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Special High Altitude Spitfires


M20gull

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3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Beware of quoted ceilings.  They tend to be compared with the service ceiling: the maximum that an aircraft could reach until its climb rate fell below a useful value.  In my day, that could be 250ft/min.  This would have been lower in the 1940s.  The absolute ceiling is always somewhat higher, if you are prepared to just sit there.  The aircraft will keep getting lighter, for one thing.  I suspect that the hour above 45000ft was entirely spent trying to reach 50,000ft, and even then remember that altimeters work on pressure measurements and these are calibrated against a "standard atmosphere".  If was a low pressure day at altitude, the the Spitfire would not be as high (geometrically) as its instruments were saying.  This assumes the hand of the propagandist hasn't featured.  Really, this kind of quoted one-off value can only be interpreted as "very high indeed".

This is just what I have been reading about!  In Morgan and Shacklady the absolute ceiling for a Mk V with  four-blade propellor is about 4,000 ft higher than the service ceiling.  In the same book the four-blade propellor adds 1,200 ft which is more than my estimate.  Now we are getting closer to the 50,000 when allowing for tropical conditions.

 

I'm still learning!

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7 hours ago, M20gull said:

... Now we are getting closer to the 50,000 when allowing for tropical conditions...

50000 feet without a pressure cockpit or pressure suit must mean acute discomfort for the pilot. I'm not sure that anyone would do that voluntarily.

 

Another thing is that at extreme altitudes, the difference between maximum speed and stall speed becomes very close. The aircraft wallows around and is quite unmanageable.

 

/Finn

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3 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

50000 feet without a pressure cockpit or pressure suit must mean acute discomfort for the pilot. I'm not sure that anyone would do that voluntarily.

/Finn

And at a temperature of -67° f/-55°c.

 

Later, when the Mk IXs are being used by a number of squadrons and flying well beyond 40000ft the prospective pilots have to go for a test in a decompression chamber.  Not all of them pass the test, even that must have been an unpleasant experience.

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I have previously referenced this topic on the 12oclockhigh forum.  I just want to pick up a few points that are discussed there before moving on:

 

Was the 'high altitude flight' an official (sub)unit name?

I have not seen any suggestion of a formal name.  I will use the names given in the ORBs when I find them.

 

I thought the Flt only had 3 pilots in 1942 - F/O Reynolds, P/O Genders & P/O Gold.

This is in response to a claim credited to Alastair Forbes Wilson on 26.7.42 under 103 MU.  As we will see there were other pilots involved in 103 MU claims during 1942.

 

Montague James Rowland in Errol Martyn´s book For Your Tomorrow, Vol Three. He served in the High Altitude Flight from from 23 Aug 42 to 30 Nov 42 when he joined the Detached Flight (C Flight) of 94 Sqn.

And here is one more pilot.  I will cover Montague Rowland in a later post and the detached flight with 94 squadron.

 

Wendel Nelson apparently served with 600 Squadron on Beaufighters (and possibly with 6 Squadron on Hurricanes) before being wounded and posted to the MU on recovery

According to the ORB for 6 Squadron, Nelson joined 6 Squadron on 16.9.42 from 22 Personnel Transit Camp and left 14.10.42 on posting to 206 Group for disposal on test pilot duties.

 

We know BR202, which was lost after an engine failure on 6 September 1942. It was replaced by BR114.

I cannot see how BR202 would have been involved and I think we have established that the loss on 6 September was BR234.  BR202 was involved in the 170 gallon slipper tank testing in 1942 and did not arrive in North Africa until 1943

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On 21/02/2021 at 22:02, Dave Swindell said:

Wartime Standard Ships Oceans, Forts and Parts only lists Leaside Park, no Teeside Park, so It's likely Teeside is a misinterpretation of Leaside as suggested by @Geoffrey Sinclair

Likewise Kitsilano Park is listed, not Kitailana Park

 

Sifting my way through all this detail, so apologies if this next point has been made elsewhere, but, having taught at the University there, the spelling is 'Teesside' not as above. So Dave's speculation seems likely correct.

