displayed the Gruppe emblem and/or as well as the Staffeln one but as my chosen subject has its number in Red I'm assuming it was part of 2 Staffeln.

 

Regards

Colin.