 

SD

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I have been very kindly sent two photos by a member of this forum.  They are from a private album, unattributed to an individual and undated but they are from a 6 Squadron source.  They show one of the Mk VI Spitfires BS134 with the aircraft letter ‘C’, so the previous attribution of ‘C’ to BS133 is thrown in to question. These photos show a lot of detail, especially the absence of the short cannon stub and the covering of the machine gun ports.  This looks to my eyes to show the high contrast one would expect of a desert scheme, though does not help with the the underside colour.

 

The repeated connection to 6 Squadron must be significant.  I have noted that some of the Spitfires are detached to Shandur during the period when the Vis were available to 103 MU. 6 squadron maintained a training flight at Shandur during this period so that may be the connection.
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I know I said I would not post photos but these are new ones.

Edited by M20gull
Removing spurious reference to cannon stub
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On 24/02/2021 at 20:32, M20gull said:

We now have an interesting challenge. In Brian Cull's excellent Fighters over the Aegean there are two photos of high-flying Spitfires. One is a familiar photo of BR114.  The other one is an unidentified Mk V that I am sure I have seen elsewhere but cannot find. I am not going to post a copy of the photo so I am stuck with discussing it without being able to illustrate what I am talking about, so bear with me.

 

What I see is a Mk V, apparently a special version as there is no visible cannon.  Compared to what we know about the special Spitfires this one has an apparently standard cowling over the oil tank, a three-blade prop and a radio mast.  All of this suggests to me a very early special and therefore probably BP985 but I certainly welcome input from people familiar with the photo.

 

Modelling this aircraft with its patchy rubbed-down paintwork would be quite something, once you've established a paint scheme.

Once again I came across something while looking for something else. The photo in question here is in Spitfire: the History (p250) and is described there as an early PRIV operated by 680 Squadron for sorties over Salonika modified with filled and polished  finish, Aboukir filter, extended wing tips and specially tuned engine. I am inclined to think that makes some sense as I cannot see any protruding guns and the fuselage roundel looks like a PR one. In the text Shacklady hints this could be BP882.  The first PRIVs arrive with 2 PRU in the Middle East in March 1942.

 

The Flypast article about Wendel Nelson refers to him reaching a height of 50,000 feet in a PRIV operated by Aboukir so maybe that's where the truth lies. In terms of timing Nelson arrives for test pilot duties in October 1942, while 680 comes into being in February 1943.

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Correction of serial number
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I do seem to be suffering from distractions.  I will get back to the special Spitfires soon.  I just want now to tick off the contribution from Alastair Forbes Wilson.  His claim of 26.7.42 is for a Ju88.  As it is a 103 MU claim I cannot shed much light on it but it is in a Spitfire which I have no evidence of being specially modified so I will move on.

 

Wilson reached ace status later in Italy including another Ju88.

 

I have used my ancestry subscription and found that Wilson was the son of a golf pro and returned to Sidcup, England after the war with his wife Rayon who had been a sister in the Queen Alexandra Nursing Service.

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September 1942 finds us with the 601 and 145 Spitfires gone (presumably back to 103 MU), the confirmed destruction of a Ju86 by Genders and Gold in BR234 and another on 6.9.42, and Reynolds claim on 10.9.42 presumably in BR114.  These flights are covered in the Aeroplane Spotter article and elsewhere.

 

There is a further claim for 103 MU in September.  This is for a shared claim on 3.9.42 for a Cant Z 1007bis with Richard Webb RNZAF

in BR487 and Ross in BR586.  This pair of aircraft, both diversions from the Nigerstown aircraft intended for Australia, are successful together in December with 94 squadron. BR487 is the Striker seen previously with 145 squadron.

 

The next explicit reference I have found in the squadron ORBs is the transfer of the "Spitfire detachment at Shandur" to 94 squadron on 30 November.  The detachment is referenced online as the Delta Defence Flight or Heliopolis Defence Flight.  After the transfer 94 squadron operate 4 Spitfires: BR487/BR586 and our old friend BP985 with EP192.

 

While with 94 squadron there is a claim  for a Ju88 on 20.12.42 shared by F/Lt Webb in BR487 and F/O Montague Rowland in BR586. 

 

The 94 squadron Spitfires are also flown in December by Eric Dicks-Sherwood and P/O Aylott.

 

In January Rowland and Webb are posted to 119MU for test pilot duties.  119MU is based at RAF Shaibah in Basra, Iraq. Shaibah seems to have been used as a base for planes heading to Russia as well as being a stop on the ferry route to India.

 

Also in January the Spitfire attachment with 94 squadron is transferred to 238 Squadron.

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Adding link to 145 squadron
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238 squadron are not very busy.  The Hurricanes are used mostly for local  convoy protection and rarely encounter enemy aircraft.  The 3 Spitfires don't do much either but two scrambles confirm the continuation of the Striker/Marker operation.

 

On 9.2.43 BR487 and BR586 are scrambled together.  Dicks-Sherwood in BR487 expends all of his ammunition without success against a Ju88. 238 (unusually) record ammo usage and this shows 1200 rounds, i.e. the maximum for four machine guns.

 

On 27.3.43 BR586 is scrambled alone, piloted by CJ Aylott. A Ju88 is successfully brought down for the expense of 80 20mm rounds only, which is consistent with 586 being a Marker.

 

In April the pilots are posted to 274 squadron in Libya and carry on the interceptor role in a Hurricane squadron, though now with Spitfires not recorded as anything special. 

 

238's ORB states that the Spitfires are moved to "form a new Squadron" with no more detail than that. I've not found them yet.

 

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Google continues to be interesting. BR487 shows up as a 417RCAF aircraft based in Tunisia according to Tamiya.  I've checked 417's ORB for April, May and June.  They have BR470 and BR483 but not BR487 and I now see from  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234997362-supermarine-spitfire-mkvb-trop/  that this has been now identifed as BR483.

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The New Zealander Montague James Rowland comes back from Iraq and i have a note that he is credited with another claim for a Ju88 damaged under 103MU on 12.6.43.  He shortly moves to 1435 squadron based in Malta.  On 10.7.43, the first day of the invasion of Sicily, he is shot down and killed by a Me109 during an evening sortie over Syracuse. Most internet references have him down as flying with 435 squadron, presumably because that is how he is recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

 

The Rhodesian Eric Dicks-Sherwood was a Malta ace with 603 squadron before joining the high altitude flight.  His career is well covered by this site, http://www.cieldegloire.com/002_raf_dicks-sherwood_e_s.php (sorry it’s in French). It’s not completely accurate but close enough.  By July he is flying with 92 squadron.  On 10.7.43, like Rowland, he is flying over Sicily. Like Rowland he is shot down in to the sea, though this time by AA fire.  Unlike Rowland he baled out and was picked up by a fishing boat. He turns up at the docks when the squadron is assembling for the move to Sicily on the 13th! After one more claim he becomes an instructor, returning to Rhodesia and eventually the Southern Rhodesia Air Force.

 

One final biography for this stage for Mike Cooper-Slipper who is credited with a Ju88 damaged on 15.6.43 while with 103MU http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/as-cooper-slipper.htm

 

 

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The Spitfires with 94/238 squadron mostly seem to meet Ju88s.  The Luftwaffe data shows that there were still Ju86s on strength throughout the winter of 42/43 and the numbers increase in April and May.  Of course, they may not have been serviceable for operations or may have been used elsewhere in the Med.

 

The Australian squadron 451 does see a lot of Ju86s in the spring of 1943 but mostly from a long distance away!

 

451 squadron are flying Hurricanes in February 1943 and move to Idku on 7.2.43 when four pilots travel to LG175 to fly Spitfires to Idku. Three Vc are held to be reserved for scrambling after high-flying high performance reconnaissance aircraft.

 

In February, BP985 is listed with BP987. 451 includes names that will become familiar:  H R Rowlands, J K Bann, A F Arnel, W K Watts and G H Purdy.  In March, 451 operates BP985 with BP981and BP987.  BP985's last op with 451 is on 7.3.43 leaving just BP981 and BP987, both of which had flown with 145 squadron in 1942.  As they served with an Australian squadron both of these aircraft are listed on the adf-serials website:

 

BP981    Mk.Vc T (Spec)  ff 07-04-42 39 MU 08-04-42, 47MU 17-04-42, SS485 09-05-42  Middle East. 01-08-43 MU 103MU modified with extended wing tips, RR Merlin two stage superchargers and four blade prop.for high altitude interceptions at Aboukir. 451 Sqn. crs into sea 18 miles north of Rosetta, Egypt 02/04/43.

BP987    Mk.Vc   ff 11-04-42, 6 MU 12-04-42, 82MU 17-04-42, SS483 09-05-42 Middle East. Sudan 01-08-43. SOC 29-08-46.


On 23.3.43 both are ordered back so one would assume must have R/T. On op on 26.3.43 BP981 (A/C “J”) and BP987 both use 20mm and .303 ammo.  On 27.3.43 BP981 and BP987 scrambled to intercept a hostile that was shot down by 238 squadron (this was Aylott’s JU88).  BP981 disappears in to a cloud bank and is lost with pilot (P/O J A Cox) on 2.4.43. 

 

Although the ADF data suggests that BP981 is a Special Spitfire it is not obvious from the operational history.

 

In April add BR114 and BR363.  451 squadron take part in trials of the Hawker Typhoon and this is covered on the ADF site, which includes the following references to the Spitfires: "At this time, 451 Sqn was flying Hurricane IIcs along with a small flight of three “Marker” Spitfire Mk Vs on loan from 103MU*. The latter were to be used to intercept high flying enemy aircraft that were, at that time, performing reconnaissance missions over Alexandria, Egypt. ...*Two of these were BR114 and BR363. (These “Markers” were specially modified Spitfire Vs that could fly to a height of 40000 ft)."

 

BR363 and BR114 fly together on 3.5.43 and BR114 is ordered to pancake, followed by BR363. On 5.5.43 one of them (unidentified) is called the Marker. On 11.5.43 the Marker pilot blacks out through lack of oxygen (after engine trouble) and eventually levels out at 12,000ft, the Special spitfire has to follow having no R/T.  BR114 is not seen again in 451.

 

In May BP987 and BR363 transfer to 123 squadron and ER504 is added. BR363 is not listed after August.

 

In July 451 Squadron start receiving Mk Vs and on 19.7.43 MA Kemp is flying Vc JK115 “nothing seen of E/A which dived on to deck when attacked by Spitfires from 103 MU”.  

 

The only aircraft that I have seen pictured with 451 Squadron from this list is BR114, which I will come to next.

 

 

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BR114

 

This is one the most celebrated specials and luckily one of the most photographed.  It's been covered well on the topic: spitfire-mkvc-103-mu-at-aboukir and the modifications have been discussed on this topic in a detailed post from @Dave Swindell here.

 

The first photo is the one included in the Aeroplane Spotter article.  It is not possible to see the serial so there is no guarantee that, just because the article says it is BR114, it is BR114.  The main connection I can see is that 'Spitfire: the History' has this down as a presentation airframe called Irene.  In the picture there is a name written just in front of the open cockpit door which looks to me like Irene.  So if BR114 is Irene then this photo could be BR114.   There is not much to be judged from this partial photo but it is supposed to be from the period when Reynolds was reaching the heights.

 

The next batch is the ones where BR114 has the code 'B' and the one on the Joe Willis site with 'C' in the background.  I think this has to be a bit later as the Mk VIs do not arrive in Africa until October.  BR114 is in a non-standard paint scheme which looks like desert on the top. I have seen various suggestions for underside; personally I cannot see why it would be anything other than Azure.  BR114 had a crash landing in July so could easily have been repainted twice and should have been in desert anyway.  None of that guarantees it so other options might make as much sense.  The filler/paint on the panel joins has been suggested as white, silver or brick red; again any of those could be right.

 

The last photo is this one with 451 squadron.  The airframe has been repainted and looks very tidy, though I think it is in 'B' pattern which I would not expect for a Mk V.  It even has a stencil on the First Aid hatch.  The pilots lounging around are Ken Watts and Kirk Bann, both of who flew this plane in May 1943.  In my previous post I referred to BR114 flying regularly with BR363 during this period.  Based on the photo you would have to conclude that BR114 was the Striker (machine guns, no radio mast) making BR363 a Marker.  BR363 flies a few missions in April without another Spitfire but is accompanied by a pair of Hurricanes instead.  BR114 has had some visible modifications since the previous batch of photos.  

 

I note from the attempted interceptions with 451 squadron that they do not get close to altitude needed to combat the Ju86s.  This could be just be because the planes were never in the right place.  It takes 20 minutes to reach the ceiling so directions need to be good; I wonder if 103 MU detuned the specials for operating with squadrons so they needed less maintenance at the expense of perfomance (no evidence for this; just speculating).

 

It seems that what was needed now was the extra performance of the Mk IX.  With victory in Tunisia Mk IXs start arriving in North Africa in numbers.  Some of these find their way to 103 MU and start to be used for high altitude intereceptions around the Eastern Mediterranean.

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15 hours ago, M20gull said:

BR114 is in a non-standard paint scheme which looks like desert on the top

It's not non standard, it's B scheme that's been heavily filled/overpainted in places. The pattern is clearly discernible in views of the port side fuselage, and on the wings on the view from astern

15 hours ago, M20gull said:

The last photo is this one with 451 squadron.  The airframe has been repainted and looks very tidy, though I think it is in 'B' pattern which I would not expect for a Mk V. 

I don't know why you wouldn't expect B scheme on a Mk V, it was in use throughout the Mk V production, though possibly not as predominant as the A scheme.

BS133 C is B scheme.

The photoshoot of Ian Gleed's and 2 601sqn Mk V's show Gleed's and one of the 601 Mk V's in B scheme.

There's other photo's out there if you go looking.

16 hours ago, M20gull said:

It is not possible to see the serial so there is no guarantee that, just because the article says it is BR114, it is BR114.

It's not 100% guaranteed, but that small bent pipe above the exhaust appears to be unique to BR114 and is visible in photos where the serial is visible, so I'd say the chances of it being another airframe are fairly remote.

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27 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

It's not non standard, it's B scheme that's been heavily filled/overpainted in places. The pattern is clearly discernible in views of the port side fuselage, and on the wings on the view from astern

I don't know why you wouldn't expect B scheme on a Mk V, it was in use throughout the Mk V production, though possibly not as predominant as the A scheme.

BS133 C is B scheme.

The photoshoot of Ian Gleed's and 2 601sqn Mk V's show Gleed's and one of the 601 Mk V's in B scheme.

There's other photo's out there if you go looking.

It's not 100% guaranteed, but that small bent pipe above the exhaust appears to be unique to BR114 and is visible in photos where the serial is visible, so I'd say the chances of it being another airframe are fairly remote.

I agree with your interpretation of my "non-standard" comment. I was using a description I had seen elsewhere.  

 

In "Camouflage and markings" it says that the B scheme was dropped in January 1941 for new airframes so I was not expecting many, if any, Vs to have it. 

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Not mentioned, at least recently, is that the aircraft shown in the Aeroplane Spotter, has a 'B' type roundel on the fuselage.

How does this date the photo in relation to the others?  Once the Ju86 'threat' had passed, survivors were converted to the PR role, for which B type was the norm, yet the barrels of the machine guns are clearly visible.....

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On 17/02/2021 at 14:46, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

Then again, from the Ministry of Aircraft Production Monthly Statistical Bulletins.  Building up stocks of spare engines before the aircraft arrived.

 

February 1943 report Merlin 61 Allocated for Shipment Abroad, 12 in September 1942, 6 in October, 10 in November, 17 in December, 12 in January 1943, total 57.  Note the word Allocated.
March 1943, column now titled Merlin 61, 63, same numbers as February, plus 6 in March.  So now a total of 63 allocated.
April 1943 was an abbreviated report, no export tables.
May 1943 Engines shipped or awaiting shipment abroad 1 January 1941 to 31 May 1943, sixty four Merlin 61, 63.

 

Merln 45, 46, 47 allocations for shipment abroad began in November 1941, with 9, then 20 in December.  Total for 1 January 1941 to 31 May 1943 was 378 Merlin 46, 46, 50, 55, 56 and 2 Merlin 47 shipped or awaiting shipment.

 

Until the October 1942 report the Spitfire export tables do not give mark number information.  Ignoring earlier marks,
25 Spitfire, mark unspecified, exported in five weeks ended 2 October 1942, also note 6 mark VI during this period
14 Spitfire, mark unspecified, exported in four weeks ended 30 October 1942
No mark IX Spitfire exported in five weeks ended 4 December 1942.
52 Spitfire IX, exported in four weeks ended 1 January 1943
38 Spitfire IX, exported in four weeks ended 29 January 1943

 

I think December 1942 did see the first mark IX exports.

 

 

On 17/02/2021 at 15:06, Graham Boak said:

The 23rd March saw the first allocation of Mk.IXs to 92 and 145 Squadron in the Western Desert Air Force.  An order of battle for 24th March also has them with 72 and 81 Sq in Tunisia.  Given time for assembly, delivery etc these dates appear compatible.  Source Vic Flintham's Call to Arms, Hikoki 2020.

As we move on Mk IXs I wanted to go back to these two posts about the exports to North Africa.  92 and 145 squadron were in Tunisia in March. This is consistent with delivery from Gibraltar through Algeria.  Looking at the production database there are 55 airframes shipped in December that end up in Gibraltar.  No IXs are shipped via Takoradi, but Vs continue to be until July 1943; I will check but I assume these are used to replace Hurricanes in the Egypt squadrons, such as 451.

 

So most IXs that end up in Aboukir will come through North Africa or the Mediterranean after May 1943. I have found some exceptions which do not and will look further. BS342 and BS343 are shipped on the Dutch ship Algenib in December 1942 and end up in Suez in March 1943. I'm still looking at this.

 

I think my conclusion is that while IXs were in Africa from early 1943 only a very small number would have been in Egypt before June.

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3 hours ago, Denford said:

Not mentioned, at least recently, is that the aircraft shown in the Aeroplane Spotter, has a 'B' type roundel on the fuselage.

How does this date the photo in relation to the others?  Once the Ju86 'threat' had passed, survivors were converted to the PR role, for which B type was the norm, yet the barrels of the machine guns are clearly visible.....

I don't think we have mentioned the B roundel on this topic yet and it is, no doubt, a challenging point.  Although survivors were converted to PR roles I have only seen reference to this in respect of the Mk VIs.  BR114 is still in the interceptor role as late as May 1943 with 451 squadron.

 

So why the B roundel? I don't know. We know that BR114 has a normal roundel in its two other schemes and we are reasonably confident that this is BR114. We do not have photos of the other Mk V interceptors to corroborate whether it was consistently applied during the summer of 1942 by 103MU. I cannot immediately see that it gives any advantage in high level interceptions for a plane that is in desert camouflage.

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I can only suggest that the roundel was changed to indicate that the aircraft now belonged to a PR unit: a simpler solution than a full repaint.

And the guns?  Well presumably retained for self defense.

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Sorry, got distracted again.  I had used up all my orders at the National Archives.  I was waiting for some data on BS342 (which I now have - see below).  In the meantime I thought I would look for some B pattern Mk Vs and stumbled over the Galitzine story in Alfred Price's book, spotted a reference to Jimmy Nelson and before you know it I am reading about Vulcans and Shackletons.  Jimmy Nelson's story is definitely going to feature when we get to Northolt.

 

So BS342.  BS342 data includes "Algenib 20-12-42 Alexandria 31-12-42 Suez 17-3-43".  The only other Spitfire with an Algenib reference that I have found is BS343 which includes "Algenib 31-12-42 Suez 17-3-43 Middle East 31-3-43"

 

Taking advantage of the National Archives shipping register I find for the Algenib:

 

Glasgow - arrived 31.12.42 sailed 3.1.43

Port Sudan - arrived 12.3.43, sailed 14.3.43

Suez - arrived 31.3.43, sailed 2.4.43

 

On 17.3.93 it looks like it was trying to unload at Suez but "no tugs available".  In April Algenib calls at Port Sudan (again), Suez, Port Said (twice), Alexandria, Suez (again) and Aden before heading to Mauritius.

 

Make of that what you will but it looks like BS342 and BS343 arrive in Egypt in April 1943.

 

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